So I run yanmega/vespiquen in the new standard and have done decently with it. What I'm wondering is if you beachers think that it has viability post rotation. All the deck really loses is battle compressor and team flare tools. The meta definitely did change a lot and night march isn't dominating the format anymore so that could effect the deck. What do you guys think of running Yanmega vespiquen post rotation?
Discussion Yanmega / Vespiquen After Rotation
- Thread starter zaratath
- Start date
I think it's a cool deck idea, but loses so hard to Garb. If you can consistently find a way to deny Garb then it could be really good.
Um... unless I'm horribly mistaken, and I could be... Expanded doesn't have a "rotation" and we haven't had Battle Compressor/Team Flare Tools in Standard for a while now. Because of this and the rest of your post, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to ask. You seem to have positive results in Standard and as @TheGuardian118 stated, Yanmega in general has problems with Garbodor (in both formats), so as long as you're aware of that, I am confused as to what this thread is about.
That said, if this thread is about the viability of Yanmega BREAK/Vespiquen in the current formats, we can have a strong discussion. Still, I think it would be best if you elaborate before any of us continue.
I'd love to discuss more once you do so, however!
-Asmer
If you haven't yet read my opinion on Yanmega in the current meta I would suggest checking that out in the meta deck section.
On the other hand here is my deck that runs Vespiquen, it doesn't get shut down by garbador as badly as the Yanmega variant:
* 4 Talonflame STS 96
* 1 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 4 Klefki STS 80
* 4 Combee AOR 9
* 4 Vespiquen AOR 10
* 2 Blitzle BKP 48
* 2 Zebstrika BKP 49
* 3 Litwick STS 48
* 4 Unown AOR 30
##Trainer Cards - 28
* 2 Bursting Balloon BKP 97
* 3 Ultra Ball DEX 102
* 3 Faded Town AOR 73
* 1 Lysandre AOR 78
* 2 Special Charge STS 105
* 4 VS Seeker ROS 110
* 2 Revitalizer GEN 70
* 3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 2 Parallel City BKT 145
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 2 N DEX 96
##Energy - 4
* 4 Double Colorless Energy LTR 113
the basis is that I can just discard pokemon with ultra ball/klefki/unown and then get back Vespiquens with revitalizer. Some changes you can make are adding more revitalizer, and changing faded town to FOGP
On the other hand here is my deck that runs Vespiquen, it doesn't get shut down by garbador as badly as the Yanmega variant:
* 4 Talonflame STS 96
* 1 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 4 Klefki STS 80
* 4 Combee AOR 9
* 4 Vespiquen AOR 10
* 2 Blitzle BKP 48
* 2 Zebstrika BKP 49
* 3 Litwick STS 48
* 4 Unown AOR 30
##Trainer Cards - 28
* 2 Bursting Balloon BKP 97
* 3 Ultra Ball DEX 102
* 3 Faded Town AOR 73
* 1 Lysandre AOR 78
* 2 Special Charge STS 105
* 4 VS Seeker ROS 110
* 2 Revitalizer GEN 70
* 3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 2 Parallel City BKT 145
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 2 N DEX 96
##Energy - 4
* 4 Double Colorless Energy LTR 113
the basis is that I can just discard pokemon with ultra ball/klefki/unown and then get back Vespiquens with revitalizer. Some changes you can make are adding more revitalizer, and changing faded town to FOGP
Hey, so sorry for not being clear about this. I just wanted to talk about Yanmega/Vespiquen in the current standard format.
Oh okay, no problems!
I honestly think the deck would be really strong if not for the following:
A. Yveltal-EX is an extremely strong card/deck.
B. Garbodor is a very good card.
C. Yveltal-EX can use Garbodor with little issue.
I think that's the reason Alex Hill opted for Zebstrika with Vespiquen. It allowed him to take on what was seemingly going to be the top deck at the European International and it did work (he unfortunately landed in 9th). Besides that, however, I feel like Yanmega/Yanmega BREAK lacks the appropriate damage to be truly competitive right now. 100 damage isn't exactly the best thing in the world and Vileplume Box isn't exactly the most common site, meaning breaking through Walls isn't a priority right now (also, there are other cards that easily fill this role, like Pokemon Ranger). I think it is a great way to learn how Vespiquen works as a whole, however, so it's definitely not a bad starting place.
Still, I think moving forward, Yanmega BREAK will be left behind unless the big numbers become obsolete to utility. We'll have to wait and see on that one.
-Asmer
Thanks!! Those are all definitely valid points. One thing I have come across is that the yveltal exs aren't that hard to knock out with a bursting ballon and vespiquen. With this in mind it means that it can take on Yveltal Garbodor. Maybe i'm just lucky or maybe this may actually work. I'm not sure. Tell me what you think!!
Its pretty bad
overall the basis is that Garbador is a huge contender this format for most broken card. It shuts down all abilities and basically kills yanmega. Yanmega has no chance in most top tier match ups because it doesnt hit hard enough even when it isnt shut down. On the other hand vespiquen is pretty good, and it actually does have a lot of trouble with Yveltal. Most to do with the fact that by turn 2 it can already attack, and vespi wont be able to hit for 210 on turn 2, so do be vigilant
Well, the problem is that unless you're able to set up a massive damage Vespiquen through the Bursting Balloon turn, a more intelligent simply won't attack in to the Balloon and will either attempt to set up Garbodor (if he/she sees the Yanma) or will attempt to bait out what I feel is going to be the new tech of this deck: Zebstrika. Now, while I won't go in to the full rant I want to about Zebstrika, I will say a couple things with him in comparison to Yanmega BREAK:
1. Zebstrika is VERY good vs Yveltal EX/Garbodor. Yanmega BREAK is not for the multiple reasons stated in this thread.
2. Zebstrika is near useless against Vespiquen's lesser match-ups (Volcanion, M Scizor EX). Yanmega BREAK can actually help set up KOs against these Pokemon, especially because Yanmega BREAK is weak to Lightning Damage and not Fire.
3. Zebstrika cannot actually kill Yanmega BREAK. xP
Okay, so number three was absolutely pointless to this topic, but I digress. What I will say is that Bursting Balloon makes your other difficult matches much easier. Forcing a M Scizor EX attack in to your Balloon means Vespiquen has an opportunity to actually KO it the turn after, which is something it typically cannot do otherwise. Hitting a Barrier Break on Volcanion STS while having a Bursting Balloon on means it cannot attack you or it will die, even with a Fighting Fury Belt. Zebstrika cannot help in the same regard in either match-up, which is something that should be noted.
In other words, if you want to play Yanmega BREAK as a partner to Vespiquen (and to be honest, that's what this deck is: Vespiquen + Whatever Feels Correct), you have to ask yourself whether or not you feel the place you'll be playing in is going to have a lot of Garbodor and/or a lot of things that simply kill you right off the bat.
I hope this helps! It's a lot to think about and I do like Yanmega BREAK as a concept, but I feel that it is unfortunately washed out by things that simply ruin fun times. xP
-Asmer
Why can't zebstrika "kill" Yamega break. Is there something I'm missing because I know that zebstrika can do 220 to lightning weak. Fighting resistance pokemon.
Weakness/Resistance is involved in the damage calculation. Zap Zone only takes into consideration effects on the opposing Pokémon. It does not interact with the damage calculation, unless the effect influences the calculation. Like attacks that place an effect "Take 20 less damage next turn" and so on, Zap Zone would ignore that.
Also, most Yveltal decks run Garb, which would shut down Zap Zone anyway.
Also, most Yveltal decks run Garb, which would shut down Zap Zone anyway.
Because I does the maffs sleepy well when.
Good catch. I feel silly for messing that up.
-Asmer
Okay, thanks so much!!!