Discussion Post Rotation Musings
- Thread starter AshGottem
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Noivern will be pretty bad without DDE so no worries
I don't see it. Noivern will be good in the pre rotation WCS meta with DDE but too slow without it especially for the lock style of game it's designed to play. Even if DDE gets reprinted the prominence of items in the meta is declining due to Garbodor, and without VS seekers people will be running thicker lines of consistency supporters. It'll be a good card but it's not quite the second coming of Toad that people fear. Another thing that Toad has over it is you can SSU your toad and attack again the same turn with the same toad.
I think the big deck to look out for will be Koko/Lele/Necrozma/Weavile. Has a lot of sources of efficient spread damage, once you've messed up a board you bring Lele in and move damage around to wipe the threats off of it. Even nastier in expanded with dimension valley reducing Necrozma's GX attack to CC and Lele's to P.
You'll want to include pokepuffs or target whistles in expanded to force them to bench things since players will try to keep their bench thin against this deck, and it also messes up Lele plays.
I think people are over-estimating how much losing DDE will hurt Noivern. To be honest, I don't think it will hurt him that much. 9 times out of ten, you want to use his first attack with is Dark>Colorless, so its a two turn set-up. Now losing Double Dragon will hurt the One-Energy-Item-Lock, but I don't think its THAT bad. I put it around Tier 2. It definitely isn't the second coming of Toad-Lock. That being said however, you could pair it with Darkrai EX. It is basically the new age Darkrai/Dragons deck. And the item lock may disrupt your opponent enough to let you get somewhat set-up. But we will have to wait and see.
Gardevoir GX has the best chance of being/staying Tier 1 because of the way it does damage (we still keep Geomancy Xerneas). With most attackers being 2-3 energy attackers, 2-3 Fairy Energy on Gardevoir GX with a Choice Band puts a lot in OHKO range. THe success of that card depends on Metagross GX however.
That i agree with, it's not Toad-Lock, or anywhere near it. One thing about Noivern is that you may never get his second attack/GX attack off because of the energy difference.
If I was gonna break it down in depth here's what you're looking at:
Double Dragon Energy allows you to play Darkrai/Noivern. Probably an 8/4 Energy split. You set up Noivern and attach a DDE and just go ham with item lock. After a few turns, you have enough energy to go ham with Darkrai EX. You can use Alter of the Moone for retreat costs. Overall, I think the deck would me pretty good. But Post rotation, we lose DDE, so now you have to change 8/4 to 10-12 Dark. EXP Share stays at four, attaching to Noivern mostly. You are better off going first, deck puts you behind a lot going second. Overall, I think Noivern/Darkrai COULD do well, but it's going to be sketchy post rotation.
Now you could do Noivern/Umbreon, but we lose the weakness trio.
Then there's the Drampa GX version of Noivern GX. 4 Dark 4 DCE 4 Rainbow? Allows you to get his second/GX attacks off, but you lack early damage.
Noivern/Zoroark may get clunky if you want to use the BREAK.
Noivern/Garb? Don't ask me how this one works, I just have 6 Dark/6 Psychic in my head. Item lock early then clean up with Garb? I'm spit balling at this point.
Why Weavile?