Finished Werewolf XXXI: Grima's Rebirth - GAME OVER! TOWN WINS!

[Athena]

Didn't someone point out earlier that it was likely that the scum are Valmese? If Tiki's worshipped in Valm, wouldn't that make her an antagonistic character? Could the announcer be scum?

Valm kind of goes through a civil war during the course of the game. Although many of the Valmese that you meet are antagonists, there are members of a "Resistance" that join Chrom and the Shepherds and would definitely be considered good guys. Tiki's one of them, another is Say'ri. Yen'fay is kind of on the fence; he's Say'ri's brother and a boss that you fight, but his actual feelings and motivations are more aligned with the Shepherds and he's basically only fighting because he was blackmailed.

Technically, you can recruit him as a PC in a special, extra level right before endgame... but you can also recruit Walhart and Aversa (who in the actual storyline are basically 100% baddies through and through), and Gangrel (who I think is most fitting as an OMT type, but I could also seem him scum-aligned).

 

[thegrovylekid]

Valm kind of goes through a civil war during the course of the game. Although many of the Valmese that you meet are antagonists, there are members of a "Resistance" that join Chrom and the Shepherds and would definitely be considered good guys. Tiki's one of them, another is Say'ri. Yen'fay is kind of on the fence; he's Say'ri's brother and a boss that you fight, but his actual feelings and motivations are more aligned with the Shepherds and he's basically only fighting because he was blackmailed.

Technically, you can recruit him as a PC in a special, extra level right before endgame... but you can also recruit Walhart and Aversa (who in the actual storyline are basically 100% baddies through and through), and Gangrel (who I think is most fitting as an OMT type, but I could also seem him scum-aligned).

I think my biggest guess to the scum teams would be Valm and Grimleal, which would also make sense for double scum considering what Walhart's feeling about the Grimleal [If I recall correctly, Walhart was trying to conquer everything to stop the Grimleal.], and there's three of each of them, like ORAS.

Valm: Yen'Fay, Walhart, Pheros and/or Excellus
Grimleal: Validar, Aversa, Grima[Robin]

That's my best guess, though it also says this in the OP:

There may be a third, smaller faction, commonly known as the Independents.

If there is an indy, Gangrel would probably make the most sense. He's really an anti-hero in the end, and he's also not aligned with either of the greater powers of Valm and Grimleal.

Those are just my thoughts on the scum teams. Do these seem realistic?

 

[Professor Palutena]

It makes sense and I agree with it.

But I don't think it's worth considering because flavor doesn't help scumhunt when used in this situation.

Like does it really matter who is on the Valm team when all we know are the characters? Unless we know who the players behind the characters are, it's never going to help us.

 

[mordacazir]

I think my biggest guess to the scum teams would be Valm and Grimleal, which would also make sense for double scum considering what Walhart's feeling about the Grimleal [If I recall correctly, Walhart was trying to conquer everything to stop the Grimleal.], and there's three of each of them, like ORAS.

Valm: Yen'Fay, Walhart, Pheros and/or Excellus
Grimleal: Validar, Aversa, Grima[Robin]

That's my best guess, though it also says this in the OP:



If there is an indy, Gangrel would probably make the most sense. He's really an anti-hero in the end, and he's also not aligned with either of the greater powers of Valm and Grimleal.

Those are just my thoughts on the scum teams. Do these seem realistic?

Yes.
For now i just put a random vote. (Not really that random)
##vote: thegroyvlekid

 

[GM DracLord]

Since I never played this game, I do read some bit from the wiki but not playing really make me hard to understand. So forgive me for not understanding the name/character alignment logic.

Tiki is recruitable by the player and therefore a Shepherd, therefore town.

I'll talk about Drac when I'm not walking a puppy.

So when will that be..

 

[mordacazir]

Yes.
For now i just put a random vote. (Not really that random)
##vote: thegroyvlekid

Wait, what said there was completely wrong, first I disagree, then I agree.

 

[thegrovylekid]

Yes.
For now i just put a random vote. (Not really that random)
##vote: thegroyvlekid

This isn't a random vote. This is a bandwagon.

 

[Celever]

OK, ##UNVOTE.

 

[Professor Palutena]

@Celever : Why GM Draclord and not TGK?

@Celever - Did you get a second seal last night?

Mind explaining why you're asking this?

@thegrovylekid If you don't want us to kill you, who should we kill? You aren't providing any other options here.

 

[The Healer]

After thinking through D1, I have several people who I wouldn't mind lynching. My top three picks, however, would be TGK, for generally non-contributory posts that haven't changed much, and morda, for the role-fish that made SS role-reveal as doctor, and Celever, for his oddly obsessive defense of TGK.
After reading through a couple other games, I'm really feeling...odd about the fact that Camo and Celever are not trying to tear each other to bits yet. While it really isn't anything that I can draw a conclusion from, it just doesn't sit well with me at all.
Why did Celever suddenly vote GM Draclord and then just as suddenly unvote him? This is another thing that seems odd.

And yes, The Voice is most definitively a reference to Tiki, though I'm still on the fence as to why we actually need to know this information. Knowing who the character's are doesn't tell us which players are scum and which are not.

Yeah...I don't really have much to say at the moment that hasn't already been said. I'll keep reading and posting, though.

 

[bbninjas]

@bbninjas, do you have nothing to say about my last post where I talked about the usefulness of SS's lynch? It was primarily directed at you as a response to your big post.

Oh, whelp, yeah, I do have stuff to say. xD

I honestly don't think we can gleam much from the SS lynch. It's exactly the same as every D1 lynch. Either Camo or I pressure someone over nothing (in fact, Camo noticed something which is a better lead than most D1s to start off with) and then the person getting pressured panics. There was an influx of votes on SS, moreso than normal, but this isn't scummy in and of itself.

I... don't understand why you're trying to write off information from a lynch! When/how players vote (bandwagon, provide reason, etc) will certainly give us information to look at, because if a vote is odd, the player may be playing oddly. Players that seem to be focusing on a single lynch can mean something is up, just like how I went about pushing for Celever's lynch Day 1 last game. Posting my thoughts on it now could even prove useful later if TGK ends up flipping, especially if he flips scum.

The issue with SS' wagon is that he defended himself too poorly for us to be able to get anything out of it.

I think this is a poor generalisation. I think SS gave good defense on all points except for two (AtE) and the I'm Town, which were questionable but still plausible reasons.

He provided objective and incriminating evidence against himself (stating that his role had a connection with Chrom's role and then that not being the case). This was convincing enough for even bb to jump on him over, who is generally quite a conservative voter. As such, those who were on SS's wagon weren't scummy, because they were attacking the equivalent of confoscum due to the incriminating evidence he provided for us.

No, it was only "equivalent" when he claimed a full role after you pointed out the issue. Only Xerneas', Luis' and my votes will potentially fall into a "vote because confoscum" basket. I'm looking at those who planted their votes before then, where the SS lynch was certainly not as solid and was comparable to the TGK option.

Why did Celever feel like pointing out this is a joke when it is already clearly obvious? on another side: why Camoclone didn't response to him like he always does when someone's voting for him during RVS? those are little weird things along the way that makes me feel something is fishy between these two.

@Celever, do you have any comments on this?

 

[bbninjas]

Also, my read on Athena just dropped to "scummy". Notice how most of her posts are contributing to the discussion of flavour. Really the only contribution of scumhunting she has given is echoing the "Camo and Celever not fighting is weird". I thought this was going to be a Day 1 thing, but it appears not...

 

[bbninjas]

I think you know.

[Future reference.] This really isn't sitting with me well. It is possible that Celever knows something; whether that is a townie (role) or scummy (informed) thing, I'm unsure.

 

[Professor Palutena]

OK, ##UNVOTE.

Thinking about it, I find this post rather suspicious.

Draclord vote literally comes out of nowhere with a promise for future explanation. The vote is then quickly removed with no explanation or even provocation.

Celever is also rather odd for being the one person defending TGK, who is, right now, considered the prime scum read and was a dominant scum read Day 1.

For TGK, I'm willing to attribute part (but not all) of his suspicious behavior on account of being relatively new. Celever has been playing here for years and he should know better. He's rubbing me the wrong way to the point that I'm finding him more scummy than TGK soooooooo...

##SCRUB: Celever

This makes the most sense to me right now in terms of obtaining info as it may explain his cooperation with Camo and/or his defense of TGK.

 

[Scattered mind]

Also, my read on Athena just dropped to "scummy". Notice how most of her posts are contributing to the discussion of flavour. Really the only contribution of scumhunting she has given is echoing the "Camo and Celever not fighting is weird". I thought this was going to be a Day 1 thing, but it appears not...

Yeah that is something I noticed D1 and she keeps doing it now. I cannot see this as a joke on Camo anymore and instead- it seems like an actual act of scummy tunneling.

 

[Scattered mind]

And yes, The Voice is most definitively a reference to Tiki, though I'm still on the fence as to why we actually need to know this information. Knowing who the character's are doesn't tell us which players are scum and which are not.

Guys, if you think this flavour talk is not helping please stop talking about it as it gives inactive players something to use in order to comment without contributing.

 

[Celever]

Oh, whelp, yeah, I do have stuff to say. xD


I... don't understand why you're trying to write off information from a lynch! When/how players vote (bandwagon, provide reason, etc) will certainly give us information to look at, because if a vote is odd, the player may be playing oddly. Players that seem to be focusing on a single lynch can mean something is up, just like how I went about pushing for Celever's lynch Day 1 last game. Posting my thoughts on it now could even prove useful later if TGK ends up flipping, especially if he flips scum.


I think this is a poor generalisation. I think SS gave good defense on all points except for two (AtE) and the I'm Town, which were questionable but still plausible reasons.


No, it was only "equivalent" when he claimed a full role after you pointed out the issue. Only Xerneas', Luis' and my votes will potentially fall into a "vote because confoscum" basket. I'm looking at those who planted their votes before then, where the SS lynch was certainly not as solid and was comparable to the TGK option.


@Celever, do you have any comments on this?

The point was that I don't think there were any odd votes yesterday without looking into things too much and therefore reaching. Furthermore, lynch votes can be construed in several different ways. I think TGK's vote yesterday was just self-preservation, which is affiliation neutral to townie somewhere on D1, not scummy. Other people interpret his vote differently. Lynch analysis on Day 2 is essentially stating the subjective as objective fact, and it doesn't sit right with me for that reason. Obviously later on it's a quintessential tool once voting patterns are established, and not one-off votes.

And I have no comment on me saying that an obvious joke was a joke. What's scummy about it?

Thinking about it, I find this post rather suspicious.

Draclord vote literally comes out of nowhere with a promise for future explanation. The vote is then quickly removed with no explanation or even provocation.

Celever is also rather odd for being the one person defending TGK, who is, right now, considered the prime scum read and was a dominant scum read Day 1.

For TGK, I'm willing to attribute part (but not all) of his suspicious behavior on account of being relatively new. Celever has been playing here for years and he should know better. He's rubbing me the wrong way to the point that I'm finding him more scummy than TGK soooooooo...

##SCRUB: Celever

This makes the most sense to me right now in terms of obtaining info as it may explain his cooperation with Camo and/or his defense of TGK.

This game is a good example of one person saying something and that becoming a fact due to people hearing it over and over again. I haven't really addressed TGK and I've done this on purpose, so I haven't defended him at all. Just because I'm active and not talking about TGK, it doesn't mean I'm defending him any more than Thena, Drac, IE or any of the other more inactive players.

My vote on Drac was to see a reaction from him. I find that generally the best way to get a read on him is to take him by surprise. He reacted very well, so I unvoted. It's as simple as that. Nothing else was really happening, so I thought it was a good opportunity. *shrugs*

 

[bbninjas]

The point was that I don't think there were any odd votes yesterday without looking into things too much and therefore reaching. Furthermore, lynch votes can be construed in several different ways. I think TGK's vote yesterday was just self-preservation, which is affiliation neutral to townie somewhere on D1, not scummy. Other people interpret his vote differently. Lynch analysis on Day 2 is essentially stating the subjective as objective fact, and it doesn't sit right with me for that reason. Obviously later on it's a quintessential tool once voting patterns are established, and not one-off votes.

Hmmmm, I think I am seeing were you are coming from. Aaaand it looks like we're just going to completely disagree with each other so we're going to get nowhere.

I think TGK's vote yesterday was just self-preservation, which is affiliation neutral to townie somewhere on D1, not scummy.

Although I have to say that his vote was made before SS was really a decent option, so it originally would have been a bandwagon over a self-pres if I am recalling correctly.

And I have no comment on me saying that an obvious joke was a joke. What's scummy about it?

If we are referring to the same thing, it is because TGK was another option. But, uh, I think I'm getting confused here, because I didn't find your vote particularly scummy, but instead neutral.

 

[Celever]

Although I have to say that his vote was made before SS was really a decent option, so it originally would have been a bandwagon over a self-pres if I am recalling correctly.

You might be right in that it was before SS was a massive option, but neither was TGK at the time, so they were both pretty even, therefore it was still self-preservation, I think.

If we are referring to the same thing, it is because TGK was another option. But, uh, I think I'm getting confused here, because I didn't find your vote particularly scummy, but instead neutral.

I was responding to scattered there

 

[bbninjas]

You might be right in that it was before SS was a massive option, but neither was TGK at the time, so they were both pretty even, therefore it was still self-preservation, I think.

Yay we both disagree on this too! v.v

I was responding to scattered there

Oh okay xD