Legacy Format?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Trading Card Game' started by Expert_Occultist, Mar 30, 2016.

  1. Expert_Occultist Magic card player
    Expert_Occultist

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    So Pokemon TCG online just had a big update and part of the update is a new format called Legacy. The format is apparently Heartgold/Soulsilver to BW. I've never heard of sure a thing (Magic the Gathering aside ;)). Was this something they were planning to for a while now? What do you think of this format? What is the meta going to be like?
     


  2. Hassio Aspiring Trainer
    Hassio

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    I'm actually getting HGSS cards, Legacy will increase Prime and Legends Prizes (and also Trainer prizes). So, no XY cards=No Shaymin and VS Seeker. 4 Skyla decks will return, no battle compressor is a important thing too (No night March and no Metal).
    Important HGSS added cards (Junk Arm, Prof Oak, Engineer, Pokemon Collector, some Prime like Scizor, Gengar or Mew, Baby Pokemon as tech like Cleffa, Legends, etc)
     
  3. PMJ :[
    PMJ

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    They did this to stop people from grinding out the ladder with Shiftry NXD and getting free wins. I don't think it was really necessary, as it was easy enough to tech in a couple of Baltoy/Celebi and shut Shiftry down, but I guess enough people complained, and this is the end result.

    They recently had a Typhlosion Prime bundle that I skipped out on, but maybe next time they have some Legacy stuff available I'll pick it up.
     
  4. Gunther Spindler Aspiring Trainer
    Gunther Spindler

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    Actually 4 Skyla would be only for Virizion/Genesect deck or a deck that really wants its Ace Specs or Rare Candy as Black Kyurem EX/Blastoise.
    Regular deck probably will play 4 Prof Oak New Theory, 3-4 Juniper, 2-4 N, 0-2 Colress, 0-4 Randon Receiver.
     
  5. Expert_Occultist Magic card player
    Expert_Occultist

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    I think it's interesting in that, while some of the trainers are useful, a lot of the HGSS pokemon don't seem usable at all. Even the Primes have stats that just seem outclassed by BW standards especially by the EXs. This means that, to me, the old cards need some sort of ability to be usable at all like Scizor or Celebi (Celebi with Genesect EX droooool...) or offer something unique (I think the legends will go far).
     
  6. PMJ :[
    PMJ

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    They won't. Legacy exists not because it's fun or exciting. It exists to stop Shiftry and that's literally it.

    This format will also become very stale very quickly because once the top decks are established, nothing will ever change since no new cards are added.
     
  7. Expert_Occultist Magic card player
    Expert_Occultist

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    They couldn't just ban Shiftry?
     
  8. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

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    The whole thing is that the PTCGO is "weird" because its Unlimited Format was just HS-On (meaning through the latest release). I don't think they are to ban any cards that are not banned entirely. I was actually a bit annoyed Lysandre's Trump Card was banned for Unlimited because frankly, it was the place to go for when you wanted abusive decks. ;)

    So I don't think the Legacy Format means much of anything. As has been said, it solved a problem with assets they already had available and may as well attempt to capitalize upon (the HS-era sets).
     
  9. Hassio Aspiring Trainer
    Hassio

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    Legacy is now a available and aparently Virgen is the king of the meta (There isn't a surprise). Plasma TDK is very powerful too, and a "budget" option.
     
  10. signofzeta Aspiring Trainer
    signofzeta

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    When I saw that there was going to be a Legacy format, I got fooled into thinking they were going to slowly re-release the older cards, from Base Set all the way to Platinum Arceus, and making a format where it is like Unlimited, but with a banlist.
     
  11. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

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    That might be kind of nice, and something like that was discussed but the reality is that the team behind the PTCGO is struggling just to keep up with the present day stuff. I don't blame them either; the TCG has become very gimmick driven. This matters because gimmicks that mean little to players in real life can mean a lot to a "virtual desktop". Take Sky Field and the Stadiums with split effects probably required quite a bit. Then there are all the new-ish effects using established options, be they attack effects, Ancient Traits or Abilities.

    I wouldn't mind a version of the game that is only semi-automated. That is where there are commands for various generic actions and you just have to do the work yourself of telling the computer to draw, shuffle, place counters, etc.
     
  12. signofzeta Aspiring Trainer
    signofzeta

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    Magic Online started with Invasion, and they slowly released cards from Alpha all the way to Prophecy, so it can be done. That is why these older sets are released slowly, so maybe start with the Platinum series, and work their way back. Set by set. All they have to do is to figure out how to get the level X mechanic to work, and it is all set. I don't think there are any extra mechanics from the ex series (Ruby and Sapphire to Power Keepers) that isn't already done with the current EX cards. Maybe they have to do something with the hybrid cards found with the delta species pokemon, you know, the ones with 2 types of weaknesses, or the ones that are half lightning half metal pokemon, but all in all, they could go all the way back to Ruby and Sapphire if they get the Level X mechanic working on Pokemon TCG Online.
     
  13. Rocket The Shellos Aspiring Trainer
    Rocket The Shellos

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    Wait, so does this mean there's no legal place for both HGSS and XY? damn, i wanted to use Dialga and Palkia LEGEND with Bronzong and Keldeo
     
  14. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

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    Was Magic Online free to play?
     
  15. Seb Aspiring Trainer
    Seb

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    1 year later and they just unbanned it lol
     
  16. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

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    As this thread was revived:

    So far, it hasn't quite turned out this way; close, but with some significant differences I believe entail a more positive outlook.

    1. If it was just the same X decks over and over again, that ain't necessarily a bad thing so long as X is a large enough number. It also means once you obtain what you need to be competitive, it is "evergreen". No worries about keeping up, just whether you want to add the next of the viable decks.
    2. It is hard to tell, but it seems new decks are found or old decks rediscovered as the time moves on; rarely are these decks top tier but they often exploit what is currently on top. Some of this is likely due to how difficult it is to access the card pool; all of these might have been found out by now if we were all free to use whatever we wanted when we wanted, with no worries towards the grind. ;)
    3. That being said, there are still metagame shifts among old-school, big name players that still like to experiment with Base Set through Fossil. No, I don't mean me; I learned about it from something Ness wrote, though I'm drawing a blank on where I saw it. XP
     
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  17. PMJ :[
    PMJ

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    Flygon is the BDIF by a country mile, but since it requires four Tropical Beach you will almost never see it. @wilyfungi is the only one I have ever seen play it. CeleGen and Weavile are both top tier. I haven't played Legacy in a while so I'm not sure what else is up there. Rayeels?

    The latest deck I heard of was some Magmortar meme deck that automatically decked your opponent out once you set up.
     
  18. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

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    As you say - @wilyfungi is one of the few people who seems to regularly use it, so I'm thinking of Flygon as the best deck. Just to be clear, you mean Accelgor (DEX)/Dusknoir (BCR)/Flygon (BCR)? Just wanted to check because I've seen some use it without the Accelgor but earlier today, that is the version wilyfungi was running when I faced him a few times. If it is the best deck, it might be specifically because of that scarity.

    Am I wrong? Possibly, maybe even probably, but what I am about to say isn't something I can test all that easily. Now me, I'm not a good player. Maybe average, probably a little below average in terms of playing skill. I'm not too great at building my own decks, either, so I'm usually using someone else's list or at least something based on the work of another, tweaked for what I've encountered most lately. Anyway, enough background; the thing I keep experiencing (on either side of it) is that once a deck becomes really popular and successful, the metagame shifts to counter that. When that happens, lesser (but still strong) decks often have a chance to exploit the situation. For that matter, even weaker (but still functional) decks can seem unbeatable when the player reads the metagame correctly... or just gets lucky with his or her choice of deck. XP

    Of course, maybe I'm just missing the forest for the trees. I just know I'm currently enjoying this more than Standard or Expanded play... in part because I've got more of the card pool. XP
     
  19. PMJ :[
    PMJ

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    It's the best deck because it's ridiculously hard to beat. Flygon punishes you for setting up and Accelgor stops you from doing anything once you do. Mr. Mime blocks Night Spear and attacks like it, and Dusknoir prevents you from building up threats on the Bench. It's nuts and I love it.

    It's rarely seen because 4x Tropical Beach is required, and my guess is not a lot of (Legacy) players have them.
     
  20. Otaku The wise fool?
    Otaku

    Member

    First, let me say, I'm going to refer to the deck as "ADF", because I have seen people running just Flygon/Dusknoir, or running it with an alternate component.

    I used to love such kind of decks myself, but then I remembered its a 2-player game. Whether due to an intricate lock or raw power steamrolling my opponent or some other permutation that results in what is effectively a game of solitaire where my opponent is left waiting for me to win and/or hoping and praying I misplay so they have the tiniest of chances. The caveat is that I am okay with this kind of thing if the player uses it has to earn it; that means a perfect lock takes the time and skill to implement that by the time it happens, both players have still had the opportunity to enjoy the game. :) ADF might be the kind where you can still have a good game before you lose, and where it seems like my opponent has earned it however the PTCGO interface still makes the combo painfully slow. None of this affects its status as BDIF, unless being slow starts costing it wins.

    I didn't bring up how rarely it was played to claim it was not the BDIF, but to explain why I couldn't confirm it.

    ADF is ridiculously hard to beat when it
    1. Is well built
    2. Sets up properly
    3. Is played well
    4. Isn't facing a natural counter
    These are some of the data points we must consider and really rely upon, or at least those like myself that don't have a lot of experience facing the deck and none running it.

    I have faced it, however, even beaten it. With so little data, however, it is hard to tell which of the above four points deserve the credit. A poor build can be obvious, but sometimes it is subtle like running the wrong count of a particular card or cards. It is hard to tell if an opponent lost because a particular card was Prized or just refused to show up at the right time. This can easily be confused with a misplay, as the end result looks similar unless you know the contents of the opponent's hand/deck/etc. Finally, there are things that ADF doesn't want to see, but with it being so rare, I only can tell by the happenstance that I am running those things when I bump into @wilyfungi.

    Speaking of which, that happened at least twice yesterday. The first time I was running CML - Cobalion-EX/Mewtwo-EX/Landorus-EX/Garbodor (DRX). I lost, but I was on my last Prize when it happened, both players had low deck sizes, and I forced wilyfungi to play a 7-Prize game. I don't know if it was because I had good luck, locking down Abilities before he had much of a setup, because he had badluck, not getting a fully setup until I had enjoyed a few turns with Abilities locked down. Could be I made the right choices and didn't have a chance of winning, could be I made the wrong choices and could have won. Could be we both made right/wrong choices and luck was with him a little more than me. If need be, I can share more details, but the main thing is I brought out big, Basic attackers with low Energy costs and bounce to the match-up while also locking down Abilities for a time.

    The second match I won via concession, so almost all the same applies except I was running FluffyChomp -
    Altaria (DRX) with Garchomp DRX 90. The concession happened a few turns in, so I don't know if he thought the Flygon would struggle too much with Dragon Weakness, but probably something important on his end was Prized, he made a misplay I didn't notice, or he just had to leave. Still, this both of these bring up possible examples of number four. I've seen other top decks need a break because the metagame shifted to temporarily counter them, so it is possible that would happen with ADF. It also means the format might never truly stagnate; become cyclical, but not stagnant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017

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