Discussion beedrill new greninja?

[treyh37]

looking at the translations for SM4 (our crimson invasion) I saw kakuna with an attack that's essentially the same as water duplicates frogadier, which means if we have any decent beedrills it could be a good deck.

looking at the beedrill in the set is kinda meh, but the Evolutions beedrill has potential, its second attack is 40 for each beedrill you have in play to one poke (active or bench) which means turn two we could be hitting up to 160 on to a bench sitter or an evo they are working on setting up.

I know it didn't see play when we had forest but that's mostly cause we had better grass options.

so thoughts?

 

[mordacazir]

It will probably not be a new greninja. It's just a little bit lackluster because you will probably get knocked out every turn and that will bring down your damage super fast.

 

[Trainer Josh]

Nothing will ever replace Greninja, let's not kid ourselves.

 

[AuraJackle]

In expanded you have access to both mew ex and dimension valley to both attack for less energy and keep the damage high that's the best usage for beedril. But it's nothing like Greninja outside of sniping and mid evolutions effect

 

[josie0001]

Greninja BREAK is what makes greninja so good. There won't be a Beedrill BREAK printed, so unless they're planning a Beedrill GX, I can't see this deck doing anything, especially considering you need 2 energies to use its sniping attack. Now, print a Beedrill GX and you definitely have my attention.

 

[jessalakasam]

Greninja BREAK is what makes greninja so good. There won't be a Beedrill BREAK printed, so unless they're planning a Beedrill GX, I can't see this deck doing anything, especially considering you need 2 energies to use its sniping attack. Now, print a Beedrill GX and you definitely have my attention.

Keep in mind though, Beedrill GX wouldn't boost Beedrills damage output

 

[josie0001]

No, you're right. I'm saying a halfway decent Beedrill GX would make the one from Evolutions obsolete and would give a good payoff card for flooding your bench with Kakunas. Evolutions Beedrill just isn't good enough to warrant going thru all that trouble.

 

[CaptZero]

No, you're right. I'm saying a halfway decent Beedrill GX would make the one from Evolutions obsolete and would give a good payoff card for flooding your bench with Kakunas. Evolutions Beedrill just isn't good enough to warrant going thru all that trouble.

A no drawback 160 snipe isn't worth it?

 

[arulz]

A no drawback 160 snipe isn't worth it?

It's not really a 160 snipe though. To have all 4 beedrill up means you need none of your kakunas or bedrills to be prized, killed, or discarded, and all of them have to be fully evolved on your bench.

An 80-120 damage snipe (usually being 80) is much more likely, as his low HP will make him hard to keep alive.

That being said, counter energy would be fantastic in this deck, as you'll most likely be playing from behind the whole game! Which also means you'll be able to use counter catcher fairly effectively, perhaps continually pulling out a heavy pokemon to stall while sniping their bench line.

The more I think about it the more awesome it sounds...

 

[CaptZero]

It's not really a 160 snipe though. To have all 4 beedrill up means you need none of your kakunas or bedrills to be prized, killed, or discarded, and all of them have to be fully evolved on your bench.

An 80-120 damage snipe (usually being 80) is much more likely, as his low HP will make him hard to keep alive.

That being said, counter energy would be fantastic in this deck, as you'll most likely be playing from behind the whole game! Which also means you'll be able to use counter catcher fairly effectively, perhaps continually pulling out a heavy pokemon to stall while sniping their bench line.

The more I think about it the more awesome it sounds...

An 80-120 snipe with no drawbacks is pretty solid too, and if you CAN get out 4 Beedrill... It's also possible to pull off Kakuna T1-T2 with Wally.

 

[josie0001]

It's pretty late here, so that may have come off as more dismissive and argumentative than I meant it, but there's still some truth to it. The drawback is inherent in the difficulty level of actually achieving the perfect board state to perform the attack.

Let's break it down. As any Greninja player can attest to, simply managing to get 3 Frogs on the bench on T2 isn't exactly the easiest thing in the world. You can start the wrong Poke, you don't have a ball search card in hand or the energy card to perform the attack, or even worse you have multiple Frogs in your hand or multiple copies in your prizes. Luckily, you try to Bubble with Froakie to try and buy a turn or 2. I don't think there's a Weedle with that kind of stall potential, but, for arguments sake, let's just say there is, and let's imagine you hit the nuts and T2 you get Kakuna, energy, and flood your bench.

Next turn, assuming your active Kakuna didn't get knocked out of course, you then have to find 4 Beedrill. Again, as a Frogs players myself, I've gotten 4 ninjas out at once before, but it's rare, VERY rare, and if you do, unless you prize all your BREAKS, you're gonna win. Simple as that. Anyway tho, so let's say you are the luckiest person on the planet and get all your kakunas evolved into Beedrills, attach a 2nd energy to your active (Greninja only needs 1 energy to use 2 different attacks), then you can snipe for 160. What exactly are we hoping to hit with that? Not a Shaymin. Not a Lele. A Marshadow maybe? Then next turn, assuming your 120 HP stage 2 didn't get knocked out, you can do it again. So you're 2 shot-sniping.

Let's look at it another way. Greninja is tough to set-up, but once you do, as the game goes longer, your chances of winning grow exponentially. You can set up OHKOs with Shuriken, even take 4 prizes in a turn.

With Beedrill, you have the same laborious set up, but without the benefit of a hitting heads on a Bubble flip, without the benefit of 2 different 1 energy attacks, without the benefit of an insanely powerful BREAK with a broken ability, without even the benefit of Splash Energy, so that when you start losing Pokes (which you will, almost every turn), you get to keep rebuilding your army over and over.

It just isn't worth it, unless they print some busted new Beedrill. Just my opinion tho.