Blog Unexplored Territory: Musings on the New Format and a Review of a Future Rogue Deck

I like that Raichu is coming back into the fold its a necessary deck in the meta for the lack of good electric Pokemon to counter M Ray and Yveltal. But it loses muscle band which is actually a pretty big deal when your not hitting for weakness as its max output is now only 160 so I think at least one Giovanni's Scheme is necessary in this deck, but ultimately its just not good enough to hit neutral targets, and with the increased popularity of Parallel city it's really gonna have a hard time finding its place in the meta. Parallel city might single handedly kill both Raichu and M Ray as its just way too devastating, you lose so much momentum when that stadium is played. Also M Ray can attack going second were as without wally its just not possible to do so with Raichu. Also this deck needs to run Shaymin-EX, running Garbo doesn't mean you can't run any abilities yourself. And because M Ray is EX heavy Hoopa (Hoopa=3-4 Bridget is only 3 and you can play 2 Hoopa in one turn while still leaving your support slot open) can power up M Ray far far faster than Raichu can ever dream of while hitting for 80 more. It sucks that we basically don't have any good electrics yet and I just don't think Raichu is going to be good enough, but I could be wrong, only time will tell on how this meta evolves.
 
You say that most decks can hit for 100+ damage, but you have to realize that many of those decks rely on Abilities to set up and swing for that much. Everything from Shaymin-EX to Magnezone to any other energy acceleration is totally worthless after a T1 Garbodor with Wally and a Float Stone.
 
OntheMooFarm said:
You say that most decks can hit for 100+ damage, but you have to realize that many of those decks rely on Abilities to set up and swing for that much. Everything from Shaymin-EX to Magnezone to any other energy acceleration is totally worthless after a T1 Garbodor with Wally and a Float Stone.
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You people need to stop glorifying Garbodor, T1 Garbodors are not a thing, Garbo is a tech card, its not the star of the show, if your deck runs more than a 2-2 lineup than its already bad, if it runs more than 2 wally that are used only for Garbo than your decks bad, and sure ability lock hurts some cards more than others but I can tell you rn Shaymin-EX is going to be the least hurt from it because 80% of shaymin are played turn one (when they are the most effective) and T1 Garbo is not a thing, your better of just running more than 1 Hex maniac than this extremely clunky T1 Garbo setup which is going to be harder to pull off in the first place with Battle compressor gone. Ability lock is not item lock, here is an example of how item lock hurts Shaymin more than ability lock could ever, most decks get shaymin out with an ultra ball and even if your running 4 60% (Yes 60% because you also have trainers mail) of the time you will still be getting it out with an ultra ball its also the preferred method as it shrinks your hand size at the same time. Second reason, items are usually your best way to shrink your hand to capitalize on shaymin's draw power. People need to stop treating Garbodor like he is Trev. Garbodor is entirely healthy for the meta, so stop crying about not having tool removal, we will most likely be getting some form of it in the future anyways, and then you can start crying about shadow stitching greninja.
 
did people here remember a card call Zebstrika BKP? gurantee OHKO M Rayquaza ex with DCE, so it can be a tech in every deck to counter M Rayquaza ex too
 
SpoonLarry said:
I like that Raichu is coming back into the fold its a necessary deck in the meta for the lack of good electric Pokemon to counter M Ray and Yveltal. But it loses muscle band which is actually a pretty big deal when your not hitting for weakness as its max output is now only 160 so I think at least one Giovanni's Scheme is necessary in this deck, but ultimately its just not good enough to hit neutral targets, and with the increased popularity of Parallel city it's really gonna have a hard time finding its place in the meta. Parallel city might single handedly kill both Raichu and M Ray as its just way too devastating, you lose so much momentum when that stadium is played. Also M Ray can attack going second were as without wally its just not possible to do so with Raichu. Also this deck needs to run Shaymin-EX, running Garbo doesn't mean you can't run any abilities yourself. And because M Ray is EX heavy Hoopa (Hoopa=3-4 Bridget is only 3 and you can play 2 Hoopa in one turn while still leaving your support slot open) can power up M Ray far far faster than Raichu can ever dream of while hitting for 80 more. It sucks that we basically don't have any good electrics yet and I just don't think Raichu is going to be good enough, but I could be wrong, only time will tell on how this meta evolves.
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Have you seen Zebstrika?
 
SpoonLarry said:
You people need to stop glorifying Garbodor, T1 Garbodors are not a thing, Garbo is a tech card, its not the star of the show, if your deck runs more than a 2-2 lineup than its already bad, if it runs more than 2 wally that are used only for Garbo than your decks bad, and sure ability lock hurts some cards more than others but I can tell you rn Shaymin-EX is going to be the least hurt from it because 80% of shaymin are played turn one (when they are the most effective) and T1 Garbo is not a thing, your better of just running more than 1 Hex maniac than this extremely clunky T1 Garbo setup which is going to be harder to pull off in the first place with Battle compressor gone. Ability lock is not item lock, here is an example of how item lock hurts Shaymin more than ability lock could ever, most decks get shaymin out with an ultra ball and even if your running 4 60% (Yes 60% because you also have trainers mail) of the time you will still be getting it out with an ultra ball its also the preferred method as it shrinks your hand size at the same time. Second reason, items are usually your best way to shrink your hand to capitalize on shaymin's draw power. People need to stop treating Garbodor like he is Trev. Garbodor is entirely healthy for the meta, so stop crying about not having tool removal, we will most likely be getting some form of it in the future anyways, and then you can start crying about shadow stitching greninja.
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You must be using Garbodor.
 
Game_Loss said:
Have you seen Zebstrika?
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Lmao, I had a good laugh. Raichu isn't good because it can hit M Ray for weakness, its good because it can do dmg consistently for cheap. Zebstrika does literally nothing other than hit for weakness, its a win more effect that only works if your already capitalizing on your strength maybe lol, and on top of that its a stage 1, so splashing it in isn't even worth finding the space to put in any deck that isn't already Raichu for its ability. But by all means have fun with the card.
 
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OntheMooFarm said:
You must be using Garbodor.
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I've tried and I have been seriously considering removing it from my deck, it has thus far done nothing for me, 2/2 lineup isn't very consistent and putting more isn't worth cause the card isn't that great, the card does nothing on its own, which is why its a tech card, and if your deck is putting 30% of its resources in making it consistent and playable turn one, every deck that doesn't require abilities will shit on you, which is almost every good deck, and that's only assuming you win the coin flip. The only valuable ability your shutting off in most good decks is Shaymin-EX and if your not going first they are probably going to use it anyways. Giratina-EX doesn't care, any dark deck basically doesn't care, any deck that uses Glacion/Jolteon/Regice doesnt care, mewtwo doesn't care, Groudon doesn't care, unless you go first M Ray doesn't care cause they will more often than not setup turn one far more often than you will same goes for Raichu... The only decks you are outright crippling are Greninja, and Alakazam if someone finds a way to make it work with all the things its losing, anything else is just going to be a supper gimmicky deck that sucks to begin with.
 
SpoonLarry said:
Lmao, I had a good laugh. Raichu isn't good because it can hit M Ray for weakness, its good because it can do dmg consistently for cheap. Zebstrika does literally nothing other than hit for weakness, its a win more effect that only works if your already capitalizing on your strength maybe lol, and on top of that its a stage 1, so splashing it in isn't even worth finding the space to put in any deck that isn't already Raichu for its ability. But by all means have fun with the card.
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I'm pretty sure if you want a stage 1 attacker that hits consistent damage for a DCE, you should look at zoroark. Zebstrika is the best counter for electric weak flying pokemon.
 
Game_Loss said:
I'm pretty sure if you want a stage 1 attacker that hits consistent damage for a DCE, you should look at zoroark. Zebstrika is the best counter for electric weak flying pokemon.
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If by consistent you mean by hoping your opponent plays to your strengths, than no I'd rather not play a card that only works if my opponent is stupid. The moment they see a zorua they wont fill the bench for you. And with Parallel city being popular they can very easily shrink there own bench size, most decks that use the stadium can use it both ways. I never said Zebstrika should be used at all I said quite the opposite, the only thing I mentioned of the card being noteworthy was it's ability to allow electric types to bypass things like Jolteon, Glacion, Regice, and Jirachi, but I still think its an awful card.
 
SpoonLarry said:
If by consistent you mean by hoping your opponent plays to your strengths, than no I'd rather not play a card that only works if my opponent is stupid. The moment they see a zorua they wont fill the bench for you. And with Parallel city being popular they can very easily shrink there own bench size, most decks that use the stadium can use it both ways. I never said Zebstrika should be used at all I said quite the opposite, the only thing I mentioned of the card being noteworthy was it's ability to allow electric types to bypass things like Jolteon, Glacion, Regice, and Jirachi, but I still think its an awful card.
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Captivating Pokepuff? You play your opponents pokemon down for them
 
Game_Loss said:
Captivating Pokepuff? You play your opponents pokemon down for them
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Just another terribly inconsistent card for an already inconsistent pokemon, while still not giving you an answer to parallel city, and trust me parallel city will be used in almost every deck, even greninja will ditch rough seas for it. Cards aren't good if you need to rely on a very gimmicky solution to there already big weakness, sure your solution can work, but how often will it work, most the time 5 isn't even enough for a knock out anyways with muscle band rotating you only hit 160 so you have to pray your opponent uses skyfield, so even your ideal scenario, in most cases will still not be good enough for you.
 
Yeah I'm with spoonlarry on this one, Zoroark is ok, but too easy to play around by any good player. And pokepuff doesn't go far enough. Raichu is a pretty tried and tested counter, and is good against things other than Mega Ray, a Raichu/Garb deck could be very solid if the right list came along. However I don't think a quad Zebstriker list would be very effective in general tbh. Raichu is the safe bet if you want a good electric line up. Zebstriker could be ok as a 1-1 line in other decks, that way you can KO other electric weak pokemon such as Yveltel and the like without having to rely on having a skyfield and filled bench.
 
SpoonLarry said:
You people need to stop glorifying Garbodor, T1 Garbodors are not a thing, Garbo is a tech card, its not the star of the show, if your deck runs more than a 2-2 lineup than its already bad, if it runs more than 2 wally that are used only for Garbo than your decks bad, and sure ability lock hurts some cards more than others but I can tell you rn Shaymin-EX is going to be the least hurt from it because 80% of shaymin are played turn one (when they are the most effective) and T1 Garbo is not a thing, your better of just running more than 1 Hex maniac than this extremely clunky T1 Garbo setup which is going to be harder to pull off in the first place with Battle compressor gone. Ability lock is not item lock, here is an example of how item lock hurts Shaymin more than ability lock could ever, most decks get shaymin out with an ultra ball and even if your running 4 60% (Yes 60% because you also have trainers mail) of the time you will still be getting it out with an ultra ball its also the preferred method as it shrinks your hand size at the same time. Second reason, items are usually your best way to shrink your hand to capitalize on shaymin's draw power. People need to stop treating Garbodor like he is Trev. Garbodor is entirely healthy for the meta, so stop crying about not having tool removal, we will most likely be getting some form of it in the future anyways, and then you can start crying about shadow stitching greninja.
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Yes I agree about the Garbodor stand point, and even if they do MIRACULOUSLY get a T1 Garbage Bag then you still get your T1 Shaymins by winning the coin flip. Also, SHADOW STITCHING FROGFACE AT MINIMUM TAKES TWO TURNS TO GET OUT!!! . . . sorry just had to get that out. Like you said Spoon Larry, the ability lock is more pointed towards late game because it's rather stupid to try to get the turn one lock. Its a waste of trainer cards to focus your turn one on a stupid garbage bag.

So no matter what happens you will pretty much always get your, turn one Shaymins and what not so there really is no need to complain.
 
LiftoffLizard said:
Yes I agree about the Garbodor stand point, and even if they do MIRACULOUSLY get a T1 Garbage Bag then you still get your T1 Shaymins by winning the coin flip. Also, SHADOW STITCHING FROGFACE AT MINIMUM TAKES TWO TURNS TO GET OUT!!! . . . sorry just had to get that out. Like you said Spoon Larry, the ability lock is more pointed towards late game because it's rather stupid to try to get the turn one lock. Its a waste of trainer cards to focus your turn one on a stupid garbage bag.

So no matter what happens you will pretty much always get your, turn one Shaymins and what not so there really is no need to complain.
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I'm aware of the slower setup of greninja its the decks greatest weakness, I have mentioned it in other posts and topics. What makes shadow stitching so strong is that your not shutting off your own abilities, so its essentially the quaking punch of abilities and its not even the decks strong point, its just another thing it can do while still being very powerful.

Game_Loss said:
I don't see how putting pokepuff in a deck with zoroark is bad.
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pokepuff is not the problem, zoroark being a good meta call is the problem, and pokepuff isn't good enough to make a card work that already isn't good enough, a better and more reliable card would have been target whistle as good players will usually only limit there bench so that zoroak is just shy of its KO so that they can maximize the use of there bench, a 2 shot is a 2 shot whether you hit for 50% or 90% of the targets health, but that card is rotating so you lose that option anyways. This is also an example of misusing a good card, because I actually think pokepuff is a very creative and good card, but for different reasons. It's good at shutting down Shayman's and Hoopa if you get lucky, but its greatest strength is the information it gives you.
 
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SpoonLarry said:
I'm aware of the slower setup of greninja its the decks greatest weakness, I have mentioned it in other posts and topics. What makes shadow stitching so strong is that your not shutting off your own abilities, so its essentially the quaking punch of abilities and its not even the decks strong point, its just another thing it can do while still being very powerful.



pokepuff is not the problem, zoroark being a good meta call is the problem, and pokepuff isn't good enough to make a card work that already isn't good enough, a better and more reliable card would have been target whistle as good players will usually only limit there bench so that zoroak is just shy of its KO so that they can maximize the use of there bench, a 2 shot is a 2 shot whether you hit for 50% or 90% of the targets health, but that card is rotating so you lose that option anyways. This is also an example of misusing a good card, because I actually think pokepuff is a very creative and good card, but for different reasons. It's good at shutting down Shayman's and Hoopa if you get lucky, but its greatest strength is the information it gives you.
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Oh no no, I know that you already knew that about Greninja, I was just making a larger point to the community. Anyway though, given the 2017 rotation, the deck setups will begin to seem naturally slower due to the death of Night March, Battle Compressor, and even Blacksmith. So I don't think even T2 Garb will be as common as all may think. Plus with this rotation coming on there are really only a couple of abilities that are used a lot (Shaymin EX, Hoopa EX, Greninja) and really only one of those matchups could be difficult for the opposing side of Garb (Greninja). But with Greninja you can easily snipe off the Trubbish and go about the rest of the game with no problem (Assuming you didn't get a crud hand).
 
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