A Shadow in the Sand [VGC 2012 Format]

[DNA]

A Shadow in the Sand
by DNA

(name idea by this guy)​

As with most of my strange and/or successful ideas, I developed this idea while slightly high (and when I say 'slightly high', I mean that I was actually half-asleep and preparing to go to bed when the idea just appeared in my head). I wanted to develop this team for the Autumn 2011 VGC, but I noticed there was one major snag in the team - the move I wanted to use was event-exclusive. Thus I fell back on an odd Regigigas team idea. (It worked, for the most part; there were just too many Scrafty running around.) I had this idea for a long time in regards to the leads, but I didn't finalize this team idea until this morning.

Fortunately, I now have enough time to build this, given how the next VGC is April 14th, which I may or may not be going to. (Meaty wants me to go, but will I go just for him? I have no idea.)

Okay, let's get down to business.

~~~~~
The whole point of this team is Gengar's Sludge Wave. Sludge Wave is a tricky move for Gengar, as you can only get it straight from the Dream World (thus, you get locked out of egg moves) - and given how it's a little-known move, people don't think about it. Yet Gengar is the one who can use this move to its greatest potential.

Sludge Wave has one big drawback, of course - it has the same range as Surf in that it hits everyone, even your own partner. This can be blocked either by Protect or with a Steel-type. Excadrill fits the bill nicely here, not only because he's rather speedy, but he can use a very strong STAB Earthquake that can chain into Gengar's Levitate. Optimally, I should be able to rattle off a T1 Sludge Wave AND Earthquake, leaving me completely unscathed and crippling my opponent severely.

As you're probably aware, Excadrill works best in sand. And who's the best Sand starter? Tyranitar. (I could use Hippowdon, but since the team revolves a lot around Speed, as you'll soon see, TTar is a better choice.)

Of course, I don't want those guys to be one-trick ponies. They need backup, of course, and I want to keep my options open. Another guy who works beautifully in Sandstorm is Landorus; he serves a similar function to Excadrill in that he can use STAB EQ at no cost to Gengar, but he focuses more on power than Speed. (He's still pretty fast, though.)

At this point, I noticed I have a very glaring weakness to Water-type attacks. Well, that sucks. The first thing that comes to my mind at this point is Gastrodon, since not only is he at home in sand, but he has access to a truly devastating move: Muddy Water. It's like Surf, except you don't hit your partner and you have a pretty good chance of blinding your opponent.

I'm up to 5. Now what? To be honest, the last slot could be pretty much whatever I wanted, but I wanted something that would mix with the team well. And I called back an old idea a friend gave me on what to use in a sandstorm that would be an absolute powerhouse. That idea was to use the Houdini of Pokemon...literally. Enter Alakazam, stage right.

After this comes the tricky part - what can I tweak to make the team run better? Well, I notice a pretty big weakness to Sucker Punch, and I was later informed (in this topic) that I have an almost overbearing weakness to Hitmontop, who is relatively common in VGC. Thus, I decide to have a back-up Steel lead in case Excadrill can't handle it, and also sturdy enough to take a lot of hits while dishing out heavy damage. I call upon a very old friend to aid me...Metagross.

So I'm going to stop yapping now, right? Unfortunately, I have to do a team breakdown, so you'll have to hear me rant for a little bit longer...sorry.

[animate]gengar[/animate]
Gengar @ Poison Gem
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk); ability Levitate (Immune to damage from Ground-type attacks)
EV Spread: 248 Spe 248 SpA 14 HP
Hypnosis // Sludge Wave // Shadow Ball // Hidden Power Fire​

When people see a Gengar in doubles, they're going to think Hypnosis or maybe Shadow Ball. Good, because that's what I want them to think. In reality, what I'm going to do is to hit them hard and fast with a well-aimed Sludge Wave. As I mentioned earlier, Gengar can only get Sludge Wave through the Dream World (he is incompatible with the TM), and thus building this guy is going to be a bit quirky. The idea behind this is pretty obvious: Use Sludge Wave w/Poison Gem T1 to make sure they're dead. Since he's usually going to be paired with Excadrill as a partner, a Sludge Wave AND an Earthquake is pretty hard to survive unless your name is Skarmory (that, and Gengar is the ONLY person on this team not immune to sand damage). But I don't think people use Skarmory in Doubles. However, it could still be a nice boon against annoying rain-based threats.

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature (+Spe -SpA); ability Sand Rush (Doubles Speed in a sandstorm)
EV Spread: 252 Spe 252 Atk 6 HP
Earthquake // Rock Slide // X-Scissor // Swords Dance​

Before you ask why I'm using a 252/252/6 in a VGC team, it's because I already have an Excadrill at level 100, and most of the guys in my boxes I like to have double as lv100 fighters. (Gengar is probably going to be the only exception.) Moving on...

Excadrill is pretty self-explanatory. No hidden surprises, nothing out of the ordinary...wait. Nothing out of the ordinary? Ah well, not much else I can do. In any case, Excadrill needs the Focus Sash in this case - not only because that's standard fare for him in VGC, but because most of the time for him, Sandstorm will NOT be active, unless I choose to have him lead with TTar (below) instead of Gengar (above). It's a bit of a tricky choice, but he meshes well with either, which is nice. And just in case someone decides to drop TTar on me, I can counter it.

[animate]tyranitar[/animate]
Tyranitar @ Air Balloon
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpA); ability Sand Stream (Summons a sandstorm upon entry)
EV Spread: 252 HP 252 Atk 6 SpD
Earthquake // Rock Slide // Crunch // Protect​

Tyranitar, you highly-attractive beast. You're Excadrill's best friend and you can even hold onto your Balloon so your pals can use Earthquake and not kill you in the process. That very nice Rock/Dark double STAB should give you a few nice options, and you can use Earthquake when Gengar or Landorus is around yourself, making for some nice hits. And just in case you get stuck with Gengar and he needs to spew noxious chemicals everywhere, you're covered - you can use Protect to cover your backside. Indeed, with that Adamant nature and bulky HP investment, you can guarantee that, even if you get outsped, you can stick around for a hit or two and show them what you're made of. Booyah.

[animate]landorus[/animate]
Landorus @ Yache Berry
Jolly Nature (+Spe -SpA); ability Sand Force (Sand-typed moves hit for 1.3x the power in a sandstorm)
EV Spread: 252 Spe 252 Atk 6 HP
Earthquake // Rock Slide // Imprison // Protect​

I know, I know. Three sets in a row like this must look REALLY boring. However, there is no denying the offensive capabilities and type coverage of Ground+Rock offense, especially when you have Sand Force to back yourself up. Landorus has a very nice Speed stat, putting him a few steps ahead of most things, however in terms of my team's overall speed, he's average. Ah well, I guess it doesn't matter too much.
As for why I'm using Imprison...a friend of mine gave me this idea, actually. Notice that Landorus' other 3 moves are Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Protect...and in VGC, all of those are VERY common. With a well-timed Imprison, you can hamper your opponent's offense significantly, especially if they rely on those moves a lot. Landorus is dangerous enough outside of a sandstorm, but within it, he turns into a merciless monster.

[animate]gastrodon[/animate]
Gastrodon @ Sitrus Berry
Bold Nature (+Def -Atk); ability Storm Drain (Draws and negates all Water-type damage against it, and raises SpAtk by 1 stage when this happens)
EV Spread: 252 SpA 140 HP 118 SpD
Muddy Water // Earth Power // Icy Wind // Recover​

Ah, East Sea Gastrodon. Cute little fellow, isn't he? Yet his appearance belies his power. If I find out I am going against a rain team, half of my members will be ill-suited for the encounter - and that's where the sea slug comes in. He can not only switch in safely, but also tag out a partner of mine if I HAVE to use sand. (I usually will, just to negate their weather.)

This set idea is fairly simple: Muddy Water and Icy Wind for a nice offensive combo that will hit both opponents and lower a stat (Accuracy or Speed respectively), Earth Power for secondary STAB, and then there's Recover. Interestingly enough, he is the only person on this whole team that cannot block Gengar's Sludge Wave (everyone else is Steel or knows Protect), and even then he resists it. But usually this guy will be a bait-and-switch for any Water-type attackers that might come my way and ruin my sand warriors.

[animate]metagross[/animate]
Metagross @ Occa Berry
Adamant Nature (+Atk -SpA); ability Clear Body (Prevents opponents from lowering stats)
EV Spread: 252 Atk 252 Spe 6 HP
Meteor Mash // Earthquake // Agility OR Protect // Natural Gift OR Zen Headbutt​

And thus, the team is rounded out. Metagross is enough of a defensive wall to sustain damage from all manner of physical attacks - even ones that are super-effective, plus his typing makes both Fighting and Dark moves neutral against him. (And most of those are physical, so for the most part he's fine.) After Agility, no one save Swift Swim or Sand Rush dares to outspeed him, and Meteor Mash and Earthquake are there for dealing serious damage. (Earthquake tags perfectly with Gengar, thus Metagross serves as a backup co-lead in place of Excadrill, as he too is Steel-type and thus blocks Sludge Wave.) And Natural Gift pairs well with the Berry that he needs to survive; against other Steel-type threats - especially the likes of Ferrothorn and Scizor - Metagross can send them home crying. With fists as amazing as these, no one is safe!


Cycled-out members:

Spoiler

[animate]alakazam[/animate]
Alakazam @ Life Orb
Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk); ability Magic Guard (Prevents secondary damage)
EV Spread: 252 SpA 252 Spe 6 HP
Psychic // Shadow Ball OR Energy Ball // Focus Blast OR Energy Ball // Hidden Power Ice​

And finally, the last piece of the puzzle. Alakazam is just a good all-around sweeper, and although he doesn't have any multi-target moves to cripple the opposition (and I may switch him out for someone who does have some), he's built to ensure that anything he hits will be dead on contact. Magic Guard allows him not only immunity to Sandstorm, but also a Life Orb combo; he gets the extra 1.3x damage with NO drawback whatsoever. And since some people do pack Garchomp to counter Sandstorm teams, Hidden Power Ice is to make sure that nothing goes unchecked against the sandstorm!

~~~

So what happens after this? Well, I can point out a gigantic weakness in my team right now, and that is Sucker Punch. Although several team members can shrug off Sucker Punch like it's no one's business, Gengar and Alakazam cannot - they will die, guaranteed, if Sucker Punch gets them. There aren't many things with this move, but I must be wary of those who are.

I've been considering Metagross instead of Alakazam for the last slot, to allow Excadrill to sit in the back row; Metagross doesn't lose too much with sand not being in play anymore, and he gets Agility as well, allowing his own speed to stand toe-to-toe with Excadrill's (or any other irritating threat). His purpose will be identical to Excadrill's - he'll just be sturdier, plus it lets me put Focus Sash on somebody else.

~~~

Credits and stuff.

So, as you guys have noticed, Luxray and Red Striker have been giving me a LOT of help with this team - and it's paid off handsomely. I've tested this team out in the Battle Subway and it performs incredibly well; on my first attempt I only lost in battle 43 to a quad-legend team (and even then it wasn't that big of a loss margin). I'd like to give them both a hand for supporting me and such, giving their input, and even giving me the new team name idea. Cool, isn't it? Thanks guys!

 

[Red Striker]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Gengar @ Poison Gem (or maybe Black Sludge)

Keep the Poison Gem. Black Sludge in VGC is only good with Mons that can tank hits well (like Amoonguss, given the proper set).

Hypnosis // Sludge Wave // Shadow Ball // Focus Blast OR Energy Ball OR Thunderbolt.

Hypnosis: Good, but only when it hits. Keep it anyways. You might also want to try Protect.
Sludge Wave: You already stated that this was the point behind Gengar.
Shadow Ball: Its other STAB. Keep it if you wish to live against things like Cresselia.
Fourth Slot: With Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave, Steel-types wall the set (while, yes, there are pokes on the team to take down Steels, it's good to plan for everything). I'd go with HP Fire. The most common Steels in VGC 2012 are Scizor and Metagross.

Okay, on to Excadrill.

The only problems I see is the fact that Hail is a common threat to Sashes. If you can get Sand back up before Excadrill takes the first damage from Hail, it will sweep with little worry. In Sand, Excadrill will outspeed Latios with ease, granting it an OHKO with a +2 X-Scissor.

T-tar:

Without the Sash or Chopple Berry, T-tar stands little chance against common threats. Also, I might try 252 Att/252 HP/6 SDef. It's a Base 61 in Speed, so with 252 Spe. EVs, it still won't be outspeeding much.

Landbro:

Like T-tar, without a Sash or Yache Berry, Landorus won't survive much. Not much else to be said here.

Gastrodon:

I might divise the EV spreads a little more to where everything isn't being dumped into Def. Since you already have a Bold Nature (which is the best Nature for Gastro imao), I might try the EV spread of 252 SAtt/140 HP/116 SDef. Other than that, Gastrodon is looking solid.

Alakazam:

This thing is extremely fragile. Without a Sash, Alakazam can be OHKO'd by many things. Since it would seem the Sash has been taken up by another member, I would completely replace Alakazam with Latios. Go ahead and put a Scarf on it. As for the rest, that's up to you, since it has many options open to it. Just be sure to give it HP Fire.




Other than that, looks good!

 

[DNA]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

All right, response. Not going to edit the OP just yet.

Gengar's Fourth Slot: With Shadow Ball and Sludge Wave, Steel-types wall the set (while, yes, there are pokes on the team to take down Steels, it's good to plan for everything). I'd go with HP Fire. The most common Steels in VGC 2012 are Scizor and Metagross.

Truth be told, I actually started SRing for my Gastly a few days ago, and I've chosen one. There's no turning back there, so I can at least check what Hidden Power it has. *goes to check* OMG YAY IT HAS HP FIRE =D
Now I know what my last slot will be.

The only problems I see is the fact that Hail is a common threat to Sashes. If you can get Sand back up before Excadrill takes the first damage from Hail, it will sweep with little worry. In Sand, Excadrill will outspeed Latios with ease, granting it an OHKO with a +2 X-Scissor.

Ah, so Swords Dance is better to have than Shadow Claw in this case, due to the OHKO possibility?

Without the Sash or Chopple Berry, T-tar stands little chance against common threats. Also, I might try 252 Att/252 HP/6 SDef. It's a Base 61 in Speed, so with 252 Spe. EVs, it still won't be outspeeding much.

Even when it's Jolly? But point taken.
The problem is that he really needs the Balloon in this case, because there's the possibility of TTar+Exca combo lead for a speedy win. I would need the Balloon so TTar can live through Exca's Earthquake. Yes, I know it's a very big risk, but it's one I have to take.
As for raising a new TTar? That's probably going to be low priority, given the Latios if I go with it. (It's mostly the short notice factor, but if I have enough time, I should be able to get one.)

Like T-tar, without a Sash or Yache Berry, Landorus won't survive much. Not much else to be said here.

Makes sense. The biggest problem is I have with this guy is he dies to Ice Beam. So yeah, Yache Berry is totally possible.

I might divise the EV spreads a little more to where everything isn't being dumped into Def. Since you already have a Bold Nature (which is the best Nature for Gastro imao), I might try the EV spread of 252 SAtt/140 HP/116 SDef. Other than that, Gastrodon is looking solid.

Huh, sounds pretty good, actually, seeing as I'm not using Lefties or anything. And it'll let him use Muddy Water and actually kill something, especially after a Storm Drain trigger. I'll keep note of that.

This thing is extremely fragile. Without a Sash, Alakazam can be OHKO'd by many things. Since it would seem the Sash has been taken up by another member, I would completely replace Alakazam with Latios. Go ahead and put a Scarf on it. As for the rest, that's up to you, since it has many options open to it. Just be sure to give it HP Fire.

This...actually makes sense. Latios is neither as fast nor as powerful as Alakazam, and he will take sand/LO damage, but he trades that for durability and, of course, Levitate, letting him pair with half the team. The problem with that is I do not yet have Latios...but fortunately, Latios is currently a stationary legendary for me in HG, so getting one isn't impossible! However, the HP Fire bit WILL be tricky, since in-game HP is not something easily controlled.
But why Latios and not, say, Metagross?

 

[Red Striker]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Ah, so Swords Dance is better to have than Shadow Claw in this case, due to the OHKO possibility?

Yes, possibally, but I might test a bit more. In place of SD, Protect, of course, is a viable move on Excadrill. But note one thing: once you're at a +2 Att., the opponent's attention will most likely go to Excadrill, causing a likeley gang attack. For example:

Opponent's active mons: Scizor and DrizzleToed.
Your mons: +2 Att. Exca and (some other mon on the team).
(Let's go ahead and say that Sand is the current weather)

All the opponent has to do is Surf with Toed to get Exca's Sash out of the way. Then Scizor can KO with Bullet Punch. Still, when used right, SD can be very handy.

Even when it's Jolly? But point taken.

I'm sorry! I completely looked over the fact it was Jolly and my thoughts went straight to Adamant. Jolly T-tar is good, but only when Scarfed. As for the Item, I understand the point behind Baloon, but common priority users such as Scizor and Metagross will break those things with ease.

This...actually makes sense. Latios is neither as fast nor as powerful as Alakazam, and he will take sand/LO damage, but he trades that for durability and, of course, Levitate, letting him pair with half the team.

LO Latios in Sand... Don't do it. That's more damage than it can hold. After two turns, there's not much effort involved in KOing Latios.

But why Latios and not, say, Metagross?

You need to keep the ratio of Phys. attackers to Spec. attackers balanced. A VGC team shouldn't have any more than 2-3 Phys. attackers due to a high prevelance in Intimidate and WoW (though Meta doesn't care about Intimidate). Currently, your ratio of Phys./Spec./Support is 3/3/0. Metagross would ti the scales, not to mention adding another Steel-type, meaning more common weaknesses. In place of Latios, I suppose Special ScarfMence will also work (just be sure to make it a Spec. attacker).

I noticed you don't hace anything to counter Trick Room with. This is going to be a big problem, since TR is extrmemly common. Hmm... I'd suggest a Cresselia. It can counter TR, as well as provide it in the case your opponent sets up Tailwind (not to mention the fact that Gastro and T-tar aren't the fastest mons who ever lived). As for finding room for Cress, you might have that replace Alakazam as well. This is the set I usually use:

Cress@Lum Berry (since this is Sand, Lefties may also work, just beware of T-Wave and Spore)
Nature: Bold
Ability: Levitate (Helping Hand-boosting EQ while being immune is always fun)
EVs: 252 HP, 180 Def., 76 SDef
Moveset:
Trick Room
Helping Hand
Icy Wind (Psychic is also an option is you don't have the shards/BPs)
Light Screen (this is why I dumped most of Cress' set in Def., since LS will just double the SDef. and I needed to balance the scales of the Defences)

 

[DNA]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Doesn't Cress roam? If it does, trying to get one even with the right nature will be almost impossible for me However, I still have a Pearl which can generate Cresselia, but due to lack of RNG it's going to be tricky. Ah well, I'll see. It'll be either her or Latios.

LO Latios in Sand... Don't do it. That's more damage than it can hold. After two turns, there's not much effort involved in KOing Latios.

LO Latios? As if. I'd probably do what most people do - White Herb Meteor.

I'm sorry! I completely looked over the fact it was Jolly and my thoughts went straight to Adamant. Jolly T-tar is good, but only when Scarfed. As for the Item, I understand the point behind Baloon, but common priority users such as Scizor and Metagross will break those things with ease.

In the autumn I didn't see Metagross or Scizor very much at all. Yes, I saw them, but only once or twice, and I personally never ran into any. However, that doesn't mean the threat doesn't exist...although in TTar's case it will have to be a necessary risk, sadly.

I noticed you don't hace anything to counter Trick Room with. This is going to be a big problem, since TR is extrmemly common.

Not around here, it isn't. It's actually very UNcommon. In fact, the TR counter I brought along last year (Reuniclus) was only good for Skill Swapping over to Gigas. Except for that one weird part where it was one-vs-two...
Although, Gastrodon and TTar are slow enough to take advantage of it (more so when TTar will be adamant). But there's always the more surefire method of killing the TR user before he gets a chance to attack.

But note one thing: once you're at a +2 Att., the opponent's attention will most likely go to Excadrill, causing a likeley gang attack.

Hence why I'm scared to run Swords

 

[Red Striker]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

LO Latios? As if. I'd probably do what most people do - White Herb Meteor.

Intimidate will make sure to waste it. Most people run LO or the Dragon Gem. D-Gem'd D-Meteor will KO just about anything that doesn't resist and/or have Light Screen up.

Doesn't Cress roam? If it does, trying to get one even with the right nature will be almost impossible for me However, I still have a Pearl which can generate Cresselia, but due to lack of RNG it's going to be tricky. Ah well, I'll see. It'll be either her or Latios.

I hope you saved the Master Ball. It took me about fifteen tries before I got my Bold Cress with good IVs.

 

[Alan]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Hitmontop, one of the most common pokemon can destroy your team.
Sucker Punch: Alakazam and Gengar
Mach Punch/Drain Punch/Close Combat: Tyranitar and Excadrill
Intimidate: tyranitar, excadrill, Landorus
Yep. Looks like an issue. Lucario 4x resist dark (I think, might be 2) can psychic, vacuum wave AND Nasty plot. Or just use choice specs or something. And is immune to sand. Think it could fit in to your team somewhere?? I cant think of anyone it could replace.

 

[DNA]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

The problem with the above is that Lucario is just as weak to Mach Punch as TTar and Excadrill is. I do have a Nasty Plot set (no Vacuum Wave unfortunately) which I could use, but the thing is that Lucario is way too frail and isn't even that fast enough to do anything.

However, I DO agree with you about Hitmontop being way too common. Metagross blocks Intimidate and can probably beat up nicely on the guy, though, and Hitmontop hits neutral against it. (And with Metagross' base 130 Def, it'll barely be a crack in his armor.)

 

[Alan]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

what about a Choice Scarf, no nasty plot (you might wanna get a new one so you can keep it on your other one) no vacuum wave since it loses purpose w/ choice scarf. Something like
modest/ Timid 252 SpA,252Spe,4HP
Aura Sphere
Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse (can flinch)
Psychic
Hidden Power Grass or if it can,energy ball
Or something else don't know his moves too well.
Or is someone already using your scarf? Steadfast/Inner Focus paired with Gengar scares Hitmontop, and If they dont think about it, they fake out lucario,you outspeed a lot of things if you get a steadfast boost.

 

[DNA]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

No one's using the Scarf right now, so I can drop it on Lucario if I have to. And I do have a Scarf set already built, which is good. (It does have Steadfast.) The problem is still Mach Punch, though - Lucario still won't live after he gets hit by it.
However...this is definitely worthy of consideration. I'll chalk it up on a list of potential ideas, right next to Latios and possibly Cresselia.

 

[Red Striker]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Hitmontop, one of the most common pokemon can destroy your team.
Sucker Punch: Alakazam and Gengar
Mach Punch/Drain Punch/Close Combat: Tyranitar and Excadrill
Intimidate: tyranitar, excadrill, Landorus
Yep. Looks like an issue. Lucario 4x resist dark (I think, might be 2) can psychic, vacuum wave AND Nasty plot. Or just use choice specs or something. And is immune to sand. Think it could fit in to your team somewhere?? I cant think of anyone it could replace.

Completely right about that. Intimidate is why you want to limit your Phys. attackers to two, have one Support mon., and three Spec. Attackers. Lucario is a bad idea, since it is weak to Fighting (most people forget the fact its part Steel). Stat-boosting is best left to singles, so NP Lucario is a bad idea to begin with.

I'd change the team to this:

Cresselia/Musharna (Whichever you prefer)
T-tar
Landbro
Gastro
Gengar
(Some other Spec. Attacker that counters Hitmontop)

 

[Alan]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

No one's using the Scarf right now, so I can drop it on Lucario if I have to. And I do have a Scarf set already built, which is good. (It does have Steadfast.) The problem is still Mach Punch, though - Lucario still won't live after he gets hit by it.
However...this is definitely worthy of consideration. I'll chalk it up on a list of potential ideas, right next to Latios and possibly Cresselia.

Well, Inner Focus can be good so you dont flinch at all so mach punch might not be so bad if psychic can ko hitmontop. I dunno... Alakazam resists mach punch, but its defense can still make it get ko'd by it. I think some hitmontops prefer Drain Punch or Close Combat, and theres no other real threatful mach punchers.

---

Gastrodon: Icy wind is probably too weak. What about Bulldoze(Can it)? Its STAB, but physical :\... Dunno... just brainstorming.

 

[DNA]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

I'd change the team to this:

Cresselia/Musharna (Whichever you prefer)
T-tar
Landbro
Gastro
Gengar
(Some other Spec. Attacker that counters Hitmontop)

You're missing the Steel-type lead. This team NEEDS a Steel-type lead. And Musharna is too fragile to be of any use as a lead or even a counter to things, so that would be virtually out of the question.

Latios is actually the best suggestion I've heard so far, so I'm going to try and SR for that if I can.

 

[Alan]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

What about Bisharp?? Defiant cancels out Intimidate, Part steel, but super weak to Fighting.
Something like:
252 HP, 252 ATK, 4 DEF
or 252 HP, 108~14_?? ATK, Rest in Def.(First one might be better, IDK)
Defiant @ Chople Berry/Occa Berry IDK
Sucker Punch
Iron Head
Metal Burst
Something else good, like protect.
Super shallow move pool, might not be the best idea for this team though.

 

[Red Striker]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

You're missing the Steel-type lead. This team NEEDS a Steel-type lead. And Musharna is too fragile to be of any use as a lead or even a counter to things, so that would be virtually out of the question.

Scarf Inner Focus Lucario

Lucario@Scarf
Nature: Modest or Timid. Whichever you prefer.
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SAtt, 252 Spe., 4 SDef
Moveset:
Dark Pulse
Psychic
Aura Sphere
Hidden Power Fire

The set above is unresisted. Lucario isn't the best mon in VGC, especially since Top usually runs Mach Punch.

 

[Alan]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Scarf Inner Focus Lucario

Lucario@Scarf
Nature: Modest or Timid. Whichever you prefer.
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SAtt, 252 Spe., 4 SDef
Moveset:
Dark Pulse
Psychic
Aura Sphere
Hidden Power Fire

The set above is unresisted. Lucario isn't the best mon in VGC, especially since Top usually runs Mach Punch.

Its like the one I suggested, but Hidden Power Grass might be better for Gastrodon/Swampert/Rotom-W and rain teams.

 

[DNA]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

IDEA!!!
Yes I'm aware it's not special, but he's not Hitmontop weak.

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Adamant, Clear Body
252 Att 252 Spe 6 HP
~Meteor Mash
~Earthquake
~Agility
~Natural Gift

Natural Gift is physical, so take THAT, Steel-types.

 

[Red Striker]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Yes I'm aware it's not physical, but he's not Hitmontop weak.

Don't you mean "is physical?"

Also, you're going to need the Occa Berry, as Fire attacks will singe Metagross. Nature Power wih the Occa Berry will only have the power of 60. This is the set I typically use:

Metagross@Occa Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Hp, 252 Att, 4 SDef
Moveset:
Protect
Earthquake
Bullet Punch
Zen Headbutt

I've been using it for the past month or so, and it's pretty good.

 

[DNA]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Oh, right. I meant to write "isn't special".

I'm not going to rely too much on Natural Gift, really. It only has a one-time use and I would use it to punish Steel-types and such (Ferrothorn and Scizor in particular). Most of the time I'd be using Earthquake (if I can) to deal damage, and Meteor Mash is by far superior to Bullet Punch. With a chance to boost your own attack, that thing will HURT. (If I wanted to use Bullet Punch, I'd run Scizor.) I am very well aware that Bullet Punch is priority, but Metagross can't power it up as fast as Scizor can (nor does he get a Technician boost), and Meteor Mash hits for 2.5 times the power that Bullet Punch would.

ZH is a good idea, but I don't have room for it and I don't want the moveset to be too shaky. Same thing with Protect. After an Agility, I don't think anything is going to get the better of Metagross anyway.

Metagross' Meteor Mash has been good to me in the past, and there's no reason to believe it won't be good for me now.

I've updated the OP with a few tweaks, with the exception of Adamant TTar. I probably will build one, but I want to get the difficult things out of the way first.

 

[Alan]

RE: Dark Dust Spirits [VGC 2012 Format]

Well, If you want him Anti-Top, Zen Headbutt is Ideal. But Meteor Mash + Zen Headbutt is risky w/ accuracy and might cost you the game, you might want Wide Lens but Occa Berry is good, Why not Fire Punch>Natural Gift?? Its 75 pow. think its a 4th gen tutor move. Ice punch could be good fr dragons. a lot of options.