Ancient Origins [8/15, aka Bandit Ring]

Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Water Pokémon Master, May 4, 2015.

  1. asdjklghty -------------
    asdjklghty

    Member

    Wow. A reprint of Vileplume from Undaunted? I knew it was coming. I noticed some Abilities affect both players now. Is the TCG going back to the old days? I hope not.
     


  2. TheStrictNein Has tried turning it off and on again
    TheStrictNein

    Member

    Yeah, with Paint Roller Ninetails went from having potential in MRay decks to being laughable, unless you're running Vileplume it seems.
     
    GadgetJax likes this.
  3. DKQuagmire Who else but Quagsire?
    DKQuagmire

    Member

    Currently looking through google Cawthorns original deck list for "The truth"

    Lots of HP. Blissey Prime.
    Damage manipulation. Reuiniclus.
    Heavy hitting attacker. Donphan prime. Zekrom and Suicune/Entei legend
    Basic Pokemon into play. Pichu and Pokemon Collector
    hand reshuffle. Cleffa and oaks new theory.
    Return Pokemon to the hand/ deck. Seeker

    Taking all this and making a deck list using current cards, I came up with a list of alternative cards to use.
    Lots of of HP. Wailord EX.
    Damage manipulation. Dusknoir from Flash fire.
    Heavy hitting attacker. Primal Groudon EX. Any mega Rayquaza. Zekrom is still around, but not as good now.
    Basic Pokemon into play. Emolga from legendary treasures/ Dragons assaulted, and Pokemon fan club
    Hand reshuffle. Shauna. Colress. the unreleased Ace Trainer card
    Returning Pokemon to hand/ deck. Cassius. AZ

    Other cards to mention which can be replaced are: Copycat, becomes Battle reporter. Sages training could become. Team Magma/ Aqua Grunt, since you could discard your rare candies and other items once your lock is up.
    also. I feel like this kind of deck, could make use of Maxie and Archies cards that put stage 1 and 2 Pokemon into play from the discard pile. Turn 1 Primal Groudon on the bench anyone?
     
  4. TheStrictNein Has tried turning it off and on again
    TheStrictNein

    Member

    Worth mentioning for Heavy hitter is Machamp EX. Can be powered up as an Outrage attacker.
     
    DKQuagmire likes this.
  5. dollyholly Aspiring Trainer
    dollyholly

    Member

    I was using venonats and fletchlings as examples in regards to previous sets' filler cards and I had missed the announcement of Ampharos. I hope that you hadn't completely missed my point because of an eagerness to fault-point my diatribe.
     
  6. Luxray Aspiring Trainer
    Luxray

    Member


    Use Wobbuffet Crobat.
     
    GadgetJax likes this.
  7. Sigh, speaking of things repeating itself we get item lock Vileplume. It might be an unpopular opinion, but what a waste. :(

    Then we have Jolteon. Heh, that's actually kind of funny. I wouldn't mind seeing this for other typings.

    Paint Roller...well a stadium destroyer with a card draw. Okay I guess if your opponent is using a stadium. Except of course Vileplume potentially locks it up...sigh. I think the return is ridiculous.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Materious17 Pokemon Geologist
    Materious17

    Member

    With that new vileplume, I can see the return of VVV (Vanilluxe, Vileplume, Victini) or some variation of it in expanded format. I missed that deck.

    I think Articuno EX would work faster than Vanilluxe but being an EX and his attack costs significantly more to use could pose problems for the lock.
     
  9. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

    Member

    How long have you been playing: you do realize the TCG already has gone back to the old days?

    1. At the start of the BW-era they reverted to the original first turn rules (more or less). Unfortunately they also returned to not planning out attacks to avoid issues with said rules, which is why the XY-era rules added a "no attacking T1" policy. It was the quick fix to avoid how you had to run only the largest cards to avoid getting donked and even that was no guarantee if your opponent opened with your Weakness.
    2. Speaking of Weakness, the "x2" Weakness was all but abandoned during the DP-era, probably because it is horribly unbalancing (damage multipliers tend to do that in an otherwise simple system). The Rock-Paper-Scissors style set-up only works when each Type is equally viable and played, something the TCG has rarely ever experienced. Not sure why they went back to "x2", other than to try and be more faithful to the video games but even if the video games are balanced in that way (I don't think they are). the TCG is simply not the video games nor can it be.
    3. We are back to "dueling solitaire" for many match-ups. This was an issue in the pre-Modified days of the game, when Unlimited was the Standard Format. Most decks were donk decks or control decks, where if you got your proper set-up you either won that turn or all but won that turn. It was really terrible.
    I want the game to improve, but its gotten worse in a lot of areas since its high points (kind of why I refer to certain periods as high points).

    So getting to the actual new cards, in reverse order:

    Paint Roller - On the plus side, an effect that would otherwise be too weak gets a simple draw bonus to hopefully find that happy medium; now decks have an option to go without Stadiums if they really wish to while still being able to deal with opposing Stadiums. We've had attackers for that in the past, but they also don't tend to work out the best. My concerns are obvious; Stadiums dealing with Stadiums has been a means of keeping Stadiums from being too weak and I kind of like the idea of them being a necessary part of decks. Bizarre and unrealistic suggestion, but I'd like to see the Pokémon TCG handle them the way Chaotic handled its equivalent cards; "Locations" were a separate "sub-deck" with effects that could change the Location from the current one. A bit more to it, but that should be enough for those that have never even heard of (let alone played) Chaotic to have an idea of it. The other concern is Item lock as well as Item competition could easily keep the card from seeing any real play.

    Jolteon - Interesting concept. Worried that it either won't work to curb Lightning Weak powerhouses (besides the Colorless M Rayquaza-EX, there is still Yveltal-EX plus the pending Lugia-EX in Ancient Origins) or will be too much. Also worried they didn't consider the full ramifications as this could simply put Fighting-Types and/or Seismitoad-EX firmly back on top.

    Vileplume - I love my black rose @};- but kind of sick of "lock" effects right now thanks to Garbotoxin and Quaking Punch (even when they are not in the same deck). Glad it hits both players and is on a Stage 2 (Basic or Stage 1 would be overpowered), but the format isn't very friendly to Stage 2s right now and unlike when we last had a card like this, now we have Lysandre, Lysandre's Trump Card and Wobboffet (PHF). The first should be obvious; Vileplume won't be safe on the Bench (especially with current damage output, even sans Items). The third is probably obvious as well; Wobbuffet turns off Abilities so promote it, use Items, then if possible get it out of the Active slot and attack. This isn't easy to fit into all decks, but for many its adding in a TecH Basic. The middle option might seem confusing, but part of a lock deck is stalling and with LTC, you don't have to worry as much about decking out.
     
  10. Metalizard Aspiring Trainer
    Metalizard

    Member

    And just like that, Colorless M-Ray just got 3 counters (all of these cards counter it in some way - with Vileplume, there are no Spirit Links for anybody).

    @Pikachu6319 Now that you mentioned that... the three original eeveelutions usually have identical abilities or attacks... I'm guessing that maybe Flareon and Vaporeon have similar abilities that turn other Stage 1's into Fire and Water types, respectively...
     
  11. TokenDuelist YGO TCG is Cheaper. Fight me.
    TokenDuelist

    Member

    tbh I'd rather they have just reprinted it as an exact reprint (this game needs more of that)

    but these
    these make me happy.

    That Jolteon is perfect.
     
    GadgetJax likes this.
  12. Gengar master shiny pkmn bait
    Gengar master

    Advanced Member Member

    That Vileplume reminds me of the days of VileGar... I will use it :p
     
  13. MegaButterfree Old Timer
    MegaButterfree

    Member

    Thanks as always for posting the preview! Here are some of my thoughts:

    1) Vileplume - I think if I were to play it, I would do it like the Phantom Forces crobat - have a few glooms in waiting, and scoop up/AZ vileplume on my turn, play all my items, then set it back out. A bit tricky to pull off I'm sure. I think it would do well against a seismitoad EX if you could set it up quickly with Wally - because seismitoad will already be ensuring you can't use items, so you might as well return the favor and deal 2x damage. Finally, I wonder how the new ancient trait on celebi and malamar will work with vileplume. I would assume you can still attach an item to them and maybe use switch on them? Any thoughts?

    2) Jolteon - I think it could be very interesting, and might go beyond just being novel if we get a special lightning energy in this set. If we do, depending on what its effect is, it could also pair with another of the special energies we've gotten (based on the stage 1's printed type). I'd say it would be amazing for medicham (ancient trait), but then I remembered it's main attack doesn't take into account weakness. It could be interesting for ancient trait excadrill, though (well, and many others, particularly those pointed out before me). I guess this jolteon can also team well with mega manectric, and as mentioned before me, rough seas.

    3) Paint Roller - I agree on the disconnect between the many items in the game and the ones that are chosen for cards...I guess they want to make it unique in some ways. Anyhow, I think this card could be useful in a deck that doesn't get great benefit from playing its own stadiums, but could be disadvantaged by opponents using them. Taking out a training center at the right time can KO your opponent...but, really anything you can do with it, you can already do with another stadium (you just don't get an item). With only 60 cards though, it's a bit of a tough sell. Maybe there will some extremely complex strategy involving gothitelle from furious fists or another similar card?
     
    asdjklghty likes this.
  14. King of Dragons I just hang around for reasons
    King of Dragons

    Member

    These cards give a sign that Stage 1's and 2's might be coming back (I HOPE I'M RIGHT :))
    Vileplume: I'm glad and mad about this thing coming back, Mad because another year of Item Lock (then again the Trainer/Item/Supporter Lock cards are never going to go away so yeah). But I love how we can potenially see a The Truth 2.0 sooner or later, I might get some Vileplumes for play testing.
    Jolteon: Fun, Gimmicky, and Potential are 3 perfect words to say for Jolteon. One cool combo I though is by using the Lucario from Legendary Treasues along with Jolteon. With 2 Strong Energy's and a Muscle Band, he hits for 110 damage (which can already OHKO Shaymin and Jirachi EX (Resistence not included)) then when you put Jolteon down, he will still be a fighting type so he keeps the Strong Energy's and then since your Fighting and Lightning you OHKO M Rayquaza, MegaMan, and Lugia EX.
    Paint Roller: I like the concept of Paint Roller since it gets past Ninetales but that means it's another tool for Toad against M Ray, Primal Groundon and Primal Kyorge/Keldeo/Rough Seas (Ouch!).
    Overall it can replace rotating cards such as Bicycle possibly.
     
  15. TheStrictNein Has tried turning it off and on again
    TheStrictNein

    Member

    The wording of Celebi prevents effects of abilities done to Celeb. As Vileplume's ability targets the players, not the Pokemon, you would still not be able to use items.
     
  16. Seeing Vileplume back makes me happy. I'm curious what role it can find in a format with Seismitoad, because the item lock effect is really powerful and it's not locked behind an attack.

    Jolteon seems like an interesting way to beat Mega Ray. I'm more curious if other Eeveelutions will get a similar ability as well (ie. Vaporeon for Water, Flareon for Fire, Leafeon for Grass), given that Eeveelutions tend to be similar when released in a set. Especially because they'd all be stage 1s, so they'd give their types out to each other. But I'm getting too ahead of myself.

    No comment on Paint Roller. Seems kinda meh.
     
  17. asdjklghty -------------
    asdjklghty

    Member

    Oooohhh. I'm a noob.
    I remember that DP had Weakness that was dependent on the card, not always x2. Long live my Empoleon from Majestic Dawn.
    I remember when a T1 Night Spear was frustrating to play against but it felt good to play.
    I do know that Pokemon is becoming more luck based where many in many matches, it's who sets up first wins.
     
    Otaku likes this.
  18. LoneWolf2113 Now With Sablenite!
    LoneWolf2113

    Member

    Well, seeing as how Bandit Ring comes out in August, it probably won't be legal for worlds, meaning that Vileplume will never be in the same standard format as Exeggutor, so that worry can be put to rest.
     
  19. TheStrictNein Has tried turning it off and on again
    TheStrictNein

    Member

    inb4 we get another Supporter lock card in AOR
     
  20. MrIronGolem27 Primal Dialga!
    MrIronGolem27

    Member

    Hmm...Paint Roller might be worth at least two in a deck if it doesn't require a Stadium card in play.
     
  21. Vinub Aspiring Trainer
    Vinub

    Member

    I have some questions:

    1. Does mega pokemon considered stage 1 pokemon?
    2. How jolteon hability will work with weakness and resistance at the same time (for example, Rhydon VS yveltal)?
     

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