Standard Another Zoroark/Lucario Variant (Decklist Updated)

[Chicken Nugget Master]

I think this is my third time posting about Zoroark/Lucario, but it is my first time posting since Lucario's release and seeing some tournament play. This list has quite a few surprising twists in it, so I will explain them all afterwards.

4 Zorua
4 Zoroark GX
3 Riolu
3 Lucario GX
1 Alolan Grimer
1 Alolan Muk
2 Tapu Lele GX
1 Diancie {*}
1 Oranguru

4 Ultra Ball
4 Puzzle of Time
3 Choice Band
2 Field Blower
2 Evosoda
1 Float Stone

3 Cynthia
3 Guzma
3 Brigette
2 N
1 Sycamore
1 Wally
1 Mallow

2 Parallel City

4 Double Colorless Energy
4 Strong Energy


Now, the first thing you probably notice is the 1-1 Alolan Muk line. Alolan Muk is what makes this deck borderline broken. Here is a list of the key cards that it turns off:

Mew EX
Eevee
Hoopa
Xurkitree GX
Volcanion EX
Tapu Lele GX
Wobbuffet

You instantly gain the advantage against so many decks just by having this in your deck. And here is where the broken comes in.

Wally.

Let's suppose we play against a Sylveon deck. If we go first, we can T1 Wally for Alolan Muk, and all of a sudden your opponent doesn't have access to Energy Evolution. You can literally just sit there and watch your opponent struggle to set up, and all you need to do is keep spamming Jab to 1HKO their Eevee. And this doesn't just apply to Sylveon, there are so many more examples where T1 Alolan Muk can literally steal you the game there and then. As a quick side note, I use the Sun and Moon base set Grimer, as Buzzwole tears through the Burning Shadows one.

The next point is 0 Acerola. That is because you will never use Acerola. Your opponent knows that if they don't 1HKO you, they either have a Cantankerous Beatdown or an Acerola coming their way. So they will try and get a 1HKO by using Mew EX. Oh wait, they can't use Mew EX because of Alolan Muk shutting it off! Your opponent's next plan of action will then be to Guzma up your support Pokémon and KO them instead. Long story short, Acerola isn't necessary. Feel free to play it with Acerola though, or Scoop up or Devo Spray.

The next point is 0 basic Energy, and that is simply because the only thing we worry about at the moment is Xurkitree. But since Muk shuts off Xurkitree, I don't care about playing any basic energy to try and avoid it. If Noivern ever gets big, perhaps I will rethink this, but for now all Special Energy is fine. I have also played against Noivern several times when me and my testing group decided to have some fun, and I won all the games I played against it.

Thanks for reading, and any suggestions are always welcome (as long as they aren't "include Acerola or Scoop Up!")

 

[gumball51321]

Muk doesn't make much sense TBH. IF you played basic Fighting Energy, you get past Xurkitree already. Eevee are likely to already be on the field(meaning they can manually evolve) or evolved on the first turn, then invest Energy to the already-evolved GX, so they likely wouldn't use Energy Evolution anyway. You already beat Volc, so going overkill doesn't help much. You WANT your opponent to play Leles so you can take them out with Lucario. Mew-EX is all, "whoop de doo, I'll trade prizes with you then be right back where I started". Mew really isn't a problem is my point... And Wobb never really sees play, but you one shot them, and they can just Guzma the Muk and have an almost autowin condition. Having Trade in that matchup isn't important anyway, seeing as they want to deck you out. The only real solution this creates is the Hoopa solution, wwhich is already weak to Fighting, so instead of 3 spaces devoted to Muk, you could just play Zoroark BKT, since without a Benched Pokemon, they lose just from getting knocked out, which is something no mill player ever does, and if they bench more Pokemon, your damage output goes up. Or just take the loss to an irrelevant deck. Muk is spicy, but it's really not good against the relevant metagame, and the archetypes it does work against, you still have options. Look at the Energy discussion this way: For probably 90 % of the time, you will OHKO or 2HKO upon evolution either way. Might as well play Energy that can be used on Zoroark too. Plus you'll still play Strong Energy, it's not like I'm telling you to drop them.

 

[Chicken Nugget Master]

Muk doesn't make much sense TBH. IF you played basic Fighting Energy, you get past Xurkitree already. Eevee are likely to already be on the field(meaning they can manually evolve) or evolved on the first turn, then invest Energy to the already-evolved GX, so they likely wouldn't use Energy Evolution anyway. You already beat Volc, so going overkill doesn't help much. You WANT your opponent to play Leles so you can take them out with Lucario. Mew-EX is all, "whoop de doo, I'll trade prizes with you then be right back where I started". Mew really isn't a problem is my point... And Wobb never really sees play, but you one shot them, and they can just Guzma the Muk and have an almost autowin condition. Having Trade in that matchup isn't important anyway, seeing as they want to deck you out. The only real solution this creates is the Hoopa solution, wwhich is already weak to Fighting, so instead of 3 spaces devoted to Muk, you could just play Zoroark BKT, since without a Benched Pokemon, they lose just from getting knocked out, which is something no mill player ever does, and if they bench more Pokemon, your damage output goes up. Or just take the loss to an irrelevant deck. Muk is spicy, but it's really not good against the relevant metagame, and the archetypes it does work against, you still have options. Look at the Energy discussion this way: For probably 90 % of the time, you will OHKO or 2HKO upon evolution either way. Might as well play Energy that can be used on Zoroark too. Plus you'll still play Strong Energy, it's not like I'm telling you to drop them.

Muk is more a "I'm stopping you from doing what you normally do, so now you have to find another way to beat me" kind of Pokémon. It slows your opponent down, and since this deck is very quick, if they can't get past the Muk shaped roadblock they will be down before they know it. Muk isn't just an early game Pokemon either, it can give you late game help if you need it. My point is, it's better (in my opinion) to have it than not have it. Try it for yourself and see, I'd like to know how other people find it once they've played with it in this way.

 

[gumball51321]

Muk is more a "I'm stopping you from doing what you normally do, so now you have to find another way to beat me" kind of Pokémon. It slows your opponent down, and since this deck is very quick, if they can't get past the Muk shaped roadblock they will be down before they know it. Muk isn't just an early game Pokemon either, it can give you late game help if you need it. My point is, it's better (in my opinion) to have it than not have it. Try it for yourself and see, I'd like to know how other people find it once they've played with it in this way.

Fair enough. I would drop to a 1-1 line though, since in most matchup, you'd rather have something else on the bench.

 

[Chicken Nugget Master]

Fair enough. I would drop to a 1-1 line though, since in most matchup, you'd rather have something else on the bench.

That i can do, what would you suggest replacing it with? I was thinking Baby Zoroark.

 

[gumball51321]

That i can do, what would you suggest replacing it with? I was thinking Baby Zoroark.

Nah, baby Zoro doesn't help much. Drop it for a E-Hammer/Max Potion/ Acerola. You did make a great point about Acerola, but you do delay when they take prize cards for Lucario, and if they retaliate, then you Cantankerous Beat down. Also, you want to T1 Brigette, so Wally just isn't good. It hinders you to not Brigette more than your opponent, since Zoroark wants T1 Brigette more than literally any deck. So even if you don't want Acerola, put in a Max Potion and E-Hammer. But I do insist you play at least one.

 

[Chicken Nugget Master]

Nah, baby Zoro doesn't help much. Drop it for a E-Hammer/Max Potion/ Acerola. You did make a great point about Acerola, but you do delay when they take prize cards for Lucario, and if they retaliate, then you Cantankerous Beat down. Also, you want to T1 Brigette, so Wally just isn't good. It hinders you to not Brigette more than your opponent, since Zoroark wants T1 Brigette more than literally any deck. So even if you don't want Acerola, put in a Max Potion and E-Hammer. But I do insist you play at least one.

I think I'll stick with Wally for now, as it has helped me when I needed it, but I'd like to keep it in on the off chance that it comes in useful (essentially a Giratina promo if you know what I mean) against certain matchups. Baby Zoro is terrible, I haven't used it once in my testing. You can also survive without a T1 Brigette, but it is hard and you have to play to hinder your opponent rather than set yourself up if it ever does happen (about 1 in every 5 games)

 

[Chicken Nugget Master]

Bump, list updated. I added ULP Oranguru and swapped an N for a Sycamore.