Colorless M Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX

[Camoclone]

This thread is used for all competitive discussion on Rayquaza EX/Shaymin EX, or any similar Rayquaza EX variants. This includes strategies, playstyles, and techs.

You may post decklists here, but only as a means to add to the discussion. If you're looking for advice on your list, post in the Deck Garage.

Articles for Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX:

Ben Sauk's "Emerald Breaking the Format"

Mees Brenninkmeijer's "Dominating Forces of Roaring Skies"

Rayquaza EX / Shaymin EX Skeleton List:

Pokémon: 14

• 3 M Rayquaza EX ROS 76
• 4 Rayquaza EX ROS 75
• 4 Shaymin EX ROS
• 3 Exeggcute PLF

Trainers: 27

• 4 Professor Sycamore
• 2 Lysandre
• 4 VS Seeker

• 4 Ultra Ball
• 3 Sky Field
• 3 Rayquaza Spirit Link
• 3 Mega Turbo
• 2 Switch
• 1 Computer Search

Energy: 9

• 4 Double Colorless
• 5 Grass

Open Spots: 11

Strategy:
Try to start Emerald Breaking (M Rayquaza EX's attack) as soon as possible. Shaymin EX is used to draw a ton of cards and is essential to the strategy. With Mega Turbo you can accelerate energy onto M Rayquaza EX. With a DCE and one Mega Turbo you will be able to Emerald Break. The Spirit Link and Ancient Trait allow you to power up M Rayquaza EX and attack on turn 1. Exeggcute's ability is used after your Sky Field is discard and you are forced to discard Pokemon until you only have 5 on the bench. You can just Propagate (Exeggcute's ability) all of your Exeggcute's back from the discard.

Good Additions:

• Virizion EX
• Seismitoad EX
• Altaria ROS
• Ninetales PRC
  
• Trainer's Mail
• Acro Bike
• Battle Compressor
• N
• Colress

 

[DarkMatterGaming]

Thinking about it, couldn't you theoretically run FuF Jynx? While it's not the most helpful Pokemon in the long run, and is complete Lysandre bait - just like Eggs, Ninetales, Altaria, need I go on? - the 10 HP heal per turn could be potentially helpful.

My only question as of right now: does that ability stack per Jynx, or is it literally only 10 HP? It doesn't say that you can't activate abilities of the same name so...

 

[Camoclone]

Thinking about it, couldn't you theoretically run FuF Jynx? While it's not the most helpful Pokemon in the long run, and is complete Lysandre bait - just like Eggs, Ninetales, Altaria, need I go on? - the 10 HP heal per turn could be potentially helpful.

My only question as of right now: does that ability stack per Jynx, or is it literally only 10 HP? It doesn't say that you can't activate abilities of the same name so...

Jynx does in fact stack so you can heal 10 damage multiple times (10 per Jynx). I just don't see the benefit of Jynx over other stuff. If you are using it purely for bench filler than Eggs are better. The math with Jynx isn't even that good either. The only matchup Jynx would actually be useful in is probably against Donphan.

 

[Elbow]

If you want to heal 40 damage you might as well use Super potion as you can recycle the energy back with Mega Turbo anyways. I personally don't think any healing cards are useful in the deck though.

With the exeggcute, grass, and DCE, you might as well put 1 Exeggcutor in the 'Good Additions' section. It sounds silly, but I bet there are many situations where you'd want to stall for a turn or 2 to set up a Rayquaza.

Also, robo subs I heard were 'Good Additions' for the deck.

 

[Camoclone]

Also, robo subs I heard were 'Good Additions' for the deck.

What is the advantage over Eggs? If they kill an Egg then you can just force a 7 prize game. If they kill two Eggs then that means that you should have a Rayquaza rolling them.

 

[Elbow]

What is the advantage over Eggs? If they kill an Egg then you can just force a 7 prize game. If they kill two Eggs then that means that you should have a Rayquaza rolling them.

The advantage is that your opponent isn't taking an easy prize. Late game, its better to have a bench with only Robo Subs and not many exeggcute. And any sniping decks (ie. Landorus, Crobat decks, Kyurem) will have a field day with Lysandre. I do avocate Eggs for the deck, but I've heard about people having success testing it with robo subs, which is why I'd add it to 'Good Additions.'

 

[Camoclone]

The advantage is that your opponent isn't taking an easy prize. Late game, its better to have a bench with only Robo Subs and not many exeggcute. And any sniping decks (ie. Landorus, Crobat decks, Kyurem) will have a field day with Lysandre. I do avocate Eggs for the deck, but I've heard about people having success testing it with robo subs, which is why I'd add it to 'Good Additions.'

What I'm saying is letting your opponent take 1 prize isn't a big deal for this deck.

 

[Elbow]

What I'm saying is letting your opponent take 1 prize isn't a big deal for this deck.

If your opponent gets out consistent damage on your eggs then its worth considering. If they knock out 3 eggs with Landorus on the bench, then all they need is to KO a Shaymin EX and another egg and they win. If you run robo sub you don't run the same risk with the eggs. They also are not restricted by silent lab...and while you do run 4 Skyfield, it is possible to not draw it and miss an OHKO.
I think that letting up 2 easy prizes is detrimental to this deck. That was the downside to Jirachi EX when he was played, and now the ball is on eggs. With 2 egg KOes, that means you only have to KO 2 Rayquaza EX, or 1 Rayquaza and 1 Shaymin EX. I do think that they are crucial to the plan, but all I'm saying is to add it to the 'Good Additions' section and not the actual deck skeleton section.

 

[DarkMatterGaming]

If you're worried about bench sniping, teching a Plasma Freeze Mr. Mime would fix that up. That by itself is Lysandre bait also, but it negates attacks/abilities on Bench.

Also, on Jynx - my reasoning is that you have a 220 HP Pokemon with access to more Bench slots; making that harder to kill, powering up the attack and not discarding energy seems pretty effective in my book. It also can't be blocked by Toad EX's item lock, which Super Potion doesn't have the benefit of.

 

[cardgjammer]

Banette ROS is a big problem for this deck...

Why isn't Wally / Evosoda on the good additions list?

Either thing could help bypass the limitations set by Banette for your turn against you...

 

[Elbow]

If you're worried about bench sniping, teching a Plasma Freeze Mr. Mime would fix that up. That by itself is Lysandre bait also, but it negates attacks/abilities on Bench.

Also, on Jynx - my reasoning is that you have a 220 HP Pokemon with access to more Bench slots; making that harder to kill, powering up the attack and not discarding energy seems pretty effective in my book. It also can't be blocked by Toad EX's item lock, which Super Potion doesn't have the benefit of.

10 damage does not matter in a format where everything 2HKOs you no matter what. Even 3 of them are useless against most decks. IE: Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Manectric, and Yveltal. Yes, it helps against toad, but I don't think its worth it.

 

[yuri sweets]

I was thinking would Winona be a good addition to this deck because most of the monster core is colorless. This could provide a way to get a vast amount of pokemon on the board with 1 card or is this deck supposed to be conservative with placing rayquazas and shaymins?

 

[Vom]

I can't believe Winona isn't in the skeleton nor in the Good Additions sections, and what's more, no one says anything about it.
Altaria imo should be at least a 1-1-of staple, otherwise MManetric eats you alive, since they can also Mega Turbo their Manetrics, a fact some people seem to forget for some reason. So unless you run Terrakion LTR, MMan is a problem.

On that topic, what are your thoughts on pairing this with Terrakion and putting in some Energy Switches? Could allow for surprise KOs and a Manetric counter in case one piece of the Altaria line is Prized/was KOed.

EDIT: Wow, even on this new site I get ninja'd xD *gives yuri sweets a medal*

Also, if you do include the Terrakion, you could also fit Korrina and be more consistent.

 

[yuri sweets]

I was looking at Terrakion and unless I read the cards wrong Terrakion seems to be a semi slow check to mManetric. Terrakion seems to be a decent revenge killer but for this you need to add fighting energys which would set off the consistency some also I am pretty sure you will also need to add in muscle band to make it able to one shot as well. so although it does seem to be a semi good check, the card rayquaza if set up to full potential should be able to ohko the manetric with its own move since this is the case it will sorta defeat the whole purpose of terrakion being in deck unless its being used as a hesitant for the other player to switch the manetric in.

 

[Vom]

The deck being colorless, fitting at least some Fighting Energies shouldn't be an issue at all, considering you have Shaymin and Mega Turbo (which becomes useless if you don't run any basic Energy). You can't win games if all you have is 4 DCE.
For some reason I forgot it needed a Band to revenge OHKO Dx
While it should indeed be able to, it doesn't mean it should, unless the opponent has no benched Manetric (be it the base or the mega) because otherwise they OHKO you back and guess what? they take 2 Prizes. Without Terrakion/Altaria, you lose the Prize trade, especially if they have two of the mega in play and run Max Potion. So imo Terrakion would be a really good addition as a back up, a 2-of.

Again, not to mention the Korrina shenanigans.

 

[Camoclone]

10 damage does not matter in a format where everything 2HKOs you no matter what. Even 3 of them are useless against most decks. IE: Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Manectric, and Yveltal. Yes, it helps against toad, but I don't think its worth it.

It helps against Toad and Donphan although you should already beat Donphan.

I can't believe Winona isn't in the skeleton nor in the Good Additions sections, and what's more, no one says anything about it.

Winona is not actually as useful as it may seem. You can likely get 3 Pokemon by playing any other supporter as well (This becomes even easier if you play Eggs). At almost every stage in the game you would rather play another supporter. It just doesn't seem that useful to me.

Against Mega Tric you just attempt to out-speed it since you can Mega Evolve T1. They OHKO but so you OHKO them so it is a fairly even prize trade. I don't think a direct counter is worth it.

 

[Vom]

The thing about it is that it kills your dragons faster than you can make them. Sure, you could set them up in one turn, but you'll run out of Pokémon to bench and will miss the OHKO, while they can OHKO you more consistently than you can OHKO them. You can't try to out-speed MMan and expect to win the Prize trade without any non-EX attacker. If this situation continues, they'll eventually take 6 Prizes before you do. Unless...you were to have a Terrakion or an Altaria line.

About Winona, I guess you're right... but perhaps not bad as a 1-of.

 

[professor layton]

I'm not the greatest pokemon player to exist, but Shaymin will always be risky to place in this metagame. In this metagame, if you aren't 180(170 HP included), you have a 100% chance of getting KO'd easily.

High-risk, high reward. I suppose that sometimes we'll need to place risks in a deck.

 

[Camoclone]

The thing about it is that it kills your dragons faster than you can make them. Sure, you could set them up in one turn, but you'll run out of Pokémon to bench and will miss the OHKO, while they can OHKO you more consistently than you can OHKO them. You can't try to out-speed MMan and expect to win the Prize trade without any non-EX attacker. If this situation continues, they'll eventually take 6 Prizes before you do. Unless...you were to have a Terrakion or an Altaria line.

But M-Rayquaza should get the first attack off. With Eggs you will rarely whiff enough benched Pokemon to OHKO. This is especially true because M-Manectric EX and Manectric EX have relatively less HP.

M-Rayquaza goes first -> Manectric is unable to get a first turn attack off -> M-Rayquaza is able to KO something Turn 2
Manectric goes first -> M-Rayquaza is able to get a first turn attack off and hopefully KO's something -> Manectric retaliates with a KO

The matchup isn't as bad as it might seem. The real reason why Manectric can fall behind is because it can't evolve on the first turn it is played down. In my opinion I would rather devote the space towards a worse matchup. Manectric is not the decks worst matchup.

 

[Vom]

The eggs don't matter if it's the Rayquazas they're killing. With each KOed Ray, you lose firepower. With 2 of them KOed, you no longer OHKO.
A smart MMan player will Lysandre your benched non-eggs mons (possibly Shaymin) and KO them with whatever they paired MMan with. That way, not only they take prizes, but they also make you lose firepower in the process.
Don't forget Giant Cape exists

What would you fill the space with? For what match-ups? I can't really think of anything worse than that. Against Yveltal, you can OHKO with 3 Energy so they can't Evil Ball for that much. Against Fairies and Seismitoad, well there isn't really a lot to do. Against Virgen, the match-up is actually pretty good as far as my experience goes. Against metal, you just out-speed badly. Against Groudon, they need 2 Strong Energy to OHKO, but by the time that happens you should be able to have 2-3 ready M Rays.