Discussion Best Stage 2 Deck Engine?

thecowisred

thecowisred

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hi there,

I am building a stage 2 deck and am having a hard time getting a quick, consistent deck engine built. I have tried the standard Sycamore, Birch/Shauna, ultraball, level ball, VS seeker, rare candy, etc. but just seemed to find myself sitting in the active position as a basic, with usually a basic or stage 1 on my bench looking for more draw cards or evolutions. This has been very frustrating to say the least. I have also started testing Tierno's, deoxys (ROS?), lucky helmet, Skyla, etc. to try and increase the size of my hand in order to get the cards required. It has helped out a bit, but I feel there is something I am missing...

So, my question is, is there a better engine to use when building a stage 2 deck that will help it to perform more quickly and consistently and be able to at least put up a fight against other decks? Or are stage 2 decks just not really playable on a competitive level?

Any thoughts ideas and feedback are hugely appreciated!!!

Thanks!
 
I think that our format has some of the best support for Stage 2s in a long time. Level Ball, Ultra Ball, Rare Candy, Shaymin, Octillery, Bridgette/Wally and Sycamore all allow for some great hand sizes. I would not recommend running Deoxy or Lucky Helmet as they are slow, Skyla is in a similar boat and Tierno is a bit iffy (you'll need to test him).

For Stage 2 decks, I think the aim is to start Turn 1 and drop 2 or 3 Basics of the Stage 1 and drop a Remoraid. Next turn, it would be ideal to evolve into Octillery or constant draw and either Rare Candy or Wally/evolve into the Stage 2s. Robo Subs, Promo Jirachi and Head Ringer can also be nice as to stall or slow down the opponent - fast decks are what hurts Stage 2s the most.

With that in mind, I'd probably run this:

Pokémon: 14-16
  • 4-2-3 Stage 2
  • 1-1 or 2-2 Octillery
  • 2 Shaymin-EX
  • 1 Jirachi Promo
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums: 29 - 32
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 3 Professor Birch's Observations
  • 1 Wally
  • 1 or 2 Bridgette
  • 4 VS Seeker
  • 3 Level Ball
  • 4 Ultra Ball
  • 2-3 Robo Subsitute
  • 2 Head Ringer
  • 2 or 3 Rare Candy
Optional:
3-4 Trainer's Mail
2 Super Rod
1-2 Buddy-Buddy Rescue

Good, General Additions:
3 Muscle Band
1 Lysandre
1 Teammates
3 or 4 Stadium

Unfortunately this skeleton doesn't leave you with all too much room and it is untested, but it would be a nice starting place.
 
Well if it's a water type such as Empoleon, just focus around using Archie. If it's fighting like Gallade, go for the Team Magma counterpart, Maxie.

Forest of giant plants helps so much if you use Vileplume, Shiftry, or Beautifly. All you need at that point is an excessive amount of Pokemon search cards like Ultra Ball and Level Balls.
 
I would swear by Brigette, I almost always include Battle Compressors and VS Seeker in any deck so I can get instant access to the supporter I need, or simply discard those one-off supporters I might want later (Xerosic, Wally, AZ or whatever). That way you can get the most out of 2 Brigette and 1 Wally, which I think is definitely a key inclusion. If the stage 2 is the star if the show I agree with 4-2-3, but with 3 Rare Candy for sure. I find Trainer's Mail can really help in collecting the balls and candies you need. If you run Battle Compressor and VS Seeker 1-2 copies of Skyla can help.
Seems to me the biggest danger to a stage 2 deck is a turn 1 Judge. If on your second turn you've got a bad hand of 4-5 cards you're in big trouble, so stuff like Trainer's Mail can be a big help in mitigating that risk (of course Item-Lock probably means death anyhow, since you have to draw into the Rare Candy conversion or just pray the evolutions come quickly).
Brigette is a huge help so you can swamp your bench with the basic first turn. If that Yveltal EX KO's one you still have a reasonable chance to get your main attacker in play.
1 Super Rod or 1 Sacred Ash is probably enough, choose one depending on whether your deck accelerates energy from the discard or not (or if you run, say fisherman)
1 Heavy Ball can help, depending of course on the pokemon and if you run Skyla.
Part of the advantage if having a stage 2 attacker is forcing your opponent to make 6 KO's so my preference would be not to run Shaymin EX, which I personally believe works best with Basic attackers and of course the Delta Evolving M Ray. Since there is no way to evolve a stage 2 on your first turn, bar Forest of Giant Plants (which would really benefit from Shaymin) you probably want to save Shaymin EX until turn 2, since your perfect hand might get 'Judged' if your opponent sees you telegraphing your blow, or stick with Octillery or Unown, which I think works great with Brigette.
I'd say try to pick a good basic to reduce your bad starts. Your stage 2 deck is going to have tons of bad 50-60 HP basics, 4 Cyndaquil (for example), 2 Remoraid, 2 Shaymin, 1 Jirachi Promo that's 9 basics and they are all terrible starters for the most part. I struggle with this too.
The most success I've had (which I can't claim is much) has been with Archie's and Maxie's in standard or completely committing to the same type of ridiculous draw engine. 4 Trainer's Mail, 4 VS Seeker, Acro Bike or Unown or both, 4 Ultra Ball or 3 Ultra Ball / 2 Level Ball , 2-3 Battle Compressors, 3 Sycamore, 2 Judge, 1 Wally, 2 Brigette, 2 Skyla, 1 Lysandre, 3 Rare Candy.
I think it is very hard to play stage 2 pokemon in standard competitively.
Ninjas: You don't think that a 2-2 line of Octillery is too much, in addition to a couple Shaymin EX? Stage 2 pokemon eat up deck space, between 4-2-3 and Rare Candy and so on? It is 2 more terrible starters. 1-1 might be okay with 2 Shaymin, or 2-2 without Shaymin EX. 2-2 and 2 Shaymin is 4 bad starts in 8 or 9, a 40-50 percent chance you need to hit a scoop up or AZ or switch or something turn 1, instead if getting multiple copies of Froakie or whatevs.
Also, I wouldn't discount Skyla, it is the most versatile search card in Standard: Stadium, Item, Tool or Supporter any Trainer card. Even one copy, dump it with Battle Compressor and VS Seeker it for that Muscle Band for the KO. No?
 
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Hey! Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated!

I forgot about running octilllary as the previous deck I was running used Wobbuffet. Another mistake i made was trying to run a bat line along with the stage 2, so it ended up being way too many evolutions to work with, let alone the deck space a bat line takes up with scoop ups, AZ, etc. I took them out and freed up almost 15 spaces in the deck to help with the stage 2 set up. I also switched out the Deoxys and lucky helmets and replaced with a 3 EX line. Took some of the advice given and put in a Teammates, 3 rare candies (up from 1), a 2-2 line of octilllary (which has been fantastic!).

Been testing the deck online and it has been setting up much better. I am able to get a couple of stage 2's set up usually by t4, which is not bad especially when comparing to previous.

One thing I did do was keep 2 Tierno in the deck as I like to use the card if I have a bunch of resources I know I am going to need in the next turn or 2 rather than birching. I completely took sycamore out as I feel that more times than not I am forced to discard valuable resources such as items and stadiums. I figured that 3 fresh cards may get me what I need.

I guess the next step is to take the deck to the deck garage and get some specific feedback for it!

Thanks again!
 
I concur with many of the above comments regarding cards needed to setup your Stage 2 lines. From my personal experience, I too have found these "core" cards to be very helpful in getting the bench setup quickly:

1-2 Bridgette
2-3 Level Ball
2-3 Trainer's Mail
3-4 Ultra Ball​

Keep in mind that certain Pokemon types also have some unique cards just designed for that type and can also be used effectively. For example, Dive Ball can be used for searching your deck for just Water Pokemon and Korrina searches for a only Fighting Pokemon and an Item. If you plan to build a Water deck, you can utilize Dive Ball and reduce the number of Ultra Ball you might use. For Grass decks, the Forrest of Giant Plants Stadium allows you to evolve your Stage 2 Grass Pokemon all in 1 turn.

Further, Pokemon like Skarmory (ROS 69), a Colorless Basic Pokemon with better than average HP, can be used as a "starter" for its Call for Family attack. Since this Pokemon is Colorless and has a C attack cost, it can easily fit in any "setup" deck to also help get your bench setup.

On the other hand, should you build a Water deck, Basic Pokemon like Lapras can be used as a starter, but its job is to provide energy attachment acceleration onto your bench Pokemon (that you setup via the "Ball engine," for example). Using a Pokemon like Lapras potentially can facilitate energy attachment concurrent with bench setup.

The "bad" news is you have lots of potential options you may want to consider and test; however, the "good" news is you have options.
 
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Unless it's a Water, Fighting, or Grass type you're going to have trouble. Something like Magnezone could be good enough to try anyway and you'll be a little less consistent but also harder to beat when you do get set up. What I will say below is from my experience with Magnezone/Raikou.

4 Sycamore... not Tierno. Birch is alright if you like but Sycamore is better. Play high counts of Rare Candy, Ultra Ball, Trainers' Mail, your basic and stage-2s. Maybe some Level Balls. The important thing is this: speed is already a problem for stage 2 decks... you don't have time to play conservatively and make it more of one. You can play cards like Head Ringer, energy denial cards, etc. to buy yourself time, but you still need to set up as quickly as possible. If you have, for example, your basic in play and a stage-2 in hand, something like Tierno is not a good choice to look for your Rare Candy (Trainers' Mail won't waste your Supporter AND will look an extra card further into your deck for you). If you Sycamore away the stage-2 you still have other copies of it that you can grab with an Ultra Ball or something. You can still play Shaymins or use Octillery's ability or use Trainers' Mail etc. to go through your deck. Play enough consistency cards and trust that you won't miss the resources you're discarding, you'll be able to find your others. Play a Super Rod/Sacred Ash to recover those resources for later - 1 is enough, but 2 can be nice if you have room.

You might like a single copy of Skyla. If you're missing the Rare Candy, you can Skyla for it. If you're missing the stage-2, you can Skyla for an Ultra Ball. If you need more than that you could Skyla for Ultra Ball for Shaymin or something. However it does mean you might be spending your Supporter for the turn searching out a Rare Candy so you might find it too slow (I tried Skyla, but I didn't like it). Another option is Teammates - if your opponent takes a KO you can grab the Rare Candy and the stage-2 at the same time.

Item lock is always going to be bad news for your Stage-2 deck.

For what it's worth, this is the list I use for Magnezone. I get it T2 pretty often and only rarely fail to get it out by the end of T3.
Pokemon - 16
4 Raikou
3-1-3 Magnezone
2 Shaymin-EX
1-1 Octillery
1 Pikachu-EX

Trainers - 34
4 Sycamore
2 Fisherman
1 Judge
1 Teammates
1 Lysandre

4 VS Seeker
4 Trainers' Mail
4 Rare Candy
4 Ultra Ball
3 Level Ball
3 Energy Retrieval
2 Super Rod
1 Professor's Letter

Energy - 10
10 Lightning Energy

If you are playing a deck where you're attacking with a Stage-2, Brigette becomes more useful because you're going to need to set up several copies, copies of the Stage-1 become more useful because you won't need all the copies of the Stage-2 out at once, but the same general ideas apply.
 
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

Pokémon - 21

2 Gallade BKT 84
3 Miltank FLF 83
4 Infernape PLS 17
4 Lileep PLB 3
4 Cradily PLB 4
1 Vileplume AOR 3
3 Beedrill PRC 3

Trainer Cards - 24

1 Computer Search BCR 137
2 Professor Juniper PLF 116
2 Twist Mountain DEX 101
4 Root Fossil Lileep PLB 87
3 N DEX 96
2 Caitlin PLB 78
3 Skyla BCR 149
4 Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear PHF 92
3 Judge BKT 143

Energy - 15

5 Fire Energy HS 116
4 Double Colorless Energy PHF 111
4 Grass Energy HS 115
2 Rainbow Energy BKT 152

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
this is a competely different way to get your stage 2 out
 
I feel some types are better than others. I feel the best at this time are grass, water, and fighting. Korrina searches for the stage 2 and the rare candy (if you already have the basic). They can constantly get stage 2s out turn 2 with 3-4 Korrinas. Fighting also has Maxie which is seen very commonly used with Gallade(BKT).
 
Awesome advice! I don't want to get into specific deck lists in this thread as it is best to go to the deck garage, but these are some excellent examples of some stage 2 engines! I have and will continue to test and make changes based on results from all of the suggestions...

Thanks everyone!
 
kingqazbatt said:
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

Pokémon - 21

2 Gallade BKT 84
3 Miltank FLF 83
4 Infernape PLS 17
4 Lileep PLB 3
4 Cradily PLB 4
1 Vileplume AOR 3
3 Beedrill PRC 3

Trainer Cards - 24

1 Computer Search BCR 137
2 Professor Juniper PLF 116
2 Twist Mountain DEX 101
4 Root Fossil Lileep PLB 87
3 N DEX 96
2 Caitlin PLB 78
3 Skyla BCR 149
4 Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear PHF 92
3 Judge BKT 143

Energy - 15

5 Fire Energy HS 116
4 Double Colorless Energy PHF 111
4 Grass Energy HS 115
2 Rainbow Energy BKT 152

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
this is a competely different way to get your stage 2 out
Click to expand...
I don't understand how you are supposed to get the stage 2s out this way.
 
For reference:

upload_2016-1-5_15-20-33.png

It's pretty cool and a fun deck to play, but it doesn't work as well as you'd want it to.
 
Mora said:
For reference:

View attachment 9473

It's pretty cool and a fun deck to play, but it doesn't work as well as you'd want it to.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this. It's a lot of fun, but it's a bit slow from experience and it's really only good if their is multiple Stage 2s with amazing synergy (which there isn't really any).
 
I always thought Leaf types had tons of good stage 2's. I would have picked LTR Serperior, Noble Victories Leavanny, PRC Sceptile. Free retreat, no weakness and energy acceleration w/healing. Or maybe PRC 8 Sceptile and FUF 3 Victreebel.
 
fr33land said:
I always thought Leaf types had tons of good stage 2's. I would have picked LTR Serperior, Noble Victories Leavanny, PRC Sceptile. Free retreat, no weakness and energy acceleration w/healing. Or maybe PRC 8 Sceptile and FUF 3 Victreebel.
Click to expand...
They can't hold on there own, though. Free retreat and no weakness can be replaced with Keldeo-EX/Float and Weakness Policy respective, and PRC Sceptile is still somewhat slow.
 
I decided to make a Cradilly deck a few months back using Stoutland (BCR) and Vileplume (AOR) and actually found that it worked quite well. The only difficulty when building the deck was trying to get a consistent T1 lifesplosion.
 
The Magnezone deck looks pretty good. Lots of deck space committed to getting Magnezone in play, since basically you're dead in the water until you get it going. You don't think Vileplume is a sufficient enough threat to include a Hex Maniac? Then again unless you play Battle Compressor there's no way to be sure you get it when you need it.
To me, Trainer's Mail looks like the most important card to have it work, hopefully taking the place of Skyla, and doing a better job since you can play multiple copies in a turn. That and the 2 Super Rod so you can Sycamore without too much worry hoping you get the Rare Candy / Magnezone with a fresh 7.
 
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