Realistically we need to see reprints of VS Seeker and Enhanced Hammer too as their last prints in the next Standard format are purely Secret Rare copies.
2017 Format Rotation Announced!
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
- Start date
If one print of a card is legal in a given format, older prints with the same text are still legal even if they're from rotated sets. All prints of VS Seeker and Enhanced Hammer are still usable.
Just some food for thought; Trainers that discard Pokémon Tools are actually rare in the TCG's history. All I know of are Windstorm (2006), Tool Scrapper (2012), Startling Megaphone (2014), and Xerosic (2014) may sound like a lot but even taking into account Pokémon Tools weren't added to the game until Neo Genesis (2000), it still took six years before the first with another six years before the second. We'll have to see if two years between them is the new norm, or if they want to shift it back to a Pokémon based effect. Just because of many strong Pokémon Tool cards still available plus Garbodor (BKP), I assume we'll get something instead of this mechanic returning to the status of being a deck specialty.
Good to know, thanks for the heads up.
Just on the strength of Garbodor alone I would assume we will be getting a new (or reprinted) tool-removing Trainer card within the next two sets. It will certainly be something to keep an eye on.
I know that, I just mean it's not really 'fair' if the only recent versions of these cards we can get are secret rares, so I'd expect a reprint of both personally. Are there other cases where the only print in rotation is/was a secret rare reprint?
Are they particularly hard to obtain? A bit confusing because of how we use the terms, but instead of releasing it as a "new" card in a later set, the-powers-that-be could also just release them in a Theme deck or similar release, but technically have them be the previous printing. This would be more likely if the product was specifically targeting Expanded, such as the Battle Arena Deck (or whatever it was called) that had the Mewtwo-EX and Darkrai-EX decks.
Honestly that'd be better, a guaranteed way to come across cards like VS Seeker is always welcome to me.
No more flare gear ;( Battle compressor helped so many decks, and fighting types lost almost all of their support o -o from focus sash to fighting stadium...I wonder what Sun And Moon will bring.
Just checking: did you pick up the Mewtwo-EX Versus Darkrai-EX Battle Arena deck? It only had one, but at least it had one. XD
Seriously though it had a lot of good cards and looks like it is still for sale online for about $30 (might be in some stores as well, but it is getting a bit old now).
Sceptile EX and M Sceptile EX will be a very nice counter and keep Greninja in check most likely, IMO.
Greninja's not going to be that big a problem as long as Garbodor is around. Greninja doesn't even have any outs to it anymore if it gets set up first, until the inevitable Tool Scrapper reprint (or Startling Megaphone. Or Xerosic. Or something new. I just view Tool Scrapper as the most likely at this point.) I also expect Vespiquen variants to still be around (yeah, they lose Battle Compressor, but Vespiquen is still pretty powerful, just slower), which limits Greninja's power.
Interestingly enough, this is one of the decks I intend to build and test. Although the loss of Dimension Valley will significantly (IMO) impact Psychic decks, we will also have much "slower" Standard format games going forward due to the cards rotation. So, there may be ample time to get M Alakazam EX setup with the early damage spread by Trevanant BREAK.
My biggest question is will the best of 3 match play (used in the bigger tournaments) be still limited to just 50 minutes.... I do expect a change to this rule too.
Last edited:
In my previous post, I noted that post-rotation, Standard games will be slower. With this rotation, we've lost different types of "speed" in general. For example,
Lastly, Dark and Grass seem to have been impacted the least by the rotation. So, will Dark and Grass decks possibly dominate the early meta? What Standard Grass and Dark decks are you planning to build and test post-rotation, if any?
- Certain decks (e.g., Night March and Vespiquen) have lost "setup" speed with the rotation of Battle Compressor.
- Fighting decks lost Fighting Stadium, Focus Sash, and Korrina. The lost of these cards greatly diminishes Fighting decks setup and time-to-KO time speed in addition to their Pokémon survival capability.
- Psychic decks, with the lost of Dimension Valley, will require more time to get necessary energy attached.
- Fire decks lost Blacksmith, a critical Supporter that provided energy-attachment acceleration; so, energy attachment speed decreases significantly.
- Lightning, as well as certain other decks can leverage Magnezone for Lightning energy-attachment acceleration.
- Fighting decks can utilize Carbink BREAK for Fighting energy-attachment acceleration.
- And, any deck can run up to 4 Max Elixir to provide Basic energy-attachment acceleration too.
Lastly, Dark and Grass seem to have been impacted the least by the rotation. So, will Dark and Grass decks possibly dominate the early meta? What Standard Grass and Dark decks are you planning to build and test post-rotation, if any?
I am not sure how significant it truly will be. Remember that most of the cards we lost, we didn't have in the BW block. Obviously we had first turn attacks back then, but now we do have Max Elixir. So we will be relatively slower but still a very fast format; it will be significant, but not dramatically different.
But, one of the keys in hitting energy with the Max Elixir is being able to first thin-out your deck in order to increase your chances of getting the Basic energy. Key cards to help thin-out one's deck, like Battle Compressor, have rotated out. Plus, if one does not hit the energy, you are then back to the manual, single energy attachment per turn. Hitting the Max Elixir, no doubt, would only enhance deck speed, IF you hit the Max Elixir.
Thinning your deck improves your odds with Max Elixir, but it does not require it. Even if we assume Max Elixir is going to become terrible, it wasn't a requirement for my point. I brought up how fast the game was prior to Battle Compressor and Night March. Completely prior to XY we had first turn attacks, so those results are a little suspect, but we had three sets release before XY: Phantom Forces so I think we still have some good data. We can also consider the effect of Shaymin-EX (ROS); it joined us after we were already used to Battle Compressor.
Think about it this way; Battle Compressor enabled more refined deck strategies, as you could thin to win. Those strategies are gone... but that doesn't mean we'll get a brand new variety of decks; it seems more probable that instead we'll see more success from more focused, straightforward, and proven quantities. We'll see some changes, but don't expect a Renaissance but instead the Middle Ages. This is of course what will work versus what will be attempted; many, many new decks will be tried, at least at first.
I'm still a little upset about Dimension Valley. I like that we will have a fresh new format, but on the other hand what about Alakazam EX and Trevenant BREAK? Those poor new decks have only so little prime thanks to the rotation. I regret buying an Alakazam deck to say at least. Also it feels like the new Gardevoir has it's potential stripped before it's even been released. Dimension Valley is the only card I really want a reprint of.
@Robin Aisaga M Alakazam-EX will still have Mega Turbo to go from "zero" to attacking. If you have a free retreating opener than Max Elixir still works as well.
Won't the real issue be the loss of Trevenant (XY) for Trevenant BREAK decks? Losing Mystery Energy also hurts a bit as well. Still if the other Trevenant can keep it going in an altered form, the deck just loses its Energy advantage, but still seems average; attach an Energy one turn and so long as it doesn't get discarded prematurely, next turn a second attachment can get Silent Fear ready (or even Energy Press if one attachment is a Double Colorless Energy). So do they need more "prime" than that? Exp. Share may also be worth considering.
The new Gardevoir-EX needs Sky Field more than it needed Dimension Valley anyway.
Won't the real issue be the loss of Trevenant (XY) for Trevenant BREAK decks? Losing Mystery Energy also hurts a bit as well. Still if the other Trevenant can keep it going in an altered form, the deck just loses its Energy advantage, but still seems average; attach an Energy one turn and so long as it doesn't get discarded prematurely, next turn a second attachment can get Silent Fear ready (or even Energy Press if one attachment is a Double Colorless Energy). So do they need more "prime" than that? Exp. Share may also be worth considering.
The new Gardevoir-EX needs Sky Field more than it needed Dimension Valley anyway.
@Otaku Yeah Trevenant BREAK isn't really playable without the XY Forest's Curse version. But without Dimension Valley I don't think an other build would have much of a chance either. So I'd say its loss is a real issue.
I really can't agree about the Mega's though. I've been playing my Mega Alakazam deck for a little while, and I can say that single energy attackers are an incredible threat. You can attack any time, even when your opponent has tools to discard energy in play. Mega Turbo does not fix that. Also you need twice as much space in your deck list for more energies plus Mega Turbo. Not to forget it's harder to get energies in the discard pile at the right moment without Battle Compressor.
Gardevoir is not better of with Skyfield either. While doing 190 damage with eight Pokémon on the bench certainly sounds nice to K.O. your rivals EX Pokémon (without a Fighting Fury Belt hopefully) You can't possibly excpect to pull of the same trick twice without cramming your deck list with Pokémon. If only we had an exeggcute card in standard... My choice is most definitly the fast and consistent build.
...Defending a deck that can never exist, How silly of me
I really can't agree about the Mega's though. I've been playing my Mega Alakazam deck for a little while, and I can say that single energy attackers are an incredible threat. You can attack any time, even when your opponent has tools to discard energy in play. Mega Turbo does not fix that. Also you need twice as much space in your deck list for more energies plus Mega Turbo. Not to forget it's harder to get energies in the discard pile at the right moment without Battle Compressor.
Gardevoir is not better of with Skyfield either. While doing 190 damage with eight Pokémon on the bench certainly sounds nice to K.O. your rivals EX Pokémon (without a Fighting Fury Belt hopefully) You can't possibly excpect to pull of the same trick twice without cramming your deck list with Pokémon. If only we had an exeggcute card in standard... My choice is most definitly the fast and consistent build.
...Defending a deck that can never exist, How silly of me