Scott Walker and Wisconsin

Boddy

Boddy

Was once Boddy903
Member
I'm going to be blunt. I don't agree with Scott Walker in any way, shape or form, and I have no idea how the general Wisconsin public voted for him, or why they even wanted to.

I'm sure that you have heard about what's going on Madison. Scott Walker's "budget" bill will ultimately eliminate all forms of collective bargaining rights, in order to prevent layoffs. His actions are nothing but a ruse. Collective bargaining is a way for the Unions to maintain a standard of happiness in the office. If they were not given these rights, schools can and will fire most teachers who are old and experienced, and fire those who are new and unexperienced. He also plans major cuts to education, which has been taking enough fire already. How much longer does he think education can take before it becomes empty?

Not only that, but Walker's next proposed budget for the next few fiscal years is also outrageous. Not only is he working to get rid of ALL recycling programs in the state, he is also planning to change the equal rights law. Now, discrimination to all peoples is illegal except that of sexual orientation. Know what that means? It would be legal to discriminate against openly gay and lesbian peoples in public, and in the workplace.

Please discuss your opinion about this issue, here in the thread, and I will gladly debate along with you.
 
I think Scott Walker doesn't know what he is talking about, and he should be fired, if he can be.
 
You know what the funny part is? The reason the need to do this budget plan, is because he gave so many tax breaks to the rich!! So for his mistake, he is putting the "solution" onto the collective bargaining rights. I am very proud of what the wisconsinites are doing because in the past, they have always have been in the front of job reform. So now they are continuing this legacy.

I am also very glad that the democratic senators left the state to not return.
 
Wait a minute, now. Wisconsin is poor. They've run out of money because all the politicians have done in the past is given huge benefits to the public, basically in exchange for votes. Finally, someone's in office who will try to keep the debt from spiraling completely out of control. We need people like this at a national level.
You see what I'm saying, though? People don't like him because he's taking away benefits. But these are benefits the state of Wisconsin simply cannot afford.
 
^ Its only poor because of the tax breaks he gave... One cant hide what he did. And, if they were able to keep up with the benefits before, why get rid of it now?
 
Cough POLITICAL DISCUSSION THREAD made by me COUGH.

Its not just Scott Walker, it seems to me like there are plenty of other people in position in our country who have absolutely no right to be there.
 
Collective bargaining is a way for the Unions to maintain a standard of happiness in the office.
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Explain to me how Collective Bargaining does ANYTHING in the realm of happiness.

The Democrats are FOOLS for leaving Wisconsin. Look, I'm not condoning what Scott Walker is doing, I know nothing about him or his state. However, you don't flee a state to avoid a vote. That is literally running away from Democracy and abusing a constitutional loop-hole. To put it simply, it's wrong, and the Democrats should be punished for it.

As for Wisconsin, they voted Walker in, they get what they deserve. Whether or not the Democrats are completely right on this one being against Walker (which they could or could not be), they get what they deserve. They vote Walker in, they suffer the consequences, plain and simple. A PERFECT example of this would be the Republicans voting against the Healthcare Overhaul even though they knew they had no chance. I'm sure they could have fled the country and avoided the vote, but do you know how SLANDERED they would have been for doing so? Yes, MSNBC would have absolutely murdered them over it. They did the right thing opposing yet not running away from the bill, and they should be commended.

All in all, Unions are overstaying their welcome in America. Not only do Collective Bargaining rights RUIN the workplace, but Union leaders are laughing at you right now, Boddy. You're (assuming you work for a Union, which I don't know) are dumping hundreds of dollars into their huge bank accounts funding their lives. They're taking advantage of me and hundreds and thousands of other workers.

Anyway, in this situation the Democrats are blatantly running away from Democracy, which is wrong. Scott Walker voters will get what they deserve.
 
Evolution said:
^ Its only poor because of the tax breaks he gave... One cant hide what he did. And, if they were able to keep up with the benefits before, why get rid of it now?
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No... it's poor because the liberals in office spent all the money on benefits they kept promising.
And they weren't able to keep up with benefits before. That would be why they're so far in debt.
 
^Disagree. We're poor because of things like this bill. Collective bargaining is a huge thing for teachers and other public workers. I know of school districts that are literally pink-slipping (aka firing) every single one of their teachers. They can hire the teachers back yes, but with massive paycuts. Collective bargaining doesn't give the teachers any choice but to take a huge paycut. Teachers who spend time getting their masters degrees or PH. D's are literally getting re-hired for $20,000 dollar paycuts ore more. How exactly is that supposed to help make us un-poor? It really doesn't.

Just my 2 cents.
 
BlueEyedSteelix: Yes, you're right in saying that those who voted for him are paying the consequences, but you also have to realize that nothing that he's been advocating in the bill was ever said by him before November. This is all out of the blue, never was anything about this was said. The plain and simple truth is that Walker is a liar.

No, I am not a Union worker, though I am flattered you think of me as an adult. However, it affects me in more ways than I hoped. Now, districts don't have to bargain with Unions, meaning that they can change the attributes of the classroom. There may be over 40 kids in one high school classroom, and don't even get me started on the fact that almost all teachers are being replaced. Do you know how it feels to go through every day, with all of your teachers crying at their desks? It's mortifying. When I grow up, I want to be a teacher, but now that Walker has gone and destabilized the entire system, it almost seems worthless.

Although I don't praise the Democrats for leaving, I thought it was their only way. Walker knows they won't return unless he makes negotiations. Our Democrats won't let Walker leaving the state in shambles. Also, don't even try to argue that he's trying to balance the budget, because even he's admitted on various talk shows that the main reason this is being done to abolish Unions. If he really cared about saving the state from financial crises, he wouldn't have given generous tax breaks to companies.
 
Public workers should not have the right to "bargain" with taxpayer money. Teachers who go on strike should be fired for refusing to perform their duty. Look, if you don't want a job, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE IT. If you do take a public sector job, you shouldn't be able to haggle for more of other people's money.

Boddy903, a teacher who cries at their desk over their rights to unionize is clearly more devoted to their pay than their job as an educator. To clarify, if they are crying in their official capacity as teacher, they are neglecting their responsibility to educate children as per their job description.

The original concept of unionization was indeed a good thing. It should be perfectly alright for private sector employees to band together and threaten to quit in unison. However, unions should not be able to lobby for laws restricting the rights of employers. The threats of quitting should be the deterrent; no laws should amplify that. By granting unions legal power and having laws that hurt employers, we have completely corrupted the concept of unions. If an employer is dissatisfied with his employees' unionization, there should be no law in place preventing him from firing them all without delay, especially within the private sector; that's a tradeoff the employer decides whether or not to make. If I am an owner of a private business, I should have complete freedom to keep or let go of my workers as I please; after all, I'm paying them.

The public sector is a different story entirely. Because public employees are employed at the taxpayers' expense, they should have far less freedom to unionize. If a paralegal at a private firm refuses to go to work, the firm suffers. If public schoolteachers refuse to go to work, the public suffers, and children are denied instruction, even though their parents have paid for it in their taxes. If police officers refuse to go to work, killers get off the hook and violence will run rampant. The government completely fails at playing the frugal boss, because we all know how hard it is to be frugal when you have access to other people's money.

The reason public services are offered is because many people consider them essential. If that is the case, any public workers who strike are selfishly depriving the community of its due, for which it has already paid in tax money; these public workers should be fired immediately. When Ronald Reagan fired the air traffickers who had gone on strike, and sent each one home, he set the golden standard. Depriving the public of essential services CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be tolerated.

Union dues are mandatory in many states, and they are a complete train wreck. Teachers who want nothing to do with unions still have to pay dues by law. Teachers' unions are the single most destructive force to American education out there. They prevent the dismissal of incompetent teachers, effectively control their own pay (which is NEVER a good thing), provide obscene pensions at your expense, and spend thousands of dollars on political advertisements and lobbyist armies. In doing so, they're not trying to help the kids, but themselves. Under the current system (with union-approved legislation), firing a teacher is INCREDIBLY difficult - do you think it is a good thing that states can't fire incompetent teachers?

Furthermore, Teacher's Unions abuse their secret weapon, which is their status as teachers. Running negative attack ads against anyone who dares to oppose their wall of raw political power, they can paint anyone as evil by simply mentioning "the kids". Pensions for teachers? That's NOT about the kids.

Private business always outclasses public services; this is simply another example of public sector failure. The Teacher's Unions hold more power than many state legislators, so much that they're nearly untouchable. Anything run by the government will fail relatively quickly; private businesses don't have this problem.
 
Boddy903 said:
I'm going to be blunt. I don't agree with Scott Walker in any way, shape or form, and I have no idea how the general Wisconsin public voted for him, or why they even wanted to.

The modern bourgeois society that has sprouted from the ruins of feudal society has not done away with class antagonisms. It has but established new classes, new conditions of oppression, new forms of struggle in place of the old ones.

Our epoch, the epoch of the bourgeoisie, possesses, however, this distinct feature: it has simplified class antagonisms. Society as a whole is more and more splitting up into two great hostile camps, into two great classes directly facing each other — Bourgeoisie and Proletariat.

I'm sure that you have heard about what's going on Madison. Scott Walker's "budget" bill will ultimately eliminate all forms of collective bargaining rights, in order to prevent layoffs. His actions are nothing but a ruse. Collective bargaining is a way for the Unions to maintain a standard of happiness in the office. If they were not given these rights, schools can and will fire most teachers who are old and experienced, and fire those who are new and unexperienced. He also plans major cuts to education, which has been taking enough fire already. How much longer does he think education can take before it becomes empty?

Altogether collisions between the classes of the old society further, in many ways, the course of development of the proletariat. The bourgeoisie finds itself involved in a constant battle. At first with the aristocracy; later on, with those portions of the bourgeoisie itself, whose interests have become antagonistic to the progress of industry; at all time with the bourgeoisie of foreign countries. In all these battles, it sees itself compelled to appeal to the proletariat, to ask for help, and thus, to drag it into the political arena. The bourgeoisie itself, therefore, supplies the proletariat with its own elements of political and general education, in other words, it furnishes the proletariat with weapons for fighting the bourgeoisie.

Further, as we have already seen, entire sections of the ruling class are, by the advance of industry, precipitated into the proletariat, or are at least threatened in their conditions of existence. These also supply the proletariat with fresh elements of enlightenment and progress.

Not only that, but Walker's next proposed budget for the next few fiscal years is also outrageous. Not only is he working to get rid of ALL recycling programs in the state, he is also planning to change the equal rights law. Now, discrimination to all peoples is illegal except that of sexual orientation. Know what that means? It would be legal to discriminate against openly gay and lesbian peoples in public, and in the workplace.

The less the skill and exertion of strength implied in manual labour, in other words, the more modern industry becomes developed, the more is the labour of men superseded by that of women. Differences of age and sex have no longer any distinctive social validity for the working class. All are instruments of labour, more or less expensive to use, according to their age and sex.

Please discuss your opinion about this issue, here in the thread, and I will gladly debate along with you.

Though not in substance, yet in form, the struggle of the proletariat with the bourgeoisie is at first a national struggle. The proletariat of each country must, of course, first of all settle matters with its own bourgeoisie.
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They need to throw Scott Walker in jail after the unjustice he's done to the state of Wisconsin, while he's there he can say hi to Bernie Madoff and the corrupted fat cats of Wall Street that screwed up our economy 3 years ago.
 
I find his advertisements on youtube really annoying. But anyway, to be honest, I really don't care what's going in Wisconsin. I don't know, I guess I'm a bad person for thinking like, but it's really just some more bs they we can throw in the pot called politics.
 
So you think government workers should be paid BY TAXPAYERS when they refuse to work? Private sector employees have too many laws in their favor; unions should be allowed to gather workers who threaten to quit in unsion, but we DON'T need laws helping Unions place unreasonable restrictions on employers.

SO MANY PEOPLE have no idea how unions work. The idea of a union having people band together to put pressure on their employers? That's okay. Going on strike against a private sector employer? Sure. Going on strike when your employer is every taxpayer in your state? No. Lobbying for LAWS helping unions? Ridiculous! Employers should have every legal right to fire their employees in the blink of an eye. You shouldn't need "justification" to stop paying someone your money.

Teachers shouldn't have ridiculous pensions, but they do. So many teachers are hired by public school systems, but many are as good as disposable, which is fine by me! The employer should be able to dispose of employees with whom they take issue. Now, if these teachers were actually well-qualified, firing them would hurt the school because they'd be difficult to replace. The fact is, however, that many of these teachers have incredibly few credentials, so replacing them is easy. Teachers should live in fear of being fired; it will increase the effort they put into their lessons. So many of them are disposable and easily replaced and should be treated as such.

Scott Walker, thank you for standing up to the raw power exercised by brutal public unions, which absolutely crushes state budgets. Public sector unions are a huge money pit and the more that leave, the better.
 
^_^
Lol this is too good to be true.

Scot Walker: Rich people hire others, so lemme cut taxes for them.
Poor People: But they are just going to buy yachts with the money!
Scott Walker: No, they will hire you.
Poor People: >_>

Scot Walker: Hmm, I have no money left because I gave it to the rich people.
Scott Walker: Idea! Let's cut stuff no one cares about! Stuff like education, I mean who needs that stuff, it's not like people learn anything in school.
Teachers: (...) Say what? I'm getting fired so the government can pay rich people?
Teachers: Without education, kids will have low paying jobs.
Scott Walker: Sigh, you teachers are so dim. No one cares about education, I'm lowering the debt!
Teachers: >_>

Scott Walker: Ahh, I feel good. I created jobs by giving tax cuts to the rich, and fired those teacher people, who probably don't do any work.
Republicans: Genius! Let's do it everywhere!

^_^
Lol this is too good to be true.

Scot Walker: Rich people hire others, so lemme cut taxes for them.
Poor People: But they are just going to buy yachts with the money!
Scott Walker: No, they will hire you.
Poor People: >_>

Scot Walker: Hmm, I have no money left because I gave it to the rich people.
Scott Walker: Idea! Let's cut stuff no one cares about! Stuff like education, I mean who needs that stuff, it's not like people learn anything in school.
Teachers: (...) Say what? I'm getting fired so the government can pay rich people?
Teachers: Without education, kids will have low paying jobs.
Scott Walker: Sigh, you teachers are so dim. No one cares about education, I'm lowering the debt!
Teachers: >_>

Scott Walker: Ahh, I feel good. I created jobs by giving tax cuts to the rich, and fired those teacher people, who probably don't do any work.
Republicans: Genius! Let's do it everywhere!
 
The political ignorance here is absurd. People simply repeat the same preachy tale about taxing the rich, but don't UNDERSTAND how things work.

Hyperbeem said:
Scot Walker: Rich people hire others, so lemme cut taxes for them.
Poor People: But they are just going to buy yachts with the money!
Scott Walker: No, they will hire you.
Poor People: >_>
Click to expand...

I agree, the rich should pay more in taxes. But you have to realize that in Wisconsin, the rich pay a higher percentage. Let's say you make (hypothetically) $10,000 annually and pay $500 in income tax. If I make $100,000 a year, I should then pay $5000. That's not how it works. It's easy to say 'the rich can afford it' and ignore all else, but ultimately this simply comes down to jealousy and class resentment, as well as failure to understand how much money is involved. Keep in mind, by the way, that I am not rich.

WI Income Tax said:
If your income range is between $0 and $9,700, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4.6%.
If your income range is between $9,701 and $19,400, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6.15%.
If your income range is between $19,401 and $145,460, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6.5%.
If your income range is $145,461 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6.75%.
Click to expand...

Hyperbeem said:
Scot Walker: Hmm, I have no money left because I gave it to the rich people.
Scott Walker: Idea! Let's cut stuff no one cares about! Stuff like education, I mean who needs that stuff, it's not like people learn anything in school.
Teachers: (...) Say what? I'm getting fired so the government can pay rich people?
Teachers: Without education, kids will have low paying jobs.
Scott Walker: Sigh, you teachers are so dim. No one cares about education, I'm lowering the debt!
Teachers: >_>
Click to expand...
Scott Walker doesn't give any money to the rich. Lowering taxes for everyone, not just the rich, is simply letting them keep what is rightfully theirs!
You also have no idea what you're talking about here. I promise you, there will be teachers in Wisconsin. He's not going to abolish schools. What he WILL do is ensure teachers cannot demand a higher salary from public money. But there WILL be equally qualified people coming to take the spots of the ones that are fired; they'll just have fewer rights they don't deserve. Most American schoolteachers are not the brightest kids on the block; they're easy to dispose of and easy to replace. There will always be people willing to teach without ridiculous laws in place to help unions steal from taxpayers, because teaching is an easy job with few prerequisites. You get summer vacation and (unfortunately) pensions for life once you retire. It's really a very easy job to teach grade school; you just have to read out of a textbook.
And it's very easy for you to mock raising the budget, because it's just a word for you. You don't understand just how much it is. That's why it's easy for clever politicians to ignore money problems; to people with no understanding, they're just numbers with no significance.

Hyperbeem said:
Scott Walker: Ahh, I feel good. I created jobs by giving tax cuts to the rich, and fired those teacher people, who probably don't do any work.
Republicans: Genius! Let's do it everywhere!
Click to expand...
I must stress, again, we will have teachers, who are probably just as qualified as the people we put into our schools right now. Teachers are quite expendable and very easy to find, as teaching grade school requires very few qualifications while being quite easy. And if we can get a better deal by firing a teacher and replacing them with an equally qualified, but lower-paid teacher, we should whenever possible!
 
Lol dude, chill out, it was an exaggeration... I know how tax percentage works, it's just that the rich don't need those tax breaks at all. Teaching grade school is actually not an easy job and requires an extremely high college qualification relative to the pay. You aren't going to get the same quality for lower pay, it just doesn't work that way. You know who else is quite expendable...
 
Hey look... a bunch of people talking about something that they have no clue about. lol

The fact that teachers are as of now just about untouchable is stupid. Don't give me crud about what they do, or how hard it is. Guess what? EVERYONE else has to work hard, and most of them don't get even half of what a teacher gets in benefits. Why should teachers be so special?
 
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