Discussion Does Dragon Need a Basic Energy Type?

[PMJ]

No, they don't need their own basic energy. It would make the type even more pointless than it already is. At least this way they can fit into decks that use other types of energy. Keep in mind nothing is weak to Dragon, so it's just a worse Colorless gameplay-wise. (I still disagree strongly with their decision to do this. They should've left Dragon weak to Dragon and made Darkness weak to Fairy instead since we already had multiple types weak to Fighting anyway.) Also, really, Dragons have used other energy types for longer than Dragon's even BEEN a type in the TCG. Many of the Colorless Dragons also did this during the EX and DP eras.

The problem is that we need more support for the Dragon type. Double Dragon Energy, Reshiram and Hydreigon-EX being the only Standard support is dumb.

This guy gets it.

They do need their own basic Energy but they need to also reduce the power of the they as a whole if they do that. I personally think Fairy didn't need its own Energy.

This guy doesn't.

Dragons need something to make them stand out from Colorless Pokemon other than jank attack costs. If you're going to force us to kill our consistency by running two types of basic Energy, at least make the attacks worth using. Kommo-o-GX is a good example. Imagine how much better Shred would be if it cost three Energy instead of four. You could leave the damage as it is since 1) it's a Stage 2 and powering it up in two turns requires Rare Candy and DDE, and 2) it can't hit for weakness and its attack effect is already good). Maybe reduce it to 120, since it cuts through the opponent's defenses. Adamantine Press should do 40 and reduce 40, and Ultra Uppercut GX's damage should be 250.

But no. Instead of making a viable Dragon-type, they shit all over it and now it's just another example of how much of a meme dragons are.

And another thing; Dragons need to stop being all weak to Fairy. It makes the entire type unviable. TPCI does stupid shit like making Swampert weak to Lightning all the time; there's no reason they can't throw the Dragon-type a bone and make something like a Dragonite weak to Water, or make a Hydreigon weak to Fighting, or just even make some of the Dragon-types weak to Dragon again, geez. Variety is the spice of life.

PS Fairy needed its own Energy, being shitters who require two different types of Energy is already dragons' shtick, they've been doing it since EX Dragon.

We could solve the dragon issue with some good dragon support cards.

Dragon Claw (tool)
The attacks of the Dragon Pokémon this card is attached to do 40 more damage to your opponent's active Pokémon.

Sky Pillar (stadium)
(Dragon type Forest of Giant Plants)

Zinnia (supporter)
Search your deck for 2 basic Energy cards and attach them to your Dragon Pokémon in any way you like.



Don't get on me since I didn't do the wording right.

PPS this is exactly the kind of support Dragon needs, though I'd be wary of giving them a free +40 to everything. Maybe it could be like Kukui in that it provides a small damage boost but also some sort of other buff, like +20 damage and +20 HP, or +10 damage and free retreat.

DEAR TPCI. MAKE US WANT TO PLAY DRAGONS. PLEASE STOP MAKING THEM A MEME TYPE.

 

[Olimar.Inc]

If they were to fix this late while dragons are here they would need to make dragon energies have a rule at the bottom stating that it can apply for any energy on dragons and you could have as many of these in a deck as you like.

 

[Starrydash]

They don't need a specific dragon type.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I really don't understand your line of thinking here. Dragon was added at a weird time. That's fine. But Fairy was added in the generation that it was introduced in the games. Should Dragon have been introduced with its own basic? I'd say yeah, sure. DDE is a pain. But in a sense, it mimics how Dragon types used Energy back when they were Colorless, to a degree. But Fairy never did that. Besides, it's not like Fairy is the be-all-end-all type. It doesn't have a Patch card. It's not ridiculously omnipresent.

So, like I said, I don't really understand where you're comin' from.

What I was saying was Dragon needs their own energy type since there isn't any reason for them not to have it but they should remove the perks they give (like that new shiny Rayquaza with 190 printed on its cards). However Fairy didn't need its own Energy card when it only exist to beat dragons and now I would say neither does the Dragon type. There is no reason for them to be anything but colorless since they have no other type interaction. I mean, Fairy doesn't even resist Dragon. They would be fine using any of the other existing types but I'm salty because the flying type isn't even its own type. I feel I should also say the other eight types don't have a Patch card either.

This guy doesn't.

Dragons need something to make them stand out from Colorless Pokemon other than jank attack costs. If you're going to force us to kill our consistency by running two types of basic Energy, at least make the attacks worth using. Kommo-o-GX is a good example. Imagine how much better Shred would be if it cost three Energy instead of four. You could leave the damage as it is since 1) it's a Stage 2 and powering it up in two turns requires Rare Candy and DDE, and 2) it can't hit for weakness and its attack effect is already good). Maybe reduce it to 120, since it cuts through the opponent's defenses. Adamantine Press should do 40 and reduce 40, and Ultra Uppercut GX's damage should be 250.

But no. Instead of making a viable Dragon-type, they shit all over it and now it's just another example of how much of a meme dragons are.

And another thing; Dragons need to stop being all weak to Fairy. It makes the entire type unviable. TPCI does stupid shit like making Swampert weak to Lightning all the time; there's no reason they can't throw the Dragon-type a bone and make something like a Dragonite weak to Water, or make a Hydreigon weak to Fighting, or just even make some of the Dragon-types weak to Dragon again, geez. Variety is the spice of life.

PS Fairy needed its own Energy, being shitters who require two different types of Energy is already dragons' shtick, they've been doing it since EX Dragon.



PPS this is exactly the kind of support Dragon needs, though I'd be wary of giving them a free +40 to everything. Maybe it could be like Kukui in that it provides a small damage boost but also some sort of other buff, like +20 damage and +20 HP, or +10 damage and free retreat.

DEAR TPCI. MAKE US WANT TO PLAY DRAGONS. PLEASE STOP MAKING THEM A MEME TYPE.

What don't I get? You seem to be the one missing the point behind the type. Pokemon players now don't want to do any work, like at all. You want the game to do all the work for you. This isn't a problem AT ALL for Vikavolt/Tapu Bulu deck, which run both Grass and Lightning energy. In case math is a problem here, that is too a two Energy deck.

Kommo-o-GX is a great card. It's not used because no one figured out how to use it but you fail to realize what it does. Shred is a Dragon exclusive attack, which ignores any effect. Do you know how powerful that is? That new A. Ninetales coming out gets nuked by this while no other type that has a GX or EX can hit it back. Kommo-o-GX doesn't need Hex Maniac but EVERY OTHER TYPE does. That is one less card you need to put into your deck. Its GX attack is a hard 240, which knocks out all but like four or so cards in one hit while other cards needs to complete some kind of requirement or need help to do the same.

Oh, lets not forget about that new Rayquaza card with 190 damage printed on the card, which is a Pokemon with a history of being used, despite needing two Energy types. DDE doesn't need to be reprinted. It ran it course and had its time to shine and now it rotates like everything else because it's not a Energy that needs to exist but while we're at it, I'd LOVE to have Boost Energy reprinted because I love the idea of a one Energy Mach Cyclone or Scramble Energy. Those Energy have never been reprinted.

Guess what, the Colorless type can't hit for Weakness as well and I don't want to hear "well, they have DCE" because it isn't a argument since the Colorless type are the worst users of DCE. I still want a Flying type but I do agree they need to diversify Weakness. I hate how mainstream they made it. I'd love for Psychic to be weak to Darkness and for Darkness to be weak to Fairy. I think the whole thing needs to be overhauled.

 

[GrandPanacea]

What I was saying was Dragon needs their own energy type since there isn't any reason for them not to have it but they should remove the perks they give (like that new shiny Rayquaza with 190 printed on its cards). However Fairy didn't need its own Energy card when it only exist to beat dragons and now I would say neither does the Dragon type. There is no reason for them to be anything but colorless since they have no other type interaction. I mean, Fairy doesn't even resist Dragon. They would be fine using any of the other existing types but I'm salty because the flying type isn't even its own type. I feel I should also say the other eight types don't have a Patch card either.

The bit about Fairy not having a Patch was used to illustrate the fact that Dark is extremely powerful, not to complain about the lack of one.

Fairy also gets a card type because the introduction of it as a type was a huge deal, just like with Dark and Steel (Or Darkness and Metal, if you'd rather).

Also, Psychic, Ghost, and Poison all share a type. Grass and Bug share a type. Water and Ice share a type. Normal and Flying share a type. The types don't have enough differences to make new card types even worth it. Flying just isn't important, new, or fancy enough to warrant its own card typing.

Also, considering this thread is about Dragon Types getting a Basic Energy, I think this should be the end of the discussion about the other types. If you wish to continue lamenting the fact that Flying isn't a unique type, you can always make a new thread. ^_^ (Also, I'm saying this bit as a mod.)

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

The bit about Fairy not having a Patch was used to illustrate the fact that Dark is extremely powerful, not to complain about the lack of one.

Fairy also gets a card type because the introduction of it as a type was a huge deal, just like with Dark and Steel (Or Darkness and Metal, if you'd rather).

Also, Psychic, Ghost, and Poison all share a type. Grass and Bug share a type. Water and Ice share a type. Normal and Flying share a type. The types don't have enough differences to make new card types even worth it. Flying just isn't important, new, or fancy enough to warrant its own card typing.

Also, considering this thread is about Dragon Types getting a Basic Energy, I think this should be the end of the discussion about the other types. If you wish to continue lamenting the fact that Flying isn't a unique type, you can always make a new thread. ^_^ (Also, I'm saying this bit as a mod.)

I too am proving a point. Dark and Steel didn't get a basic Energy until BW base. My point is Dragon should now have a basic energy but they should remove the perks they get to balance them out and if they don't want to do that, then DDE shouldn't be reprinted to make their time easier because of the perks they get. There is a reason they continue to make them this way and keeping DDE around is just giving them special treatment for no reason.

 

[Crizor]

Kommo-o is a decent card, but if we want to use Shred as an example Yanmega Break's Barrier Break does it a lot better than Kommo-o does even with DDE in. Yanmega reliably evolves, its Stage 1 has both a respectable attack and HP, attacks for free, and is worth 1 prize. Even if you do include the cost of Yanmega Break's attack of 3 colorless, Kommo-o is only getting in 30 more damage despite being dual typed and costing one more which is a bit weird considering Grass types are usually under the curve in terms of damage.

 

[Kietharr]

I think the point of dragons becoming a type without basic energy was to encourage people to run multicolor decks, since across the history of this game that has been fairly uncommon (at least when it comes to running multiple energy types). Vikavolt and Metagross do it now, but only because of abilities that enable them to do it.

The jank costs are a huge problem for dragon since none of the dragons are actually good enough to justify running two basic energy types, since without a proper form of acceleration there's a huge consistency penalty for doing this. DDE is a band-aid solution to the larger issue here, I don't mind it rotating but I think PCL should get serious about providing meaningful support for dragons.

Maybe a supporter that let you search your deck for two basic energies to attach to one of your benched dragon type pokemon. Combine that with a manual attachment and some of the dragons become immediately viable considering most attack for 2 different basic colors then 1-2 colorless. It's faster acceleration than DDE but also requires more deck investment and slows down your draw. Or maybe an item that lets you swap a basic energy attached to one of your pokemon for another basic energy in your deck to combine with Kiawe for the dragons that use fire and another type.

...DDE shouldn't be reprinted to make their time easier because of the perks they get. There is a reason they continue to make them this way and keeping DDE around is just giving them special treatment for no reason.

I've seen you make this argument before yet I still don't see what perks they get that make up for having to run two basic energy types.

Name one dragon type card that would be usable without DDE. IIRC even with DDE still in rotation the only deck with a top 16 placement that has used them since Guardians is that Darkrai/Dragonair deck, and the dragons in that deck are even bigger DDE batteries than they used to be in the old Darkrai/Dragons lists.

There's clearly a problem here and dragon having too many perks and getting too much special treatment ain't it.

 

[wonderful_whismur]

With DDE or without DDE, Dragon should not have a basic type. It's the only type that encourages two types of energy. That's something special that we shouldn't lose. I think more types should have this kind of quirky style to add more flavour to the game.

 

[PMJ]

What don't I get? You seem to be the one missing the point behind the type. Pokemon players now don't want to do any work, like at all. You want the game to do all the work for you. This isn't a problem AT ALL for Vikavolt/Tapu Bulu deck, which run both Grass and Lightning energy. In case math is a problem here, that is too a two Energy deck.

Come on, dude, get serious. Literally the only reason the deck exists at all is because of you pull the damn energy out of your deck with an Ability and directly attach them to your Pokemon. You can do this once per Vikavolt per turn. You can possibly accelerate four Energy straight from your deck in one turn. And you want to complain about the game doing all the work for you?

Kommo-o-GX is a great card.

No it's not. Not every card is great. There exist bad cards in this game and Kommo-o-GX is one of them. Christ, the denial here is out of this world.

It's not used because no one figured out how to use it but you fail to realize what it does.

Get over yourself. Kommo-o-GX is not some secret mystical OP card that you're smart or cool for using. It's not used because it's entirely reliant on special energy. It's not used because all three of its attacks are awful. Adamantine Press is barely worth using and it's arguably his best attack. Shred's cost is too expensive, especially with DDE rotating out. You can't Elixir to it directly and Aqua Patch doesn't work on him so have fun consistently attaching four Energy in a format where the top decks can out-damage you with half the work and give up half the prizes. Ultra Uppercut GX is, in fairness, a nuke. It's a solid, bone-crushing attack that doesn't require all the bells and whistles that some other GX attacks do in order to do large amounts of damage. But it's once a game, and it shouldn't hold much weight when determining Kommo-o's worth.

Shred is a Dragon exclusive attack, which ignores any effect. Do you know how powerful that is?

The attack name "Shred" is exclusive to dragons, but Shred's effect has been used on lots of attacks, so nice try.

That new A. Ninetales coming out gets nuked by this while no other type that has a GX or EX can hit it back. Kommo-o-GX doesn't need Hex Maniac but EVERY OTHER TYPE does. That is one less card you need to put into your deck.

Oh no, people might have to use Garbotoxin or play around it by either using Lysandre/Guzma/Repel/Escape Rope or a non-GX attacker. Please, god, no, anything but that, I'll do anything if it means not doing what everyone has been doing since Safeguard abilities became a thing.

Oh, lets not forget about that new Rayquaza card with 190 damage printed on the card, which is a Pokemon with a history of being used, despite needing two Energy types.

Maybe it has less to do with two Energy types and more to do with Rayquaza typically having usable attacks. Losing DDE is going to make using Shining Rayquaza a lot less appealing, but the fact that it's a basic that can do 220 with a band equipped means that someone somewhere will find use for it.

DDE doesn't need to be reprinted. It ran it course and had its time to shine and now it rotates like everything else because it's not a Energy that needs to exist but while we're at it, I'd LOVE to have Boost Energy reprinted because I love the idea of a one Energy Mach Cyclone or Scramble Energy. Those Energy have never been reprinted.

If the "Kommo-o is good" line wasn't enough, this proves you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

DDE is what made dragons viable in the first place. Being able to get around the awful consistency issues that running two basic Energy brings was a godsend. DDE let you still attack and still run only one color of basic energy. If you're going to try to make the argument that DDE isn't necessary, please do not make me wet my pants with laughter by suggesting PCL reprint one of the most broken energies in the game. Just because Mega Pidgeot and some irrelevant shitmons can use Boost Energy effectively doesn't mean it needs to come back. And if you really think Triple Rainbow When You're Losing Energy needs a comeback then you should probably quit playing competitively and stick to league only.

I'm surprised to not hear you complain about them bringing back Warp Energy, which rotated out ages ago and was not an energy that needed to exist because we have T O N S of switching support already.

Guess what, the Colorless type can't hit for Weakness as well and I don't want to hear "well, they have DCE" because it isn't a argument since the Colorless type are the worst users of DCE.

>Aerodactyl FAC
>Mega Audino
>Drampa-GX
>Gumshoos-GX
>Lugia
>Lugia-EX
>Mega Pidgeot?????
>Mega Ray
>Oranguru
>Raticate BREAK
>Shaymin-EX
>Snorlax FAC
>Snorlax-GX
>Tauros-GX

Wow, look at all these awful Colorless Pokemon who suck at using DCE. None of these Pokemon have attacks worth blowing one of your four DCEs on - bulk rares, all.

You are completely missing the point, as usual. Colorless Pokemon are the worst users of DCE because they can't hit for weakness? Unlike Dragon, Colorless Pokemon's attack costs can be paid with whatever Energy you want. It makes them able to be comfortably splashed into any deck, unlike dragons who are only even a little viable in a deck that runs those specific Energy types - assuming you would even want to do that anyway. The fact that they can also use the DCE that you'd be using for your colored attackers, along with the energy that you're already using for your attackers, makes Colorless Pokemon among the best in the game. It is not a coincidence that the above list of normals are, or were at one point, strong (except Mega Pidgeot which only you give a shit about).

I still want a Flying type but I do agree they need to diversify Weakness. I hate how mainstream they made it. I'd love for Psychic to be weak to Darkness and for Darkness to be weak to Fairy. I think the whole thing needs to be overhauled.

Dark already has Resistance advantage over Psychic; no need to make Psychic take double damage from them as well.

Expanding Dragon and Fairy to be weak to something besides only Fairy and only Steel would be a good start. Expanding Dark and Fire would be okay but Dragon and Fairy are the worst offenders.

 

[Serperior]

Kommo-o-GX is a great card. It's not used because no one figured out how to use it

With that logic, Wishiwashi-GX isn't a hot pile of steamy garbage.

You have to understand that not all cards can be good, man. I love Serperior, but I realize Fates Collide Serperior is garbo. You can't win em all.

 

[Olimar.Inc]

Come on, dude, get serious. Literally the only reason the deck exists at all is because of you pull the damn energy out of your deck with an Ability and directly attach them to your Pokemon. You can do this once per Vikavolt per turn. You can possibly accelerate four Energy straight from your deck in one turn. And you want to complain about the game doing all the work for you?



No it's not. Not every card is great. There exist bad cards in this game and Kommo-o-GX is one of them. Christ, the denial here is out of this world.



Get over yourself. Kommo-o-GX is not some secret mystical OP card that you're smart or cool for using. It's not used because it's entirely reliant on special energy. It's not used because all three of its attacks are awful. Adamantine Press is barely worth using and it's arguably his best attack. Shred's cost is too expensive, especially with DDE rotating out. You can't Elixir to it directly and Aqua Patch doesn't work on him so have fun consistently attaching four Energy in a format where the top decks can out-damage you with half the work and give up half the prizes. Ultra Uppercut GX is, in fairness, a nuke. It's a solid, bone-crushing attack that doesn't require all the bells and whistles that some other GX attacks do in order to do large amounts of damage. But it's once a game, and it shouldn't hold much weight when determining Kommo-o's worth.



The attack name "Shred" is exclusive to dragons, but Shred's effect has been used on lots of attacks, so nice try.



Oh no, people might have to use Garbotoxin or play around it by either using Lysandre/Guzma/Repel/Escape Rope or a non-GX attacker. Please, god, no, anything but that, I'll do anything if it means not doing what everyone has been doing since Safeguard abilities became a thing.




Maybe it has less to do with two Energy types and more to do with Rayquaza typically having usable attacks. Losing DDE is going to make using Shining Rayquaza a lot less appealing, but the fact that it's a basic that can do 220 with a band equipped means that someone somewhere will find use for it.


If the "Kommo-o is good" line wasn't enough, this proves you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

DDE is what made dragons viable in the first place. Being able to get around the awful consistency issues that running two basic Energy brings was a godsend. DDE let you still attack and still run only one color of basic energy. If you're going to try to make the argument that DDE isn't necessary, please do not make me wet my pants with laughter by suggesting PCL reprint one of the most broken energies in the game. Just because Mega Pidgeot and some irrelevant shitmons can use Boost Energy effectively doesn't mean it needs to come back. And if you really think Triple Rainbow When You're Losing Energy needs a comeback then you should probably quit playing competitively and stick to league only.

I'm surprised to not hear you complain about them bringing back Warp Energy, which rotated out ages ago and was not an energy that needed to exist because we have T O N S of switching support already.




>Aerodactyl FAC
>Mega Audino
>Drampa-GX
>Gumshoos-GX
>Lugia
>Lugia-EX
>Mega Pidgeot??
>Mega Ray
>Oranguru
>Raticate BREAK
>Shaymin-EX
>Snorlax FAC
>Snorlax-GX
>Tauros-GX

Wow, look at all these awful Colorless Pokemon who suck at using DCE. None of these Pokemon have attacks worth blowing one of your four DCEs on - bulk rares, all.

You are completely missing the point, as usual. Colorless Pokemon are the worst users of DCE because they can't hit for weakness? Unlike Dragon, Colorless Pokemon's attack costs can be paid with whatever Energy you want. It makes them able to be comfortably splashed into any deck, unlike dragons who are only even a little viable in a deck that runs those specific Energy types - assuming you would even want to do that anyway. The fact that they can also use the DCE that you'd be using for your colored attackers, along with the energy that you're already using for your attackers, makes Colorless Pokemon among the best in the game. It is not a coincidence that the above list of normals are, or were at one point, strong (except Mega Pidgeot which only you give a shit about).



Dark already has Resistance advantage over Psychic; no need to make Psychic take double damage from them as well.

Expanding Dragon and Fairy to be weak to something besides only Fairy and only Steel would be a good start. Expanding Dark and Fire would be okay but Dragon and Fairy are the worst offenders.

This argument is "My opinion is the truth and if you disagree you are a fatty" if you can't play a card does not mean it's bad. I see that you can't really be open minded about a lot of things and you'll get your jimjams rustled so quit your temper tantrum and grow up. If you really did not care you would not have put a big fuss, a lot of people have made cards that people thought were bad but put with the right cards and abilities they become godly. So in the future be more open minded and accepting and if you have to lose your nuts over tiny comments you disagree with just ignore them or just give them a small little insight with out ruining their day. So have a good day or night my pal and have a fun amount of time in your life. :^) I can't for the death threat replies my guys :^)

 

[PMJ]

Okay. I'll take this bait.

This argument is "My opinion is the truth and if you disagree you are a fatty"

Not really. He hasn't backed up his opinion with anything other than a suggestion that since it doesn't require any outside resources to beat Alolan Ninetales, that Kommo-o is good, never mind that since Shred is your main attack you should want a way to power it up reliably - which we are losing to the rotation.

if you can't play a card does not mean it's bad.

Yes it does, and I understand that 'bad' is relative because new sets come out all the time. Right now, in this format, Kommo-o is bad.

I see that you can't really be open minded about a lot of things and you'll get your jimjams rustled so quit your temper tantrum and grow up. If you really did not care you would not have put a big fuss,

I never said I didn't care. If I didn't care, I wouldn't post. I get triggered by people like you two who have this "everyone's a winner" mindset and insist that X card is really good guys but have nothing to back up their claims.

a lot of people have made cards that people thought were bad but put with the right cards and abilities they become godly.

Those cards don't exist for Kommo-o and nothing in the foreseeable future looks like it's going to help him out either. Masked Royal doesn't even work on him.

So in the future be more open minded and accepting and if you have to lose your nuts over tiny comments you disagree with just ignore them or just give them a small little insight with out ruining their day. So have a good day or night my pal and have a fun amount of time in your life. :^) I can't for the death threat replies my guys :^)

I'm plenty open minded. I would be more than happy to admit I was wrong if anyone in the world could come up with a winning Kommo-o list that can top more than a League Challenge, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I give crystal_pidgeot advice all the time but he ignores it :[

I wish you the best, newfriend :^) I hope you stick around and post more.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

With that logic, Wishiwashi-GX isn't a hot pile of steamy garbage.

You have to understand that not all cards can be good, man. I love Serperior, but I realize Fates Collide Serperior is garbo. You can't win em all.

I don't say a lot of cards are bad. The best example of a bad card is Magnezone-EX. This cad doesn't have a saving grace and would be what I would call a bad card. Wishiwashi-GX can make use of Golduck BREAK. Sure a five Energy attack isn't ideal but it's usable. Lets break it down!

For a single Water Energy, it can hit 20 damage, and if you have Choice Band on it, you're getting 50 damage for one Energy! You can make that 70 for one with Kukui. This is also 100 or 140 for one with Weakness, which means you autowin Volcanion or any other fire match. That is too good to pass up. Its five Energy attack (if used with Golduck BREAK) isn't even a factor and if you need to sack it, you can get 220 with the GX attack and then move all the Energy to the Bench. It's not idea but it could be a post rotation deck. Lets not forget it's a Basic Pokemon with 210 HP.

On the last point, to be honest with you, most non-EX/GX Pokemon are trash. If Serperior had a EX (does it have one or any of the gen 5 starters for that matter?), I'm sure it would at least be usable.

@PMJ getting around to it.

 

[Dave Summers]

Sorry if there's any grammar mistakes, it's 3 a.m. here

Yooo this became a crazy shitfest. I won't get into other peoples arguments - as much as I want I'll stay on the topic in hand.

----

I know the game isn't all the competitive factor, so I'll be taking both a casual aspect and a competitive one to conclude my topic.

If I know my facts, the dual-type mechanic for dragons started on... ex-Dragon. We got some things to combo with them, such as High Pressure System to use with Salamence and Latias, and Low Pressure System to use with Flygon and Latios. I do think they got the mechanic spot-on there, but on following years it was kinda... Strange.

Fast Foward to Dragons Exalted! This set got me back on both the casual and competitive side of Pokémon. Gabite got your boys and Garchomp hits 100 for only 1 Water and 1 Fighting - exactly as dragons should work. Altaria buffed the squad, and later on Haxorus would goddamn Strike of the Champion all of the Plasma meta away. Not to note Rayquaza going high tier with Inferno Fandango and Dynamotor to back it up.

Fast Foward again to Roaring Skies, and I was quite unhappy with... Everything. The attack costs were pretty big again - and I know they were back then on Dragons Exalted, such as Giratina-EX and Hydreigon - but only to show off Double Dragon Energy: now you don't have to do anything! As Crystal Pidgeot said, the game did it for you.

I don't like how the game got more and more lazy over the years. I do feel like Sun and Moon is slowly changing this, and people are starting to crack their heads open to understand a little further down how the game works and how can they take advantage of it (see all the Zoroark decks today).

So, my view is: No.

If you want to go the lazy and boring way, make dragons get a basic energy and continue destroying the fun of the game.

If you want dragons to keep being different options that can fit on different playstyles and deck-building styles, keep the things how they were and should be.

Some balancing would be good, yes, but I don't think that dragons should be weak to themselves (Never Forget Mewtwo-EX). They should be strong enough to use various energy types and not hit anything for weakness, just everything for lots of damage.

 

[taschen88]

I think in terms of the "lore" of Pokemon, Dragons have always been rarer than the rest of the other Pokemon. Not by the number of species there are per se, but their rarity/distribution in the wild. In the main video games for at least 5 generations now Dragons have usually been hard to find and/or usually appear much later in the game.

Now onto Dragons in the TCG: I am glad that Dragon has officially been added in the BW era as a distinct typing. And inconvenient as it is, the usually 2 types of Energy required to attack are fitting to the "oh, look at me, I'm a fanciful dragon" theme of being supposedly rare, powerful creatures. And that only Dragons are strong against Dragons was great in the BW era. But since the XY era Dragon type has been assigned to be weak to Fairy, a lot of its species apparently common Pokemon. I think the problem with this is that, while Dragon types are relatively hard to come by in the TCG, they are all now weak to Fairy type. And Fairy decks have always had good deck synergy so far (trainers, abilities) but Dragon decks don't have much. And I think that's what makes Dragon type difficult to use.

Perhaps it's not absolutely necessary to make a Basic Dragon Energy. But what this current SM era needs to add more cards (items, stadiums, supporters, maybe) and Dragon type Pokemon themselves that do well with their fellow Dragons. In the XY era, ROS Reshiram was okay, but rather limited to Fire Energy support. PHF Hydreigon-EX's ability was good, too, but not as good as BKP Manaphy-EX's (a Water type). And Double Dragon Energy was great for Dragons - an exclusive special energy that makes Dragons attack way faster, with a fair drawback of being vulnerable to Enhanced Hammer and Xerosic. Personally I loved my ROS Salamence deck back when the XY era only had 6 or 7 sets out. And BKT Haxorus was good, too. It just wasn't an era where Dragon type cards were to be on the spotlight.

K enough rambling, I still think Dragons can do fine using other types' Energy cost. Just that this relatively new SM era needs to give our beloved Dragons some item, supporter, stadium, ability support. Well, spread throughout the upcoming expansion sets anyway.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Come on, dude, get serious. Literally the only reason the deck exists at all is because of you pull the damn energy out of your deck with an Ability and directly attach them to your Pokemon. You can do this once per Vikavolt per turn. You can possibly accelerate four Energy straight from your deck in one turn. And you want to complain about the game doing all the work for you?

This is still a deck with two Energy types. it doesn't matter where they come from. Dragon deck can use Dragonair as their engine to get energy in play.

No it's not. Not every card is great. There exist bad cards in this game and Kommo-o-GX is one of them. Christ, the denial here is out of this world.

I'm not saying every card is good. Kommo-o-GX isn't a bad card. Sure I don't want to pull it out of packs, as do most of you but I'm also sure no one here wants to pull Pidgeot-EX out of a pack either. It's not a great card but it's not bad either. Kommo-o-GX can't be blocked and that's something you're not seeing.

Get over yourself. Kommo-o-GX is not some secret mystical OP card that you're smart or cool for using. It's not used because it's entirely reliant on special energy. It's not used because all three of its attacks are awful. Adamantine Press is barely worth using and it's arguably his best attack. Shred's cost is too expensive, especially with DDE rotating out. You can't Elixir to it directly and Aqua Patch doesn't work on him so have fun consistently attaching four Energy in a format where the top decks can out-damage you with half the work and give up half the prizes. Ultra Uppercut GX is, in fairness, a nuke. It's a solid, bone-crushing attack that doesn't require all the bells and whistles that some other GX attacks do in order to do large amounts of damage. But it's once a game, and it shouldn't hold much weight when determining Kommo-o's worth.

I know it's not Jesus' best friend but I look at cards as a whole and think about how one could use it. I will admit the deck is slow, even with DDE but I look at it and see the same thing happening to every Stage 2 deck, even with support. Water decks aren't top tier right now because of Max Elixir and Aqua Patch. The problem for Stage 2 decks is the speed of the game.

The attack name "Shred" is exclusive to dragons, but Shred's effect has been used on lots of attacks, so nice try.

Sure, this is true but the only Pokemon I can think of that has a move like that is Yanmega BREAK.

Oh no, people might have to use Garbotoxin or play around it by either using Lysandre/Guzma/Repel/Escape Rope or a non-GX attacker. Please, god, no, anything but that, I'll do anything if it means not doing what everyone has been doing since Safeguard abilities became a thing.

But, but, Kommo-o-GX doesn't have to do this...

Maybe it has less to do with two Energy types and more to do with Rayquaza typically having usable attacks. Losing DDE is going to make using Shining Rayquaza a lot less appealing, but the fact that it's a basic that can do 220 with a band equipped means that someone somewhere will find use for it.

A perk of the Dragon type, right? And Charizard, can't forget about the OG Dragon.

If the "Kommo-o is good" line wasn't enough, this proves you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Is this the best you got? You were one of those people who said Mega Audino-EX sucked didn't you?

DDE is what made dragons viable in the first place. Being able to get around the awful consistency issues that running two basic Energy brings was a godsend. DDE let you still attack and still run only one color of basic energy. If you're going to try to make the argument that DDE isn't necessary, please do not make me wet my pants with laughter by suggesting PCL reprint one of the most broken energies in the game. Just because Mega Pidgeot and some irrelevant shitmons can use Boost Energy effectively doesn't mean it needs to come back. And if you really think Triple Rainbow When You're Losing Energy needs a comeback then you should probably quit playing competitively and stick to league only.

I'm not saying it didn't but no one here said why it exactly needs to be reprinted. Why not reprint Boost Energy or Scramble Energy? I know Colorless Pokemon will be better with it and how well they would synergize with Max Potion. Why doesn't Mega Pidgeot deserve its one Energy Max Potion Mach Cyclone and Noivern-GX deserves a one Energy item lock? God forbid you have to *shutter* wait a turn to attack!

I'm surprised to not hear you complain about them bringing back Warp Energy, which rotated out ages ago and was not an energy that needed to exist because we have T O N S of switching support already.

Well, DCE was out of the game for like 12 years before it came back. Warp Energy has been out of the game for a while too. It's not like it's back in the very next format.

>Aerodactyl FAC
>Mega Audino
>Drampa-GX
>Gumshoos-GX
>Lugia
>Lugia-EX
>Mega Pidgeot??
>Mega Ray
>Oranguru
>Raticate BREAK
>Shaymin-EX
>Snorlax FAC
>Snorlax-GX
>Tauros-GX

Wow, look at all these awful Colorless Pokemon who suck at using DCE. None of these Pokemon have attacks worth blowing one of your four DCEs on - bulk rares, all.

Lets look at all the non-Colorless users.

- Espeon-GX
- Umbreon-GX
- Jolteon-EX
- Glaceon-EX
- Tapu Lele-GX
- Tapu Koko Promo
- Garbodor GR
- Zoroark
- M Mewtwo-EX
- Primarina-GX
- Glalie-EX
- Decidueye-GX
- Lycanroc-GX
- Charizard
- Magearna-EX
- Turtonator-GX
- Yveltal-EX
- Mewtwo-EX
- Gyarados
- Raichu
- Gallade
- Zebstrika
- Vespiquen
- Flareon
- Trevenant
- Regice
- Honchkrow
- etc...

You get the point.

You are completely missing the point, as usual. Colorless Pokemon are the worst users of DCE because they can't hit for weakness? Unlike Dragon, Colorless Pokemon's attack costs can be paid with whatever Energy you want. It makes them able to be comfortably splashed into any deck, unlike dragons who are only even a little viable in a deck that runs those specific Energy types - assuming you would even want to do that anyway. The fact that they can also use the DCE that you'd be using for your colored attackers, along with the energy that you're already using for your attackers, makes Colorless Pokemon among the best in the game. It is not a coincidence that the above list of normals are, or were at one point, strong (except Mega Pidgeot which only you give a shit about).

Missing what point? Sure their attack cost can be paid with whatever I want but that doesn't mean anything. Yes Colorless Pokemon can be splashed but so can most other types. I can put a Tapu Lele-GX in any deck I want, just like Tauros-GX, or any other Pokemon that requires a DCE attack cost. Not all Dragon type Pokemon need to be viable, just like most Pokemon in a type aren't viable. Me any by bird bro are doing well for ourselves. Just ask my friend.

Just a fyi, calm down bro. Most of what you said wasn't even called for.

 

[wonderful_whismur]

Yes. This thread needs some chill. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, so matter how convoluted. Like I proposed a Lurantis-GX/Giratina-EX/Garbodor GRI deck but no one shot me down. Looking back it definitely would be terrible but it would also be fun to do! I'm sure Kommo-O GX will be great with a Lair of Ferocious Dragons stadium.

 

[Nyora]

Kommo-o GX is only good if your a memer like me. Everyone shut up about Kommo-o. If you wanna play competitively, burn it or sell it for cash.

Dragon Types do need a buff. Of course. Definitely not their own basic energy, but I agree they need more stuff.

Agh CrystalPidgeot and PMJ just Kiss already!

 

[Olimar.Inc]

Okay. I'll take this bait.



Not really. He hasn't backed up his opinion with anything other than a suggestion that since it doesn't require any outside resources to beat Alolan Ninetales, that Kommo-o is good, never mind that since Shred is your main attack you should want a way to power it up reliably - which we are losing to the rotation.




Yes it does, and I understand that 'bad' is relative because new sets come out all the time. Right now, in this format, Kommo-o is bad.



I never said I didn't care. If I didn't care, I wouldn't post. I get triggered by people like you two who have this "everyone's a winner" mindset and insist that X card is really good guys but have nothing to back up their claims.



Those cards don't exist for Kommo-o and nothing in the foreseeable future looks like it's going to help him out either. Masked Royal doesn't even work on him.




I'm plenty open minded. I would be more than happy to admit I was wrong if anyone in the world could come up with a winning Kommo-o list that can top more than a League Challenge, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I give crystal_pidgeot advice all the time but he ignores it :[

I wish you the best, newfriend :^) I hope you stick around and post more.

Was not trying to be rude it's just how you said the things to crystal_pidgeot and how rude it was when you explain something to someone or point them right direction it does not help to yell or curse at them it can really bring them down