Discussion XY-On Discussion

[FoxKin45]

Hello everyone. I want to spend some time talking about what decks we think will be popular in the XY-Onward meta game. To list a few off the top of my head heres what I have

1. Seismitoad Variants
2. Yveltal Variants
3. M Manectric Variants.
4, M Rayquaza *colorless

If you guys have some thoughts on which variants for these decks will be strong please post below! Ideas for any rogue decks or new decks that might pop up? Feel free to share. Any input is appreciated!

 

[RequiemCrysis]

Seismitoad/Crobat or Seismitoad/Crawdaunt will be still decent. Other variants don't seems good anymore since they lost LaserBank, losing huge amount of damage.

Yveltal might bit weaker, but tbh M Rayquaza colorless deck seems better Yveltal right now. Definitely needs other dark type attacker though.

I still don't know optimal M Manectric deck. Running dual mega lines don't appeal me. But if we get good electric type attacker(not mega), we may see its use.

M Rayquaza is too powerful, and doesn't affected by XY-on rotation at all(it can still run without N right now). Many people will prepare counter for it, though.

 

[FoxKin45]

Seismitoad/Crobat or Seismitoad/Crawdaunt will be still decent. Other variants don't seems good anymore since they lost LaserBank, losing huge amount of damage.

Yveltal might bit weaker, but tbh M Rayquaza colorless deck seems better Yveltal right now. Definitely needs other dark type attacker though.

I still don't know optimal M Manectric deck. Running dual mega lines don't appeal me. But if we get good electric type attacker(not mega), we may see its use.

M Rayquaza is too powerful, and doesn't affected by XY-on rotation at all(it can still run without N right now). Many people will prepare counter for it, though.

Thanks for your input! I have been experimenting with Toad/Craw but just seem to be lacking damage to kill off exs and might start testing Toad/Bats. From the sounds of things the meta is going to be in for a huge shake up, I cant think of any other really big meta game decks that will survive the rotation. Right now M. Gardevoir / Xerneas / Aromatisse looks to be really strong. What decks other then those listed do you think will be popular, and what do you plan on playing? Any rogue decks you see coming to life? Would love to know!

 

[bbninjas]

A few rogue decks that I think are going to shine are the Retreat-based decks, Magma Camerupt-EX and multiple Bats related variants. I also think things like M-Gallade-EX and M-Latias-EX are going to become good after the disappearance of Mime.

 

[TheStrictNein]

Both the Primals will stick around, mainly due to Mega Turbo.

 

[asdjklghty]

LatiBats might be good. That deck really reminds me of LuxApe in that is focuses on taking out opponent's weak support Pokemon for easy prizes.

 

[Fokale]

Other than the archetypes that have already been mentioned...

Dragon M rayquaza variants will be almost unaffected by the rotation.

Aromatisse variants lose max potion unless it's reprinted, but still seem pretty good. There are other methods of healing they could use, such as super potion or super scoop up, but my guess is it would be more optimal to make use of the space in some other way. I could see florges with sky field become good and I intend to test it. Either way, with all the support fairy has it should still see some play.

Fighting variants lose their best attacker (landorus EX), but still have many good pokemon (Lucario EX, hawlucha, and machamp come to mind), and incredible support. The new machamp EX may be playable in this type of deck, and also note that while the plasma storm zubat rotates out, the phantom forces crobat line will stay in format as well.

While the night march trio will still be legal, the deck will get hit hard by the rotation. I currently play night march/empoleon and from my deck list the cards lost include N, mew EX, empoleon, computer search, Mr. mime, and jirachi EX (which will be replaced by shaymin EX by the time rotation comes). I'm not saying it will be dead, I'm sure it will still see play, but people are going to need to get creative when building decks based around night march in the future format.

The steel or bronzong archetype (whatever you want to call it), is kind of in the same boat as night march.It keeps most of it's support, but loses the keldeo EX/float stone combo, which is a significant blow. M aggron can use mega turbo instead of bronzong, but even he loses victini (which could be replaced by trick coin but it's a lot harder to get into play). Not exactly sure how much we will see of this archetype (unless something similar to the keldeo combo comes out), as I don't see using a switching item being nearly as effective or consistent. I think bronzong is still good energy acceleration and could see some play in another deck within it's lifespan.

Finally, other decks that could appear...

Interesting to note, the venasaur EX/floette deck will still be legal, as will many miltank variants. We may finally see some stage 2 decks (fingers crossed) with the expected drop in Seismitoad EX decks being played. Sorry about the long post, it's a great topic, and I will post again if I think of any others.

 

[FoxKin45]

Other than the archetypes that have already been mentioned...

Dragon M rayquaza variants will be almost unaffected by the rotation.

Aromatisse variants lose max potion unless it's reprinted, but still seem pretty good. There are other methods of healing they could use, such as super potion or super scoop up, but my guess is it would be more optimal to make use of the space in some other way. I could see florges with sky field become good and I intend to test it. Either way, with all the support fairy has it should still see some play.

Fighting variants lose their best attacker (landorus EX), but still have many good pokemon (Lucario EX, hawlucha, and machamp come to mind), and incredible support. The new machamp EX may be playable in this type of deck, and also note that while the plasma storm zubat rotates out, the phantom forces crobat line will stay in format as well.

While the night march trio will still be legal, the deck will get hit hard by the rotation. I currently play night march/empoleon and from my deck list the cards lost include N, mew EX, empoleon, computer search, Mr. mime, and jirachi EX (which will be replaced by shaymin EX by the time rotation comes). I'm not saying it will be dead, I'm sure it will still see play, but people are going to need to get creative when building decks based around night march in the future format.

The steel or bronzong archetype (whatever you want to call it), is kind of in the same boat as night march.It keeps most of it's support, but loses the keldeo EX/float stone combo, which is a significant blow. M aggron can use mega turbo instead of bronzong, but even he loses victini (which could be replaced by trick coin but it's a lot harder to get into play). Not exactly sure how much we will see of this archetype (unless something similar to the keldeo combo comes out), as I don't see using a switching item being nearly as effective or consistent. I think bronzong is still good energy acceleration and could see some play in another deck within it's lifespan.

Finally, other decks that could appear...

Interesting to note, the venasaur EX/floette deck will still be legal, as will many miltank variants. We may finally see some stage 2 decks (fingers crossed) with the expected drop in Seismitoad EX decks being played. Sorry about the long post, it's a great topic, and I will post again if I think of any others.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah a lot of these decks seem really strong and viable, cant wait to look into some of them. I disagree on the Seismitoad deck point however. Im currently play testing Toad/Craw and Toad/Bats and both seem to be running relatively well. Only issue is a lack on damage but by opening up those lazer/bank slots we can add more disruption into the deck. Currently I am playing it with a couple redcards and it is a really nice tech. Thoughts on what other Toad variants will stay relevant?

 

[Jaaaaay]

While the night march trio will still be legal, the deck will get hit hard by the rotation. I currently play night march/empoleon and from my deck list the cards lost include N, mew EX, empoleon, computer search, Mr. mime, and jirachi EX

NM is still super good with out any of these. Ive personally never seen the point of Mew ex anyway, just a 2 prize liability.

 

[Ms Hugo]

I've been trying out several M-Manectric variants- 110 and energy accel is too fun. I include a 1-1 line of Yanmega to deal with the Toad/Groudon matchup, but haven't played either with this deck just yet.

I tested out Manectric/Yveltal and while the deck wasn't bad, I feel M-Man is wasted a bit on Yveltal- why not use it for a Pokemon that tends to have issues setting up, I thought.

A M-Man/Camerupt build that I tried actually worked out really well, though it may be a little slower than most decks (setting up in 2/3 turns seems to be slow in the current meta). This build lets you use the Fiery Torch and Scorched Earth engine to draw through your deck while getting energy into the discard, so you can accelerate it onto a Camerupt with M-Man. I actually managed to beat a Rayquaza deck with this, though the Rayquaza was a little slower than usual in getting set up, so that might be why.

I think M-Man is best used as a way to take 2HKOs while powering up something powerful on the bench (such as Camerupt or Shiftry, which I am testing soon) or as a way to soften up targets for other Pokemon to finish off (Yveltal). I'll definitely be teching Lugia-EX into a build once it's released.

 

[RequiemCrysis]

NM is still super good with out any of these. Ive personally never seen the point of Mew ex anyway, just a 2 prize liability.

You have only 4 DCE. There is no way to attack with one basic energy attach, what you will do after all 4 DCE burned out? You shouldn't assume Joltik/Pumpkaboo won't get OHKOed.

 

[asdjklghty]

All decks will either be Colorless Rayauaza decks or counters like Trevenant+Wally, M Manectric , Primal Groudon/Wobbuffet, Seismitoad or maybe Steel and Fairy?

 

[Jaaaaay]

You have only 4 DCE. There is no way to attack with one basic energy attach, what you will do after all 4 DCE burned out? You shouldn't assume Joltik/Pumpkaboo won't get OHKOed.

You play with the assumption that they will be return KOed. So you either kill 3 Exs so you dont run out of DCEs, or you trump card and mill through your deck again in the same turn. Very possible with Shaymin/Trainers Mail/Bikes.

EDIT: As to not turn this into a NM thread,

M Rayquaza dragon and Primal Groudon will be big contenders
Toad will be hurt by the reduction in damage output by losing Laserbank and will probably be over run by bigger hitters

 

[Otaku]

You play with the assumption that they will be return KOed. So you either kill 3 Exs so you dont run out of DCEs, or you trump card and mill through your deck again in the same turn. Very possible with Shaymin/Trainers Mail/Bikes.

I want this to be true but I am pretty bad at running Night March or seemingly building the deck. XD

M Rayquaza dragon and Primal Groudon will be big contenders

The latter is true right now; I've heard people talk about the former but I don't really see it on paper or on the PTCGO, though if it involves snagging all of the recent Dragon-Type support I suppose it could just be because most that could amass all that is needed are focusing on other things.

Toad will be hurt by the reduction in damage output by losing Laserbank and will probably be over run by bigger hitters

I want this to be true but given how often I've got something to deal with Poison already, I doubt it. The deck will be diminished and slower, but it also frees up the slots that used to go to Laser/Bank.

 

[Talkingcat]

I've been trying out several M-Manectric variants- 110 and energy accel is too fun. I include a 1-1 line of Yanmega to deal with the Toad/Groudon matchup, but haven't played either with this deck just yet.

I tested out Manectric/Yveltal and while the deck wasn't bad, I feel M-Man is wasted a bit on Yveltal- why not use it for a Pokemon that tends to have issues setting up, I thought.

A M-Man/Camerupt build that I tried actually worked out really well, though it may be a little slower than most decks (setting up in 2/3 turns seems to be slow in the current meta). This build lets you use the Fiery Torch and Scorched Earth engine to draw through your deck while getting energy into the discard, so you can accelerate it onto a Camerupt with M-Man. I actually managed to beat a Rayquaza deck with this, though the Rayquaza was a little slower than usual in getting set up, so that might be why.

I think M-Man is best used as a way to take 2HKOs while powering up something powerful on the bench (such as Camerupt or Shiftry, which I am testing soon) or as a way to soften up targets for other Pokemon to finish off (Yveltal). I'll definitely be teching Lugia-EX into a build once it's released.

With M-Manectric/Yveltal, the M-Manectric can build lots of energy onto the Yveltal so that it can hit a massive Evil Ball. Although you need quite a few turbo bolts before you can one shot a charged-up mega. But the option is there. Yveltal destroys Trevanant, too. An evil ball will always one-shot a Trevanant even if the Trevanant has no energy.

I think Toad/Manectric will be a good deck. If the deck starts well it can have the option of either item-locking with toad or hitting stuff with assault laser (and dropping Team Flare Hyper Gear for good measure). It doesn't one-shot anything both approaches are obviously disruptive. Because you have Toad you are strong against the Battle Compressor decks, and the assault laser/flare gear combination both slows down the other player (if they are using EXs) and stacks up damage very quickly. Crucially, both options seem good against M-Ray.

 

[NintendoAlian]

Now that some of the cards of M Sceptile have been revealed, I think it will quickly be popular. Also, Vileplume has been revealed so that will be interesting to see what happens.
Also, I feel people are underrating Trevenant/Shaymin though. While Seismitoad still is around, without LaserBank, it's extremely worse. But, Trevenant does 60 and 20-20 snipe, which I have been testing with Absol ROS for an interesting combo for next year.

 

[Otaku]

Now that some of the cards of M Sceptile have been revealed, I think it will quickly be popular. Also, Vileplume has been revealed so that will be interesting to see what happens.
Also, I feel people are underrating Trevenant/Shaymin though. While Seismitoad still is around, without LaserBank, it's extremely worse. But, Trevenant does 60 and 20-20 snipe, which I have been testing with Absol ROS for an interesting combo for next year.

Trevenant should not be underestimated now, so it shouldn't be then either. The thing is neither should Seismitoad-EX; yes it loses some tricks but its gaining others and it has so much already going for it. Remember when facing lock decks, the entire point is that they are ruining your set-up so it is okay they don't hit as hard.