Cardfight!! Vaguard Group Discussion

Scorched Feathers said:
>Implying that the game hasn't power crept to hell
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The power creep in Yu-Gi-Oh! makes Vanguard's power creep look minuscule at best since Bushiroad does a better job managing card games than Konami does with Yu-Gi-Oh! (at least most of the time anyway). Vanguard's overdue for an update on it's Banned/Restricted List after Conroe was banned as Starting Vanguard to make Nouvelle Vague less consistent even though the deck is still playable with Red Pulse Dracokid as Starting Vanguard.
 
At this point, I have to say Nouvelle Vague really is ridiculous. It's definitely killing the game for a lot of people. I have no idea why Bushiroad decided to make a kagero extra booster right when set 14 and 15 were already giving them such a boost.
 
There's not going to be a huge shake up in the English Meta until BT16 gets released which means that we're stuck with Nouvelle Vague until Legion arrives. With that being said I don't believe Nouvelle Vague is unbeatable especially when Restanding Vanguards such as Tetra-Drive, Raging Form, Descendant, and Minerva all have favorable matchups against it.

Running a 12 Crit trigger ratio helps in the longrun against Nouvelle Vague since you want to sack and rush hard against them before they ride into it. If you think about it Nouvelle Vague has the same problems as BT08 Crossrides where the base Grade 3 is usually the better card either being Dauntless Drive or DOtE and the Crossride being Nouvelle Vague which doesn't do anything til late game.
 
While set 16 will naturally be the biggest coming shaker to the meta (well, 17 might beat it by the looks of it), 14 is actually looking like it's making an impact. The obvious thing is that Link Joker is getting horribly crippled, after Nouvelle already didn't do it any favors. The other thing is the general support for several clans is helping make the meta more diverse with different decks getting stronger, and surprisingly, Dauntless Reverse is showing signs of lowering the popularity of Nouvelle Vague. People might be running him over Nouvelle since he is more consistent in terms of riding and he kind of provides a better early game and long term play, while Nouvelle is basically an overpowered finisher. Not to mention, to many Kagero players Dauntless Reverse is more fun to play, and Vanguard is definitely a game that is played for fun more than competition. Nouvelle is kind of boring to play with and to play against. Other great new decks like Minerva, for example, also put up a better fight against Nouvelle, like you mentioned. Oh, and BT08 crossrides? The only one I'm aware of is Great Daiyusha... Did you mean BT09? Either way, I disagree about the base being the better card. What I do agree with is that Dauntless is what really makes the deck, not just Nouvelle, and like I said Dauntless Reverse does better on his own than Nouvelle does.
 
Post-BT14 I see alot of players running an even 2-2 or 3-1 split between Perfect Guards and Quintet Walls in order to keep up against Restanding Vanguards. Think about it, they swing with their Restanding Vanguard and you CB1 to top call 5 units to GC for a 1, 2, or no pass while saving enough cards in hand to Perfect Guard the 2nd attack on that turn. Better yet If you manage to play a Perfect Guard off the effect of a Quintet Wall then kudos to you however you still need to pay the discard cost for the Perfect Guard when it's called to GC so that it doesn't get sent to the Drop Zone for no effect like you would calling a Grade 3 to GC off the effect of a Quintet Wall.

The odds of having both 1 Perfect Guard and 1 Quintet Wall in hand by the time your opponent rides into their Restanding Vanguard depends If you're running enough of a split between both Sentinel units and/or enough Draws to compensate it when Crits and Stands are more important than Draws for adding pressure against your opponent while the added defense from Draws won't help much If the Clan you're running is more on offense than defense. To get the best out of a Restanding Vanguard you need a Breakride skill that adds the most pressure against your opponent where as Mordred Phantom doesn't apply enough pressure to make Raging Form as intimidating as it should be.
 
People also tend to forget there's always the option of not guarding a vanguard's attack, especially if it's going to attack again. Yes, even at 4 damage this can be a smart play to save you many cards. Critical triggers are not guaranteed and they also never seem to be as likely to appear at the perfect time the way people assume...
 
As long as your opponent's Restanding Vanguard doesn't get a late game Crit bonus off of a Limit Break skill then I suppose it's worth the risk of not guarding the 1st attack even If you're already at 4 damage which won't matter anyway If they drive check into any Crits where If you get a 6th damage Heal you'll still lose unless you've shuffled back in any Heals from your Drop Zone by performing Legion. While the odds of getting a 6th damage Heal increases with Legion depending If you've used your Heals for guarding early to mid game it's still not a guarantee.

It's very rare to win a game of Vanguard with a 6th damage Heal If you opened the game going 2nd since 9 times out of 10 your opponent will have a much bigger hand size than you when you do get that 6th damage Heal however the odds of your opponent getting a 6th damage Heal after you survived from yours is very rare but it can happen. It's happened to me before back when BT06 was the current English meta in a matchup between GP Ezel and Granblue where late game we tied eachother at a 6th damage Heal but the Granblue player won because I ran out of 5 and 10k shields to guard against his attacks despite sacking into a Crit on my last attack.
 
The only Restanding Vanguard that is even scary imo is Minerva, with Tetra Drive being in second, since they're some of the easiest to pull off. Minerva especially, because she can be fueled quickly, and Tetra can be pulled off as long as you can meet the conditions. Otherwise, the Rebirth is the only other defined Restanding Vanguard that scares me, and that's only because of dumb drive checks q.q Raging Form and Sing Saver are always scary as hell though. ESPECIALLY PBA Sing Saver, that stuff's nasty.
 
I miss when the Cardfight!! Vanguard Anime series was good, now it's just mainly used to promote the game while not giving a crap about the storyline and plot of the series much in the same way the Pokemon Anime nowadays is mainly used to promote the games while TPCi doesn't care about the storyline and plot of the series anymore. It's this growing trend where companies behind Japanese products with Anime series based on them start off with great quality but when they become successful the companies put more effort into the product itself while ignoring the Anime series that helps them promote the product when doing nothing with the Anime series hurts their brand in the longrun (or at least it has the potential to). The companies don't care since they're making money off of the said product, but the people who support the product cares because If they lose the interest in the product's Anime series guess who's going to be hurting.

Now I know alot of Vanguard players take the Anime series with a grain of salt these days and while the Anime series was a contributing factor to it's success in North America the biggest factor to it was that it was a breath of fresh air for people who were fed up with the stagnation and power creep of Yu-Gi-Oh! (myself included). However people in North America have this mentality to bandwagon a TCG just because it's popular while not giving other TCG's a chance that have solid game mechanics and/or good source material such as Future Card Buddyfight and Kaijudo when it could all just boil down to whether or not the said TCG is worth investing money into since they could also be spending money on other TCG's like MTG and Pokemon as well since they don't want to get into a position where they'd risk losing $200+ worth of cards for a TCG that has a likely chance of getting discontinued such as alot of the TCG's developed by Score Entertainment 6 years ago.
 
Starting with Season 5 (Cardfight!! Vanguard G) we're getting new support for Neo Nectar, Nova Grappler, Oracle Think Tank, Royal Paladin, and Kagero while Bushiroad added a brand new clan to the game known as Gear Chronicle. They also introduced a new game mechanic called "Stride" and here's how it works:

  • Similar to Legion both players must have a Grade 3 in their Vanguard Circle in order to Stride.
  • You can Stride after the Ride Phase when you have a Grade 3 Vanguard by discarding cards in your hand that equal a total Grade of 3 or more.
  • Striding does not count as a Ride, so Break Rides don't activate.
  • When you Stride, it gains the name of both itself and the original unit you strode over. It also gains the power of the unit you strode over on top of its base power. (For example, When Harmonics Messiah is Stridden over a 11000 Power vanguard, it will have 27000 base power.)
  • Stride only lasts until the end of turn.
The first Stride unit that Bushiroad unveiled is called Harmonics Messiah which is a 16k base Grade 4 with Triple Drive, counts as ALL clans and nations, and it cannot be run in your main deck since it has a different card back than normal meaning that we're getting Extra Decks in Vanguard similar to Yu-Gi-Oh! with how Fusion, Ritual, XYZ, Synchro, and Pendulum monsters are summoned except they go back to the Extra Deck at the end of turn instead of staying on the field. As for the Anime series Aichi and Kai are no longer the main protagonists while Misaki and Kamui are returning as side characters for Season 5 with the series taking place 3 years after the events of Neon Messiah and Season 4.

The upcoming Trial Decks for Gear Chronicle, Royal Paladin, Neo Nectar, Aqua Force, Link Joker, and Shadow Paladin will contain a playset of it's Triple Rare card instead of just one as well as 2 Perfect Guards and 2 copies of their cover art each. The products for the new season will also partially reset the set order that reflects the divide between Cardfight!! Vanguard and Cardfight!! Vanguard G meaning that instead of the next Vanguard expansion being BT-18 it's starting over to BT-01 so don't get the wrong idea that Bushiroad is implementing a set rotation system to the game cause they're not. They also mentioned about a new phase to the game called "The G-Assist Step" which is designed to help players get out of Grade Lock however no info was given on what it is or how it works right now.
 
You get 2 of the main Card, not 4. The other two RRR cards could be anything.
- G Units exist in the Generation Zone, which is apparently placed above the Damage Zone.
- You can have up to 8 Units in your Generation Zone.
- A Unit that is Strided becomes known as a ハーツ (Haatsu), Hertz or Heart(s).
- A Ride and a Stride are not the same thing, you cannot Break Ride when a G Unit Strides.
- If a Legion is Strided, both Units are treated as ハーツ but you can only pick one to gain the name and Power of. After Stride concludes, the Legion returns to normal, both Units in the Vanguard Area.
- If a Vanguard is face-down due to Delete and you Stride it, it still becomes ハーツ and the G Unit and Heart's Power are combined as normal.
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Chrono Shindou is the main protagonist and uses the new clan Gear Chronicle, Tokoha Anjou is one of the main characters and uses Neo Nectar and Shion Kiba is one of the main characters and uses Royal Paladin. I am insanely hype for the return of OTT and more NN support. This is the release schedule:
Trial Decks 1 & 2: Gear Chronicle & Royal Paladin (11/21/14)
Generation Slide - Booster Set 01: Gear Chronicle, Royal Paladin, Oracle Think Tank, Nova Grapplers and Kagero (12/05/14)
Trial Decks 3 & 4: Aqua Force & Neo Nectar (1/22/15)
Booster Set 02: Aqua Force, Neo Nectar + Unconfirmed Clans
Extra Booster 1: Dimension Police (3/?/15)
Trial Decks 5 & 6: Link Joker and Shadow Paladin (4/?/15)
Fighter's Collection 2015 (4/?/15)
Booster Set 03: Link Joker , Shadow Paladin + Unconfirmed Clans (5/?/15)
Extra Booster 2: Bermuda Triangle (6/?/15)
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I'm probably gonna splash on OTT, then buy 2-3 NN TDs and bide my time til FC2015 and BT-G-03 or BT-G-02 if it has Genesis. Cardfight!! Vanguard G is probably the best thing that could have happened to the game imo.
Also, the old head writers are leaving and being replaced. The lady in charge now wrote some of the best of S1, such as Ren's introduction, Ren vs Kai and Misaki vs Asaka stack shennanigans~
 
Bushiroad updated their Cardfight!! Vanguard home page explaining in detail how the new Stride Mechanic and G Assist Step works:

http://cf-vanguard.com/en/information/g_unit/

In other words Bushiroad's forcing players to run Extra Decks in order to get out of Grade Lock?

That's just stupid.
 
I am a new CFVG player and have a small local tourney this thursday, hoping you guys can help iron out my deck list, it's the first time I have completely built a deck from scratch, before I just had two of the GC starters that I kept modifying as I got new cards, and that worked really well for me. But this new deck not so much. I played five friendly games and only won one, I got grade locked a couple of times, but most of my problem was taking too much damage in the early game and loosing before I could get set up.

The strategy was to use Upheaval Pegasus and the grades one and two that get massive bonuses from his ability to create some massive attacks late game. But I am often dying before I get to stride, or if I do stride I haven't got enough rearguards out at the right time. When I got this strategy out I won really well, and not much could really stop 5 (I got two stand triggers) attacks of 30K+ in one turn, but I lacked the ability to set up consistently and to survive long enough to get a couple of strides off.


Grade 0
  • Brass-winged Gear hawk
  • 4 Vainglory-dream gear cat (stand)
  • 4 Wakey Wakey Worker (stand)
  • 1 Heart Thump Worker (crit - I don't own any more of these)
  • 3 Steam Battler, Meshda (crit)
  • 4 Steam Maiden, Uluru (heal)

Grade 1
  • 4 Withdrawn Gear Raven
  • 3 Steam Breath Dragon (have ordered the fourth one but unlikely to turn up in time)
  • 1 Steam Fighter, Mesh-he (don't own any more)
  • 2 Summit crest gear wolf
  • 4 Mist Geyser Dragon

Grade 2
  • 3 Distance-Running Gear horse
  • 4 Steam Fighter, Amber
  • 4 Iron Fanged Gear Hound

Grade 3
  • 2 Steam maiden, Elul
  • 2 Fatewheel Dragon
  • 4 Chronojet Dragon

Grade 4
  • 4 Inter Dimensional Beast, Upheaval Pegasus
  • 2 Interdimensional Dragon, Lost age Dragon
  • 1 Interdimensional Dragon, Epoch-Maker Dragon
  • 1 Interdimensional Dragon, ragnaclock Dragon

So there is my list, I am having problems with early game and consistency. I have pretty much a playset of all GC cards, apart from ones listed above as not having any more, I also don't have any other grade 4's apart from the starter set ones that aren't great.
 
On the consistency problem: My suggestion is, if you run a deck/Vanguard that requires set-up or having specific cards in play, try running Draws. Especially if those cards don't have searchers and your main G3/G4 don't provide draw power. Otherwise, you're just top-decking and you can't go into every match expecting things to go perfectly and smoothly A.K.A. you getting your required cards on time. I've had a game once where 3 copies of my required card ended up on damage; I'm saying that stuff like that can happen. Though, I normally don't interfere with Trigger choices as I say that it's pretty much just up to player preference, I highly suggest you try this, for both consistency and so that you can play the combo sooner.

For the early game, unfortunately GC really happens to be one of those clans that doesn't do much in the early game. Try guarding early game so you have damage left that you can take in the late game. After all, you're not running any LB4 cards. If you run Legion cards like Ruin Disposal, you can even mitigate the triggers you used to guard early.

Card-wise, if that's your G4 situation, that's fine, as long as you have a plan or you know what you want to do. As for G3, Elul doesn't seem to really do much for the Upheaval Pegasus strategy. Perhaps try dropping it and increase Fatewheel to 3-4, or try Ruin Disposal if you have it? G2 ratio is good, but if you're going to insert Ruin Disposal, you'd need space for Steam Knight Puzur-lli so try subtracting from Gear Horse and or maybe 1 from Amber. For the G1s... As useful as Mesh-he is, 1 copy doesn't do well for consistency, at worst you'll draw it when you need other cards, it's either you put it at least 2 copies or drop it off completely. Since your deck's main plan is to Stride Upheaval Pegasus and swing w/ powered-up RGs, your cards need to be contributing towards that goal. A couple suggestions: 1) Increase the number of Summit crest or 2) Run at least 2 copies of Steam Maiden, Ul-nin so that you can draw and gather your Iron Fangs and Mist Geysers faster.
 
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