sideboard?

[Minty88]

If you build a deck with sideboarding in mind, even with a 5 card sideboard you could easily tech in pokemon to destroy any matchup.

I will give a few examples.

So lets say your deck has a bad match-up against 6-corners. You then side-board in something like 3-4 Lost removers. The deck plays a ton of special NRG, and There is no way to counter the maxed out Lost Remover count. The deck has to hit its energy drops consistently, and if you have all the lost removers you need. You'lll swing the match heavily in your favor.

Someone already posted that you swing any lightning match up in your favor with adding four Terrakion. And if you have a bad matchup against lightning you can build you deck in such a way that you will already be able to meet the fighting NRG requirement. How do you counter side-board against Terrakion? 4 Tornadus? some DCE?

Pokemon is a VERY different game from magic and yugioh. Its pretty easy to find a hard counter to your opponents pokemon, so sideboarding doesn't really take much skill for pokemon. It just takes maxing out your count of some hard counter like Tornadus, Mewtwo, Absol, Terrakion, Cobalion, etc.

My last example is the big basic decks like Electrode+anything or 6-corners. These decks (once again) can just sideboard in a maxed-out counter to whatever the opponent is running (or take electrode out or put it back in).

Sideboarding in pokemon would be pretty mindless is most cases. Whereas, getting a 60 card deck to be consistent and also including what you need for bad match-ups (and evaluation of your meta, and popular decks to determine if the tech is worth they space) takes a significant amount of skill.

TL;DR:

Because of the way the Pokemon TCG works, sideboarding would be mindless. Building a deck 60 deck with techs that is still consistent takes considerably more skill.

 

[shiwei87tan]

If you build a deck with sideboarding in mind, even with a 5 card sideboard you could easily tech in pokemon to destroy any matchup.

I will give a few examples.

So lets say your deck has a bad match-up against 6-corners. You then side-board in something like 3-4 Lost removers. The deck plays a ton of special NRG, and There is no way to counter the maxed out Lost Remover count. The deck has to hit its energy drops consistently, and if you have all the lost removers you need. You'lll swing the match heavily in your favor.

Someone already posted that you swing any lightning match up in your favor with adding four Terrakion. And if you have a bad matchup against lightning you can build you deck in such a way that you will already be able to meet the fighting NRG requirement. How do you counter side-board against Terrakion? 4 Tornadus? some DCE?

Pokemon is a VERY different game from magic and yugioh. Its pretty easy to find a hard counter to your opponents pokemon, so sideboarding doesn't really take much skill for pokemon. It just takes maxing out your count of some hard counter like Tornadus, Mewtwo, Absol, Terrakion, Cobalion, etc.

My last example is the big basic decks like Electrode+anything or 6-corners. These decks (once again) can just sideboard in a maxed-out counter to whatever the opponent is running (or take electrode out or put it back in).

Sideboarding in pokemon would be pretty mindless is most cases. Whereas, getting a 60 card deck to be consistent and also including what you need for bad match-ups (and evaluation of your meta, and popular decks to determine if the tech is worth they space) takes a significant amount of skill.

TL;DR:

Because of the way the Pokemon TCG works, sideboarding would be mindless. Building a deck 60 deck with techs that is still consistent takes considerably more skill.

Building a 60 deck with techs that is still consistent takes considerably more skill, i agree. but with sideboard, we can have a consistent 60 card deck.. leaving only a 15 cards or lesser sideboard for tech will take much more skill than 60 deck with techs that is still consistent IMO. you said you tried sideboard against 6-corner, but have you tried to sideboard against other archetype too? and have you thought of how other archetype will sideboard against your deck and how are you going to counter that? there's infinite possibility with sideboard.. so having only tried once against a single archetype and not all other as well as other archetypes sideboard against yours does not prove and will not prove anything until someone are able to organize a few test tournament with relatively large group of skilled player.

 

[Minty88]

@shiwei87tan

I haven't tested it. I just know how destructive lost remover can be against Six Corners. I think you raise a good point, in that it should be tested. We could have a tournament through webcam and playTCG, and other stuff like that with best 2-of-3 rounds. And have perhaps a 10 card sideboard. If anyone wants to set something like that up I would be more than glad to participate.

That aside, I still stand by my point that side-board in pokemon would be too simplistic. You could do some fun things like changing chandelure from a trainer-lock to a non-trainer lock version. Or taking magnezone in and out of a typhlosion build. But I feel for the most part, that sideboarding would end up being alot more strait-foward than that. Just pick your worst matchup and fill your sideboard with the hard counter.

The complexity of the sideboard seems dependent so much on its card-size. But changing a deck by 15 cards is like building a whole new deck. The best example I can think of is having a "take out" Machamp as a side for your SP matchup... very straitforward.

Would you like to set up some kind of side-board tournament? It might be fun, and we would have results to actually talk about rather than all theory.

 

[shiwei87tan]

@shiwei87tan

I haven't tested it. I just know how destructive lost remover can be against Six Corners. I think you raise a good point, in that it should be tested. We could have a tournament through webcam and playTCG, and other stuff like that with best 2-of-3 rounds. And have perhaps a 10 card sideboard. If anyone wants to set something like that up I would be more than glad to participate.

That aside, I still stand by my point that side-board in pokemon would be too simplistic. You could do some fun things like changing chandelure from a trainer-lock to a non-trainer lock version. Or taking magnezone in and out of a typhlosion build. But I feel for the most part, that sideboarding would end up being alot more strait-foward than that. Just pick your worst matchup and fill your sideboard with the hard counter.

The complexity of the sideboard seems dependent so much on its card-size. But changing a deck by 15 cards is like building a whole new deck. The best example I can think of is having a "take out" Machamp as a side for your SP matchup... very straitforward.

Would you like to set up some kind of side-board tournament? It might be fun, and we would have results to actually talk about rather than all theory.

i would love to test it out too on playTCG, but due to my work it's quite hard for me to arrange the time and i'm not a really good player for modified format since the last time i play pokemon was during the neo discovery set.

i think these rules for a sideboard would be good:

1) Each player is allowed to bring 10 cards (in addition to his 60 cards main deck) to a tournament. These cards are your sideboard. You're not required to have a sideboard; but, if you do have one, it must be exactly 10 cards.
2) After the first and second game of a match, each player is allowed to swap cards in their deck for cards in their sideboard. This is a 1-for-1 swap, so both your deck and your sideboard must remain the same size during each game.
3) Your deck must still be legal after sideboarding. (for example, if you already have four Pikachu in your deck, you can't sideboard in two more).
4) Your sideboard must be legal at all times. (for example, if you already have four Mewtwo EX in your deck, your sideboard cannot contain any Mewtwo EX).
5) Your sideboard can only contain pokemon, trainer-item & supporter only. energy and stadium are not allowed in the sideboard unless they are swapped there in rule number 2.

 

[Minty88]

why no energy or stadiums? do other games have side-board restrictions like that? Stadiums can be very important (ruins of alph, pokemon center, etc) in come matchups, and Special energy could be important for some sideboarded pokemon. Rainbow or otherwise. Also, what if I'm playing Chandelure and I want to be able to play more or less Red or Purple Chandelure? Why does my sideboard limit me like that? I think the deck should, of course, stay legal. But being able to change up an evolution line for something like Emboar, Chandelure, Tynamo (40 hp vs. 30hp), Victini, and an older example with Machamp Prime and Take-Out Machamp and the MULTIPLE playable gengar from last format.

Limiting the Sideboard with the evolution mechanic to 4 copies of a card name between sideboard and deck would be too limiting for many decks.

 

[shiwei87tan]

why no energy or stadiums? do other games have side-board restrictions like that? Stadiums can be very important (ruins of alph, pokemon center, etc) in come matchups, and Special energy could be important for some sideboarded pokemon. Rainbow or otherwise. Also, what if I'm playing Chandelure and I want to be able to play more or less Red or Purple Chandelure? Why does my sideboard limit me like that? I think the deck should, of course, stay legal. But being able to change up an evolution line for something like Emboar, Chandelure, Tynamo (40 hp vs. 30hp), Victini, and an older example with Machamp Prime and Take-Out Machamp and the MULTIPLE playable gengar from last format.

Limiting the Sideboard with the evolution mechanic to 4 copies of a card name between sideboard and deck would be too limiting for many decks.

all other game only have the limiting the sideboard to 4 copies of a card name between sideboard and deck. i just thought if we at the minimum restrict some stuff like energy and stadium.. doing so it forces a player to make sure in the process of building their sideboard and deck, they won't neglect the sideboard thinking that since the sideboard can fit all the tech.. they can don't bother with ensuring that the deck will still be consistent after sideboarding.. a sideboard is part of a deck.. you play as if you are playing a 70 cards deck just that 10 of the cards are put aside during each game.