Discussion Decks That Become Unviable Post-Rotation?

[bbninjas]

It was just the decks that I played against, I didn't imply it being the new op-i-win-button machine, just that it was actually good enough to be used.

Also, agaisnt raichu,nightmarch, vespiqueen i'd expect a lot of trouble with aegislash blocking them.

LandoBats doesn't matter because it will be rotated out in standard, standard is the focus here, and the most played, and the only format available to play for me at leagues.

I haven't played for more than a month, I'm not an expert, just intrigued and interested. I'm gonna be using a proxy Giratina deck this week, I think it's not gonna be the best, it's one of those really amazing or really bad deck depending on matchup.

You've been hyping the card as if it is going to be an absolute-staple-cant-win-without type of thing, hence my response.

I doubt it. Lysandre will be able to get around Aegislash, and by the time Aegislash has been charged up, each of those attackers should have the their two basic energy attached to fulfil the cost - technically quicker than Aegislash's three.

Lucario/Bats will be alive, most definitely.

A good tech will be good in all matchups, not just a few, otherwise there is no point.

 

[redsky22]

We lose TKD and speed lugia. I say this becaus both run deoxys and all plasma pokemon are getting rotated so anything plasma will not make it. I'm not sure if anyone has said this but toad will pretty much be dead with all the grass support and the loss of victini victory piece is a blow as well not being able to help with weakness on grass I know how much that help me in a few matchups.

 

[Toro Rosso]

Anything that deals Poison won't be viable due to the fact that Virbank City Gym is gone. Without the added damage, it's just a slow annoyance rather than a threat that it used to be.

Stall and wear decks lose Hypnotoxic Laser and the above so that's a bust there. Seismitoad would work with other partners like Bats or alternatives to accumulate damage fast.

Any deck that needs to be on the bench for any reason would suffer the loss of both Float Stone and Keldeo EX. Dragonite EX is a semi-reprint but it isn't really viable thus far.

All decks lose some ability to control the search such as Computer Search or Dowsing Machine being rotated out. This is a big matter as previously, consistency is a little less thanks to the A-Specs. Now that they're gone, it means that we need to be a lot more careful with luck really.

 

[Elbow]

Anything that deals Poison won't be viable due to the fact that Virbank City Gym is gone. Without the added damage, it's just a slow annoyance rather than a threat that it used to be.

Stall and wear decks lose Hypnotoxic Laser and the above so that's a bust there. Seismitoad would work with other partners like Bats or alternatives to accumulate damage fast.

Any deck that needs to be on the bench for any reason would suffer the loss of both Float Stone and Keldeo EX. Dragonite EX is a semi-reprint but it isn't really viable thus far.

All decks lose some ability to control the search such as Computer Search or Dowsing Machine being rotated out. This is a big matter as previously, consistency is a little less thanks to the A-Specs. Now that they're gone, it means that we need to be a lot more careful with luck really.

Actually, poison should be a bigger factor now. For one, Keldeo-EX and Float Stone are going away. Meaning that getting rid of status conditions will be much harder. Despite the minimal damage output, poison will more likely be a long-run threat rather then a short run threat.
While theres no more HTL, Ariados-centered decks could become big. With many scoop-up typed cards in the format (AZ, Super Scoop Up, Cassius), there will be many times when Ariados would come into play and the opponent won't want to switch out.

 

[DarkMatterGaming]

To add onto Elbow's thought, manual retreat will become even harder if you manage to get a Dragalgae out. No Keldeo EX means that whatever's in the active slot is stuck there unless you hit a Switch or scoop card.

 

[Otaku]

I might weigh in on some more specific bits later, but just the general ramifications are pretty significant.

What do no Ace Spec cards and fewer Supporter options really mean? There is no more Computer Search or Colress or Skyla. I don't know exactly how big of a deal this will be, but I can't imagine it failing to matter. Ace Specs have varied between "lucky power plays" or "one-ish shot power players" depending upon the deck and whether it can easily search and/or recycle them. With Supporters neither Colress no Skyla were the "run three or four in nearly ever deck" third great Supporter (in line with N and Professor Juniper/Professor Sycamore) but between the two of them and some more deck specific options, I think they faked it. Since we are also losing N that leaves us with just Professor Sycamore and a lot of "not quite" options.

 

[kai88]

completely agreed.

I might weigh in on some more specific bits later, but just the general ramifications are pretty significant.

What do no Ace Spec cards and fewer Supporter options really mean? There is no more Computer Search or Colress or Skyla. I don't know exactly how big of a deal this will be, but I can't imagine it failing to matter. Ace Specs have varied between "lucky power plays" or "one-ish shot power players" depending upon the deck and whether it can easily search and/or recycle them.With Supporters neither Colress no Skyla were the "run three or four in nearly ever deck" third great Supporter (in line with N and Professor Juniper/Professor Sycamore) but between the two of them and some more deck specific options, I think they faked it. Since we are also losing N that leaves us with just Professor Sycamore and a lot of "not quite" options.

Unviable, I would say toad puff. without laserbank, it becomes weak

Kai

 

[kai88]

Almost 1000 views, over 20 responses! Thanks to everyone who has participated so far!

I think we've covered most of of the meta decks, but I also want to know about tier 2 or 3 decks! Keep it up!

-Emskas

Tier three! Alright, let's go nuts
In

bunnelby mill
doublade ariados
ninjask spam
pyroar
m-gallade bats
m-latios
speed emboar EX
m gardevoir

Out

blastoise
emboar
lando bats
yveltal
anything garbodor
tdk

the list goes on and on

-kai

 

[bbninjas]

Tier three! Alright, let's go nuts
In

bunnelby mill
doublade ariados
ninjask spam
pyroar
m-gallade bats
m-latios
speed emboar EX
m gardevoir

Out

blastoise
emboar
lando bats
yveltal
anything garbodor
tdk

the list goes on and on

-kai

Eh, I highly doubt things like Pyroar, Ninjask and Doublade Ariados are going to be even good for Tier 3. Pyroar is Tier 4 now, and I doubt XY-on is going to help it with the loss of a significant amount of playable basic EXs, while Doublade Ariados feels too gimmicky and Ninjask too slow.

 

[Ms Hugo]

I would say Magma Camerupt might make a solid tier 3 deck...with the rise of Grass Pokemon, Water Pokemon may go out of favour a bit, taking away one of the deck's main weaknesses. And, obviously, Fire counters Grass.

I haven't had a chance to test out the deck against Rayquaza yet, but it counters Metal pretty well too. The issue, obviously, is speed- 4 attachments is a large amount, even with Blacksmith.

 

[kai88]

I would say Magma Camerupt might make a solid tier 3 deck...with the rise of Grass Pokemon, Water Pokemon may go out of favour a bit, taking away one of the deck's main weaknesses. And, obviously, Fire counters Grass.

I haven't had a chance to test out the deck against Rayquaza yet, but it counters Metal pretty well too. The issue, obviously, is speed- 4 attachments is a large amount, even with Blacksmith.

As Ms Hugo said, camerupt being a fire type, it may rise tiers, so maybe pyroar will too. That being said, it's just a guess, and Im pretty sure pyroar wont rise tiers.

kai

 

[gumball51321]

I saw everyone talking about LandyBats, but nobody mentioned Manectric/ Bats, nor Manectric/ Mega Manectric. I think this will make a great Tier 2 deck, being able to take care of Mega Ray, and as of Tier 3, Ariados/ Machamp-EX, with Strong energy, Muscle Band, Fighting Stadium, and Poison, have a potential of 230 Damage! This gets even better when you check the fact that Mewtwo's getting rotated, but ultimately dies against Aegislash-EX. Mega Sceptile is pretty much an Auto-Win against MandyBats, but both decks have different tech cards ( Hex Maniac for Machamp/ Ariados, and possibly Ampharos-EX for MandyBats).

I can see both of these decks shining brightly for the KSS-on rotation, unless the Mega Mewtwos are more than we can handle. Give me any comments if you see any holes in these decks or if you agree with me.

 

[Otaku]

@gumball51321 The main point of the thread seems to be to discuss the decks that stop being viable post rotation, as opposed to what will become or remain good. So if you think those two decks are going to be great, that might be why people aren't discussing them (they agree with you!).