Ruling BREAK Pokémon without anything beneath

vyolet127

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Pokémon BREAK get their retreat cost and weakness from the Pokémon they evolved from. But while experimenting with Chandelure from Unified Minds, I realized that a Delphox BREAK (or any other fire type or water type BREAK) could be put in play without being evolved. This leads to the question of what is their weakness and retreat cost if they don’t have any Pokémon beneath to take it from?
 

snoopy369

Aspiring Trainer
Advanced Member
Member
I think that's a very interesting question, and I don't see an answer to it in the Compendium.

I think that the answer would be that the BREAK card would have no retreat cost and no weakness or resistance (meaning it can retreat for free and every attack is 1:1). But that's entirely my logic and not based on anything I can find.
 

AuraJackle

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Breaks cannot be put into play without there base form you need to discard the breaks they will however count as damage for chandelure
 

treyh37

Watcher of Thorns
Member
AuraJackle's got the right of it, Break Pokémon cards are considered incomplete because they don't have weakness/res/retreat on them, as they are incomplete they can't be put into play by themselves, while incomplete they still count as Pokémon cards and would increase the damage Chandelure's attack does.
 

FourteenAlmonds

Helipotile
Member
From that, does this mean, for example, that you can't put a Yveltal BREAK into play with Greninja&Zoroark-GX's GX attack? Also, just making sure that they count as Pokémon in all other aspects, right?
 

Otaku

The wise fool?
Member
From that, does this mean, for example, that you can't put a Yveltal BREAK into play with Greninja&Zoroark-GX's GX attack? Also, just making sure that they count as Pokémon in all other aspects, right?

Correct. Effects that put a Pokémon directly into play cannot be used on Pokémon cards that aren't a complete Pokémon in and of themselves (having all required scores and effects of a regular Pokémon). From pokegym.net's "Ask the Masters" forum:

Two questions.
1) Are you allowed to put a BREAK Pokemon from your discard pile onto you bench using a Maxie's or Archie's?

2) Are you able to devolve a Stage 1/Stage 2/or Mega Pokemon with no previous evolution cards underneath that has been placed using Maxie's or Archie's (e.g. using Devolution Spray for your own Pokemon or Espeon EX's Miraculous Shine on your opponent's Pokemon)?
1. No. It is not a complete Pokemon by itself.
2. No. While it is a Stage "X" Pokemon, it is not an evolved Pokemon. It has to have a previous stage underneath it in order to be counted as evolved.

On a related note, they have already issued a ruling directly about Spirit Burner and Prism Star Pokémon:

== SPIRIT BURNER (Chandelure - SM: Unified Minds)


Q. When using Chandelure's "Spirit Burner" attack, can I place any discarded Stage 1 or Stage 2 Pokemon directly onto my bench?

A. Yes, you can. However, because of the order of this attack, you cannot put a Prism Star card onto your Bench. (Unified Minds FAQ; Aug 1, 2019 TPCi Rules Team)

For those wondering, yes the rulings from the Ask The Masters Forum of PokéGym count as official; it is a bit confusing, but while not an official Pokémon site several members of the TPCi's rules' team own and operate it, and key TPCi staff have affirmed the relationship and official nature of their rulings.
 

Merovingian

Dead Game Enthusiast
Member
Also, the same applies to 1/2 of the LEGEND cards, if you pull one half of a LEGEND Pokemon, it wouldn't be put into play.
 

Bobohippo

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Correct. Effects that put a Pokémon directly into play cannot be used on Pokémon cards that aren't a complete Pokémon in and of themselves (having all required scores and effects of a regular Pokémon). From pokegym.net's "Ask the Masters" forum:




On a related note, they have already issued a ruling directly about Spirit Burner and Prism Star Pokémon:



For those wondering, yes the rulings from the Ask The Masters Forum of PokéGym count as official; it is a bit confusing, but while not an official Pokémon site several members of the TPCi's rules' team own and operate it, and key TPCi staff have affirmed the relationship and official nature of their rulings.

Idk about that, breaks as you said technically are an evolution and unlike the legend cards are kind of complete. I feel that by your logic Otaku, that that would mean Pokemon that evolve using rare candies wouldn't be viable because, and using your quote "No. While it is a Stage "X" Pokemon, it is not an evolved Pokemon. It has to have a previous stage underneath it in order to be counted as evolved.". I don't know if this logic would necessarily apply but I think it is an interesting point.
 

Otaku

The wise fool?
Member
Idk about that, breaks as you said technically are an evolution and unlike the legend cards are kind of complete. I feel that by your logic Otaku, that that would mean Pokemon that evolve using rare candies wouldn't be viable because, and using your quote "No. While it is a Stage "X" Pokemon, it is not an evolved Pokemon. It has to have a previous stage underneath it in order to be counted as evolved.". I don't know if this logic would necessarily apply but I think it is an interesting point.

I don't follow.

First, let me be clear; I am relaying official rulings, to the best of my ability. You can check the source here. You can disagree with the rulings, but they are official and not merely me extrapolating from past rulings.

I wonder if some similar terms are confusing you, though if I am the one who is confused, let me know.

Rare Candy said:
Choose 1 of your Basic Pokémon in play. If you have a Stage 2 card in your hand that evolves from that Pokémon, put that card onto the Basic Pokémon to evolve it. You can’t use this card during your first turn or on a Basic Pokémon that was put into play this turn.

Rare Candy does not put a Stage 2 Pokémon directly into play; it plays it onto the corresponding Basic Pokémon. A Stage 2 Pokémon that hits the field through Rare Candy still counts as both an Evolved Pokémon and a Stage 2 Pokémon. If an Evolution card is put into play directly, with no prior Stages under it, then it does not count as an "Evolved" Pokémon. It still retains its printed Stage and is considered as an Evolution card but it counts as an unevolved Pokémon (which is not the same as being a Basic). Yes, "Evolved" and "Evolution" are different things in this game.

Compendium BW said:
Eternal Flame GX (Ho Oh GX - Burning Shadows)

Q. If I put a Charizard GX in play using Ho Oh GX's "Eternal Flame GX" attack, and my opponent evolves into Porygon-Z and uses its "Initialize" Ability, does Charizard GX go back into my hand?
A. No. Charizard GX is in play as an "unevolved Pokemon" and so is not affected by the Ability. (Burning Shadows FAQ; Aug 3, 2017 TPCi Rules Team)

Let me know if I cleared things up, if I didn't understand what you were saying, etc.
 
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