Blog The Return of an Old Friend: A Look at Pidgeot-EX for Standard!

Emskas said:
Amazing article! It was truly a great read, i'd love to see more articles done by yourself in the coming while!

Putting aside our earlier quarrels on this topic, i'd like to know where you think Pidgeot will go in the next few months (competitively) until the season is over, a prediction of sorts.

Would love to hear your thoughts!

Emskas
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I'm glad you enjoyed it and don't worry. I never thought we had beef between us. Debates are healthy in my opinion! As for where I think Pidgeot stands in the meta, its kind of hard to say. However, I can say it largely depends on where the meta stands on Yveltal and Rayquaza. Since they are both popular and share a weakness to lightning with a fighting resistance are are the decks to beat, an increase of Zebstrika could ruin Pidgeot's day and given the success of the recent Yveltal/Garbodor list, we may see them.

Pidgeot will do much better if those decks fall out of favor. Should the game adopt a 2HKO play style, that too will favor Pidgeot. For right now though, it largely depends on what Yveltal EX does. Since a Pidgeot deck did get 9th place at a Regional, that would be at least 3 decks with some kind of tournament result that share a common weakness.
 
A follow up to the many hours of play testing with Pidgeot EX and M Pidgeot EX. I have had much more fun running Pidgeot EX without the mega. The extra card space (some 8+ cards) let me run additional cards such as Crushing Hammer, Team Flare Grunts and Pokemon Center Lady without removing core cards. The only problem I have with the list is its weakness to Rattata. I find it too big to overlook considering how well M Gardevoir EX is doing. As for the M Pidgeot EX build, with my testing, I found that I didn't need more than two Mega Pidgeot in my deck and spend time sitting with a Pidgeot EX in the active spot with Mega Pidgeot playing support. The reason to not completely remove Mega Pidgeot is its ability to kill Fright Night Yveltal in a single hit, which can be made possible through Mega Turbo DCE. It also can KO Greninja in a single hit whereas Pidgeot would need two turns, which can mean a extra damage on the board.

Puzzle of Time has been a godsend to the deck. The ability to recover any two cards you need is just too powerful. This was also the reason to cut a Mega Pidgeot from the deck because I can always recover them. I replaced that Mega Pidgeot with a Bunnelby because I found a number of turns were nothing happened and with Mega Pidgeot having free retreat cost, we can bring in Bunnelby and recover resources. I want to do more testing with Bunnelby but in theory, giving up 1 prize card to recover 2 or more resources is well worth the trade so rather than waiting for them to do something, we can be adding cards back to the deck. In the few games I have used it, I found it to be harder to use than I thought. Since we play Puzzle of Time, we want to make sure we can still have usable cards to recover should we need them. The skill here is knowing what to shuffle back into the deck and at what time. For example, we may want to have one Max Potion in our discard pile for Puzzle of Time, same for DCE.

I have been playing the deck with one Pidgeot Spirit Link to see how it preforms with it and based on games I've played, we still had those free turns to mega evolve and when we did need to have a Mega Pidgeot down, we normally played just the one spirit link. Things here seem to be working as planned. As for some matchups, I added two Hex Manic to the list, which helps a ton against Greninja BREAK and Volcanion EX. Its not enough to put the matches hugely in our favor but its something though Volcanion EX is a special case. I've ran into builds that ran between zero and four Stadium cards and we play Silent Lab. In each game I played, winning the Stadium war means I can lock down their abilities and prevent them from hitting me hard, meaning we can trade better. What I want to do is remove a Shrine of Memories and put in a second Silent Lab. Another thing I made a personal choice of was to remove one Float Stone and Mega Turbo and replace them Energy Retrieval and Olympia. I'm having mixed feelings about Energy Retrieval because Energy Reset is just as good but there were times when any of these cards were helpful but Olympia was good.

I tested with one and two copies of Skyla and have been going back and forth between them. having one Skyla puts things into chance for me but in games where I needed to see Skyla, I was always feeling like I needed to see a second one so I feel as of now that two Skyla is the right answer. I'm not really sure how to optimize Skyla at this point. Another card that seems to put in a lot of work is Fighting Fury Belt. With this, you now have the option to go between Pidgeot or Mega Pidgeot. This also improves other matchups like anything that run Giratina EX, since you have another fat attacker. Assault Vest is still in the deck but only as a single copy. I feel its good enough to stick around and out side of Bursting Balloon, I can't find another tool card that they both can use. Maybe Assault Vest is old fashion but I can't find anything else fun to replace it with that both Pidgeot and Mega Pidgeot can use.

For this build, Yveltal deck have been a complete joke. I seriously don't think Yveltal or even Dark decks in general can beat Pidgeot. This isn't me boasting or anything but for me, Dark decks have been very favorable for me and is a match I'd like to see, assuming things go right but the only decks I still believe Pidgeot fears is Greninja, Volcanion and any deck running lightning Pokemon.
 
Nice article man! I'm currently running a very similar deck.

* 4 Pidgeot-EX EVO 64
* 3 M Pidgeot-EX EVO 65
* 1 Magearna-EX STS 75
* 1 Registeel AOR 51
* 2 Remoraid BKT 31
* 2 Octillery BKT 33

* 1 Professor Sycamore STS 114
* 1 Skyla BCR 134
* 2 Pidgeot Spirit Link EVO 81
* 3 Shrine of Memories PRC 139
* 1 N DEX 96
* 2 Lysandre AOR 78
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 1 Parallel City BKT 145
* 1 Hex Maniac AOR 75
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
* 4 Ultra Ball FAC 113
* 3 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 134
* 2 Mega Turbo ROS 86
* 4 Max Potion BKP 103
* 1 Energy Reset FAC 98
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129

* 4 Double Colorless Energy FAC 114
* 6 Metal Energy XYEnergy 7

Your ideas of pidgeot changed my deck a lot (fe the magearna, the 1/3 syca/birch and 2 spirit links) but maybe you can think about a few extra cards. What if you play against a carbink and that hex maniac is priced? So it will be hard if you don't have a non-ex attacker. Thats why I put in Registeel > cobalion and mewtwo you mentioned. Registeel is also good if playing against M mewtwo (or darkrai), which can counter this deck. This makes sense why I also run team flare grunt in this deck.

I'm not a fan of Assault vest bc you want to do a lot of dmg w your mirror move after the max potion combo so I removed them and found my space to play 4 puzzle of time.
I also feel like 1 N is more then enough. Most of the decks are running N and it will be used against you a lot but if you have your octillery running there is no need to worry.
I feel like energy reset is a must have card in this deck. This card is INSANE! This card gave me the game so many times against many kind of match ups.

I once had the combination of: draw puzzle, had max potion and vs seeker in hand. Played vs seeker for Skyla, skyla for 2nd puzzle, brought back mega turbo and energy reset from discard pile. played energy reset for everything on M pidgeot (dce and steel), then max potion, mega turbo and could attach my dce as energy of the turn and that won me the game against Volcanions (hate that deck though xD).

Pidgeots are so fun to play with and people don't even know what they do until they see your combination but then hitting 130 (or an higher mirror move) every turn isn't something that can be taken lightly.

Any changes I could make if I had to:
A) -1 ultra ball +1 parall
B) -1 N, +1 Team flare grunt
C) -1 ultra ball +1 energy reset

Feel free to comment if you have any advice on this one :)
 
@GT Grex , I made a number of changes since then to adapt to the meta more. I did remove Assault Vest to my personal deck since there are a lot of Volcanion EX in my area. Also the only use of Special Energy happen to be on things like Giratina EX or other bench sitters for energy dump decks so it lost usefulness. I removed them and put in other cards. Funny enough I recently saw that Registeel and really liked it. I'm considering it for my deck now. I took out a M Pidgeot-EX and put in a bunnelby just to see how it works. I like it so far but there are little times I can actually use it but anytime I can get off one or two turns of Rototiller, pays for itself. My list now runs two Hex Maniac, which has helped greatly.

I do like that you are enjoying Energy Reset though. That card is so fun and can just win games. One tech I made was to run three Ultra Ball and one Pokemon Fan Club. In the event I get it in a opening hand, it can find me two Remoraids, which means I can get one going and to be honest with you, I do wish I could fit in one more. Overall your list looks super solid. This is my list right now.

4x Pidgeot-EX
2x M Pidgeot-EX
2x Remoraid
2x Octillery
1x Magearna-EX
1x Bunnelby

4x Puzzle of Time
4x Max Potion
3x Ultra Ball
3x VS Seeker
2x Enhanced Hammer
2x Pidgeot Spirit Link
1x Mega Turbo
1x Energy Retrieval (going to test Energy Reset next)
1x Float Stone
1x Fighting Fury Belt (For solo Pidgeot-EX)

2x Professor Birch's Observations
2x Lysandre
2x N
2x Hex Maniac
1x Team Flare Grunt
1x Pokemon Center Lady
1x Skyla
1x Professor Sycamore
1x Olympia
1x Pokemon Fan Club

3x Shrine of Memories
1x Silent Lab (Works wonders)

4x Metal Energy
4x DCE

I do want my third M Pidgeot-EX back in the deck but two feels pretty nice right now. I do want a non EX attacker and so far, Registeel like the right answer. Also because Fairy decks are popular in my area and the perk of discarding a Energy of a EX is nice. Right now, I just testing to see what I can use to improve other matchups but I'm glad you enjoyed this article! I had a lot of fun writing it.

I do want to know what you think of Skyla. I feel like this deck should be running two of them. For you, try going down to 8 or 9 energy and see what that does for you. You may be able to add in another card or two.
 
@crystal_pidgeot Ty for your feedback! I'm also working for a few months now to create and perfectionise this deck. So glad I've found someone who tries to do the same.
The first thing I asked myself looking your decklist: do you WANT to play M pidgeot? I think there are 2 options:
A. You remove the M pidgeot, spirit links and the shrine of memories which will give you 7! extra spots (skyla, registeel, float stone, ffb x2, +2 extra cards) and go all out with Pidgeot-ex.
B. You go for the M pidgeot but then you'll have to cut some cards (-1 FFB, +1 mega turbo)

I feel that Pidgeot is a counter deck. So we need counter cards and the material to get it. That's why I'm not a huge fan of ffb or Olympia in this deck (I also tested these before).

I do like the skyla card but I wouldn't place it at 2. One is more then enough and if you run 4 copies of vs seeker you can get it multiple times. Also I wouldn't cut energy cards. I have to use my birchs all the time to find myself some energy cards. And when you run 2 mega turbo you would definitely run at least 10 energies.

I do like the pokemon fan club! When I read your strategie I was thinking: teammates? (cause you said all that recycling power (bunnelby) is worth that 1 prize card) But when I see your pokemon fan club now I'm kinda interested how it works.

If I may change your deck a little:

4x Pidgeot-EX
2x M Pidgeot-EX
2x Remoraid
2x Octillery
1x Magearna-EX
1x Bunnelby
1x Registeel

4x Puzzle of Time
4x Max Potion
2x Ultra Ball
3x VS Seeker
2x Enhanced Hammer
2x Pidgeot Spirit Link
2x Mega Turbo
1x Energy Retrieval or Energy Reset (pref last one)
2x Float Stone

3x Professor Birch's Observations
2x Lysandre
1x N
1x Hex Maniac
1x Team Flare Grunt
1x Skyla
1x Professor Sycamore
1x Pokemon Fan Club / Teammates

3x Shrine of Memories
2x SilentLab (or -1 and +1 parralel city)

5x Metal Energy
4x DCE

I like the idea of Silent Lab, its a hex maniac in stadium. Even if you play against volcanions then you can play a first silent lab and when they destroy it you have a second one. (field control) Hex maniac also removes your octillery boost which silent lab doesn't. Let's try 9 energies and 2 mega turbo. If that doesn't work well you can remove a MT for a Skyla/vs seeker/Ultra Ball.
Let me know what you think.
 
@GT Grex The changes you made are some I'm going to try for sure. I want to try Registeel and see how it work. Considering fairy is big in my area, it may prove useful. For the Hex maniac, I have tested it at one many times and in several matchups, when I needed to have it, I didn't because it was prized or had no way to get it. I think two is perfectly fine. Your observation about the Energy is right though. I feel like 9 is a perfect number so I will be going up to at least that.

I did want a fifth stadium in the deck and I wanted it to be a second Silent Lab. This card can autowin Volcanion if they don't play many Stadium cards. Sometimes I get a Volcanion deck that doesn't even play Stadium cards and Mega Pidgeot can just poop all over the deck. I will start my testing rounds with Energy Reset now. Energy Retrieval has been useful for the times I needed it, but other than that, it just sits there and there where many times when I wanted that Energy Reset. I do want to try a Teammates in my list but I figured what you could get with a teammates wouldn't really matter in most cases.

A fun note on Pokemon Center Lady. I feel in the games I had it, it didn't really do anything. A lot of the meta either does heavy damage (enough to 2HKO you anyway after the 60 healing) or they just OHKO anyway, in which you want a better option. The only time I found it useful was maybe that one time against Greninja and I really do meant that one time, early game against dark decks, which is very useful or against and deck that is forced to get a 2HKO, which turns into a 3HKO after its use like Mega Scizor. In most cases against all other decks, its normally more useful early in the game but after that, you don't want to see it so I will be dropping it. I feel like the same is true for Super Potion but I want to test with it, since it isn't a Supporter.

As for the removal of a Ultra Ball, any reason behind that? I feel 3-1 (Ultra Ball and Pokemon Fan Club) is nice. In a few testing rounds I went with two Ultra Ball and two Pokemon Fan Club, I didn't notice any real benefit but did miss not having an extra Ultra Ball. On the other note, I do want a second Mega Turbo and a fifth metal Energy for sure.

Right now, I'm testing things I can get away with and see how it affects the overall decks and so far, it doesn't feel like the quality is worst as we can still hit the goals we want.

To answer your question on whether or not to run Pidgeot-EX by itself. I do like it because I can add more cheese to the list but the largest factor to me not running it is it loses badly to Mega Gardevoir, which is a matchup that is really important.


In this battle, you can see why. Rattata is too big a problem. Pidgeot EX doesn't do enough damage to really bother Mega Gaedevoir and they attack everything else that isn't a Pidgeot. At least with the mega, you can force them to attack you. 130 damage is such a nice number to have as well and with the disruption of the attack, you can cheese out game.

In every other matchup, I found having one FFB has been helpful. You can put it on your other basics and survive hits or force Grininja to do something they don't want to like using a GWS on a bunnelby with a FFB to KO it with an attack or something. It even lets Registeel OHKO Xerneas BREAK.
 
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@crystal_pidgeot This guy plays shaymin and jolteon ex. What we are aiming for is something different.

First of all I think 9 is a perfect number to play in this deck. The deck I'm running (without bby and hammers) has to play with 10 energy cards.
I would think you should keep hex maniac at 1. If you know it is priced and you do need it you can put in Rotom Pokédex in a few weeks.

To be honest I've never tried the energy retrieval card yet. I immediately started to play energy reset and I liked it so much! Even if your start pokémon is Magearna and you attach a metal and dce to it you can easily get those energy cards back. The card don't say it has to be from 1 pokémon. Since the first time I've played energy reset it felt like its a must-have in the deck to easy outplay your opponent.

Yeah the damage input is kinda high (nevermind the night march deck last rotation) this rotation but a mega pidgeot can handle most of the attacks. Thats why I'm not a fan of either olympia or center lady.

I must agree on your opinion though. I prefer to make a deck around M pidgeot w shrine of memories then a deck around Pidgeot.

When taking olympia out of the deck you defenitely need a retreat card, thats why I took out your ffb and placed a second float stone in again.

I'm gonna test 1 silent lab and 1 parra as well as 2 silent labs. I think 1 and 1 can get a volcanion deck caught offguard. you decrease his bench/decrease his dmg output or just remove there abilities. Kinda more options against other decks as well (darkrai/gira fe).

If you like pokemon fan club that much maybe its better to play 1 PFC and 2 ultra balls, otherwise you just could go for 3 ultra balls. You can play skyla for ultra ball, discard hand and get your pokemon, then use effect of octillery if he's up. That 1 card extra you draw CAN make a difference in the game. If you just play PFC you get your bench is full but get 2 cards less if you use octillery after that (considering you don't play anything after it). So it would speed up the deck if you played 3 ub > 2ub + 1 PFC.
 
GT Grex said:
@crystal_pidgeot This guy plays shaymin and jolteon ex. What we are aiming for is something different.

First of all I think 9 is a perfect number to play in this deck. The deck I'm running (without bby and hammers) has to play with 10 energy cards.
I would think you should keep hex maniac at 1. If you know it is priced and you do need it you can put in Rotom Pokédex in a few weeks.

To be honest I've never tried the energy retrieval card yet. I immediately started to play energy reset and I liked it so much! Even if your start pokémon is Magearna and you attach a metal and dce to it you can easily get those energy cards back. The card don't say it has to be from 1 pokémon. Since the first time I've played energy reset it felt like its a must-have in the deck to easy outplay your opponent.

Yeah the damage input is kinda high (nevermind the night march deck last rotation) this rotation but a mega pidgeot can handle most of the attacks. Thats why I'm not a fan of either olympia or center lady.

I must agree on your opinion though. I prefer to make a deck around M pidgeot w shrine of memories then a deck around Pidgeot.

When taking olympia out of the deck you defenitely need a retreat card, thats why I took out your ffb and placed a second float stone in again.

I'm gonna test 1 silent lab and 1 parra as well as 2 silent labs. I think 1 and 1 can get a volcanion deck caught offguard. you decrease his bench/decrease his dmg output or just remove there abilities. Kinda more options against other decks as well (darkrai/gira fe).

If you like pokemon fan club that much maybe its better to play 1 PFC and 2 ultra balls, otherwise you just could go for 3 ultra balls. You can play skyla for ultra ball, discard hand and get your pokemon, then use effect of octillery if he's up. That 1 card extra you draw CAN make a difference in the game. If you just play PFC you get your bench is full but get 2 cards less if you use octillery after that (considering you don't play anything after it). So it would speed up the deck if you played 3 ub > 2ub + 1 PFC.
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I know he plays the Shaymin and Octillery but what I was trying to say is Gardevoir isn't scared of just Pidgeot by itself since you have to 3HKO them. They just attack your other mons. With the mega, they are at lease forced to deal with it. I do want to make a number of changes to the deck. I am taking notes after each game to make sure. the thing with me was when I played Ultra Ball, I was using it to find basic Pokemon so I figured if I took out one Ultra Ball and tried one PFC, I could get two Pokemon and save resources. It has been very useful for me but I kind of want to run two of them to see it more often.

I could take out the FFB and put the float stone back in but I would much rather remove Olympia. I'm not really a fan of Rotom Pokedex since to me its one of those cards that if you could run it, you're better of running a better card. The second Hex Maniac has won me some very clutch game. I was able to Hex Maniac my opponent's Yanmega deck 5 turns in a row because of them. One may work well, and I'm sure it does for others but I really like it at two.

Energy Retrieval is one of those hit and miss cards. Sometimes you are just sitting on it but the fact that it can turn into two metal energy is nice. Sometimes your hand is nice but you lack the energy and might be forced to do something you don't want to. One play I did many times with it was retreat the Pokemon with the basic Energy and get it back with Energy Retrieval.

I want to know though, with your deck, how is it working for you? Were there ever any times where your deck didn't do anything or were there times you wish you could do something else.
 
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