An Alternate More Serious Pokémon Anime?

Mitja said:
The thing I find interesting is that the casual legendaries are actually even weaker than Dragonite/Tyranitar/Salamence/Metagross/Garchomp/Hydreigon. If those are fine, then certainly an Entei that cant even learn a decent STAB move naturally should be okay.

I'm tired of all the people with the notion that using legends makes u a bad person, and while I do understand that for the epic mascots/mewtwo, I'm certain the anime is responsible for this popular black/white viewpoint in regards to this topic.

The thing for many people, including myself, is that they feel like legendary Pokémon are in the wild trying to keep the world in balance, or have other reasons to be left alone, and should not be disturbed by being caught. I don't mind it if they are used in the games, but I actually like it that they are hard to get in the anime and manga, and dislike it when they are caught. For me this does not count for legendary Pokémon that do not need to keep balance like Meloetta, Genesect, Deoxys, Victini, etc., but does for most of them.
 
I would love to see a more "mature" anime series, as you could say. It would help expand on the Pokemon universe a lot more and it would draw back the more mature Pokemon fans (such as myself) back to the series. Too bad Nintendo probably won't do that any time soon.
-good riddance
 
Frezgle said:
Legendaries are treated kind of... Oddly in the anime.
Off the top of my head I can think of three separate Articuno (one was even from an episode which mentioned that they're not quite legendary so much as just borderline-extinct), three Lugia (including a baby!), two sets of Regis, three possible Raikou, two possible Suicune, two Entei (not counting) the mirage Entei from M3, two Mews, I don't even know how many Latis, I think several Celebi (though those could all be from alternate timelines like M4 states)...

From what I can tell, some legendaries are treated as extremely rare and powerful but otherwise normal Pokemon, whereas some are treated as deities. The deity-status legendaries are things like Dialga/Palkia/Giratina and Arceus. Actually, Arceus is treated as LESS god-like in the anime, since it's only shown to be able to give life to one area of land, and it is implied that it can be killed. In the games, it creates entire UNIVERSES, even going as far as to create and destroy a universe just to give the player some baby legendaries to choose from.

It's... kind of a hodgepodge, really, the way the anime handles it, but I don't really mind it.

I actually think this is pretty cool since it keeps the "legendary" pokémon strong, rare, and powerful, but more realistic in that there's more than one for some of them.

Would you, or anyone else, care to enlighten me about which pokémon fit into the "powerful and rare but more than one" and the "only one, is a diety" categories in the anime? Or tell me where I can find more information about this? I was looking a bit on bulbapedia, but had a hard time finding concrete information; for example, the page on Latias sometimes refers to "A Latias" implying that there's more than one, but doesn't actually say anything more.
 
Personally if I had to draw a line between legendaries, it would be so that one group are those that feel like just very rare and very powerful pokemon, and those who can be a threat on regional levels I guess.

So ancient epic behemoths with creation myths would be one group and the other ones you just encounter and aren't any worse in terms of stats than the best non-legendary pokemon (pseudo-legends).

casual legendary - mythic pokemon:
so all the traditional trios: birds, beasts, golems, musketeers, lake guardians, latis, heatran, cresselia most event legends

epic legendary:
all mascots, arceus, maybe regigigas (if gamefreak hadn't crippled it this much)
 
Artemis said:
Would you, or anyone else, care to enlighten me about which pokémon fit into the "powerful and rare but more than one" and the "only one, is a diety" categories in the anime?

As far as I know, the ones that only appear once are the dimensional Pokémon (Diagla, Palkia, and Giratina) created by Arceus, Arceus itself, and I assume the pixies (Azelf, Mesprit, and Uxie) as well. Besides the deities I think there is only one Mewtwo since it is created.

I believe all other Legendary Pokémon are rare, but are not alone in their species.
 
If I were to decide for myself, I guess I would have probably created something similar to this:

Mitja said:
casual legendary - mythic pokemon:
so all the traditional trios: birds, beasts, golems, musketeers, lake guardians, latis, heatran, cresselia most event legends

epic legendary:
all mascots, arceus, maybe regigigas (if gamefreak hadn't crippled it this much)

What Drohn brings up about the pixies is interesting, too; they're probably the most storyline-involved "trio" out of all of them, at least as far as the games go. It's definitely interesting to see how the various legendaries are handled in the anime world.
 
Another addition to a "more serious anime" would be injuries, or even in extreme cases death. Yes there would be Pokémon Centers in the more serious anime to cure fainted Pokémon and minor injuries, but some pokes could suffer "career ending injuries" similar to athletes (e.g. Baseball player throwing out their shoulder, or basketball player blowing out their knee). It wouldn't happen often because let's be honest getting hit with a Draco Meteor would cause some major injuries, as would nearly every move.

It could add an interesting wrinkle because how many times has Ash rushed Pikachu to the Pokémon center and Nurse Joy and Chansey/Audino have had to do "surgery" on Pikachu and you know that Pikachu is going to be fine? It would keep you as a viewer on edge knowing that "no one is safe."
 
I'll admit the Pokemon Anime is WAY overdue for a reboot, the recent Beyblade series on Cartoon Network probably had better TV ratings than the Pokemon Black and White series considering that the Pokemon Anime went from being really cool to becoming as childish as Dora the Explorer on Nick Junior. The contrast of overall quality in both the Pokemon and Beyblade Anime franchises shows this sadly to say, Ash Ketchum has been 10 years old for the last 16 seasons since the Anime first aired back in the late 90's and early 2000's. By the time Ash Ketchum becomes a Pokemon Master, Bart Simpson will have graduated from Harvard.

For a more serious Pokemon Anime to be aired on Cartoon Network, I would suggest ending the current Anime series with Ash and Pikachu and replace it with the Manga series of Pokemon Adventures but with Red and Pikachu as the main protagonists. Since it's difficult as it is for Pokemon fans in North America to get ahold of reading the Pokemon Manga online it would be a breath of fresh air especially for younger viewers to enjoy the Pokemon franchise like they did back in Gen I and II with Kanto and Johto. I think Ash and Pikachu really should've won the Sinnoh League at the end of Gen IV and the Anime still could've went on with a new main protagonist with new travel partners for a fresh new start.
 
This would all be a great idea, something fresh and new. It's the same old, same old. It's bugging me, I stopped watching the Anime years ago, about 5 years ago I think.
 
Inferchomp said:
Another addition to a "more serious anime" would be injuries, or even in extreme cases death. Yes there would be Pokémon Centers in the more serious anime to cure fainted Pokémon and minor injuries, but some pokes could suffer "career ending injuries" similar to athletes (e.g. Baseball player throwing out their shoulder, or basketball player blowing out their knee). It wouldn't happen often because let's be honest getting hit with a Draco Meteor would cause some major injuries, as would nearly every move.

It could add an interesting wrinkle because how many times has Ash rushed Pikachu to the Pokémon center and Nurse Joy and Chansey/Audino have had to do "surgery" on Pikachu and you know that Pikachu is going to be fine? It would keep you as a viewer on edge knowing that "no one is safe."

I agree with you on this part. This is one of the reasons I really liked the Sinnoh saga. It seemed more serious, and it appeared as if Ash had grown a lot. It was also more appealing to the older fans, I believe. There was even a death (hunter J). After the Sinnoh saga I thought things were looking up, but in Best Wishes, Ash started over again, and the show didn't have a very serious and dangerous plot anymore. I like the BW saga too, but I have to admit, I was a bit disappointed.
 
Drohn said:
Inferchomp said:
Another addition to a "more serious anime" would be injuries, or even in extreme cases death. Yes there would be Pokémon Centers in the more serious anime to cure fainted Pokémon and minor injuries, but some pokes could suffer "career ending injuries" similar to athletes (e.g. Baseball player throwing out their shoulder, or basketball player blowing out their knee). It wouldn't happen often because let's be honest getting hit with a Draco Meteor would cause some major injuries, as would nearly every move.

It could add an interesting wrinkle because how many times has Ash rushed Pikachu to the Pokémon center and Nurse Joy and Chansey/Audino have had to do "surgery" on Pikachu and you know that Pikachu is going to be fine? It would keep you as a viewer on edge knowing that "no one is safe."

I agree with you on this part. This is one of the reasons I really liked the Sinnoh saga. It seemed more serious, and it appeared as if Ash had grown a lot. It was also more appealing to the older fans, I believe. There was even a death (hunter J). After the Sinnoh saga I thought things were looking up, but in Best Wishes, Ash started over again, and the show didn't have a very serious and dangerous plot anymore. I like the BW saga too, but I have to admit, I was a bit disappointed.

The Sinnoh saga, imo, was the best because of the seriousness of it all. (I mean I like the earlier episodes only because of nostalgia, when I watch them now I just shake my head.) The seriousness doesn't have to be out there all the time, but it can be brought forth every so often with certain arcs (rarely does Pokémon do story arcs :() and themes. I also liked Paul because he was a jerk, and he was good; also because he made fun of Ash's asinine strategies!
 
I still watch the anime and I do enjoy it still. I would love it if they made a more "mature" anime (like the black and white animated trailer) but it will never happen unfortunately. Ah I miss the things that used to happen in the first season.. like when Misty would get angry at Ash and her head would grow to like 10 times it size and look down and shout at him... and also when Misty would kick/hit Ash in the face haha. Hilarious!.

Oh and when someone in the anime said something silly and then ash and co would "throw themselves to the floor" (Although this has happened recently in the N episodes with the professor!) < hopefully you understand what I mean when I say they throw themselves to the floor!
 
I don't recall when did I get the desire for a more serious/mature anime, but I can tell that Pokémon Chronicles and the "recent" B2/W2 promotional trailer helped very much.

Assuming that this new one would air along with the current anime, I would like to see new main characters that traveled for at least two regions because it would be boring to always see a rookie, unless the anime started with a seasoned trainer.
I simply can't no longer identify myself with Ash. The only thing he has achieved was that Orange League Trophy and a "herd" of Pokémon that must be expensive for Oak to keep. And speaking of Oaks, look at Gary: he was an obnoxious kid that used to drive a car with a whole bunch of mindless cheerleaders but has since turned into a doctor/scientist/researcher/whatever at some place in Hoenn and (if I recall it correctly) studying a very interesting subject - fossils. Ash? Still trying to be a champion but will most likely end as a hobo. Oh, and talk about stealing your thunder: Ash is getting greedy when it comes to success because when there's some event that is aimed at one of his companions, if he can particpate then he'll do it, no matter what. A contest? I'm in. An aerial competition? Count me in. A Dragon-type tournament? Oh boy, let me just call my Pokémon buttler Oak and have him send my Charizard.
Another thing : COOKING! Seriously, Ash can't live without a gourmet cooking slave. Unlike 99,9% of trainers, Ash relies on a guy that when someone gets hungry, pops out of his bag a whole set of table, seats, ingredients and pots. Good thing they replaced Brock because that women/Croagunk gag was pissing me off. While Cilan keeps the cooking cliché, at least he has all those unexpected hobbies and the "evaluation time" isn't as frequent as to become too much. Still, at the end of the day: no cooking guy, the main character travels alone.

Rivals - Despite hating Paul because of his methods I must say that as a rival he was almost, if not, perfect. He showed us what we see and (some) do in competitive battling: the search of that great Pokémon, even if that means leaving weak ones behind and playing eugenics with Pokémon. But, to the much surprised lil' Ash that was a new one in his perfect Pokémon world (T.Rocket and poachers don't ring a bell!) and with Paul we see the old tailing thing of Gary, in this case, regarding the Pokémon both Paul and Ash trained. Really, did Ash needed to have almost every single Pokémon that Paul had? And the story repeated itself with Trip with Snivy and Pidove. One more thing lil'Ash seems to forget: there's no such thing as trademarking moves. Ash likes to follow the steps of the E4 he meets and to adopt some quirks from trainers but when Paul decides to mimick that "counter-defence" or something, he gets shocked. Well, call officer Jenny.
I really feel sorry for Hunter J. because, while not being a rival per se, she was one hell of a character and I wished that her Drapion would've crushed Ash and sent him to the afterlife!

Evil team/Team Rocket: no more silly trio. I liked the beggining of Best Wishes because James, Jessie and Meowth decided to go on a serious and professional tone but then...we all know how that's going.
One thing that keeps pissing me is how Ash learns of an evil team that seeks something big, some episodes latter he twarts their plans while getting to meet some legendaries and the next episode he simple goes to his own life of challeging the next gym...Talk about life-changing events, for Ash they as trivial as...as....doing whatever he does.

Breaking promises: by this time, how many times has Ash promised to have a rematch with trainers? And how much of those have come to happen? Btw, poor Pidgeot is still waiting for him. I've got an ideia for an episode of this more serious anime: have the protagonist meet a lonely Pidgeot that because of having being abandoned, is attacking all trainers that pass through Viridian (or Route1?). Then, he'll battle it and capture it (I don't remember if Ash did release it or just didn't never called it back into it's PKball).

Battles: no more last minute miracle strength, no more "wins, wins, loses, learns a lesson, go into hard training, wins rematch". Trainers should be more careful when deciding to battle or not, while battling and when risking their Pokémon lives. Being a trainer ain't easy (except for Ash with that cooking slave and brainwashed Pokémon) and I want to see that in the anime. Oh, and like some have already said here before, make the Pokémon dodge attacks on it's own and not only when ordered to.

Cries: I think that having the Pokémon saying their name instead of having actual cries may be because it's easier for the dubbing, instead of having to create cries with different tones. Still, this is something that can be discussed.

PS: my favorite episodes are the Peak Maiden one and the Ninetales/Brock doppelganger. Those where sad episodes but that is what makes them good and unforgettable. I wish there were a few more like them.
 
Inferchomp said:
Drohn said:
I agree with you on this part. This is one of the reasons I really liked the Sinnoh saga. It seemed more serious, and it appeared as if Ash had grown a lot. It was also more appealing to the older fans, I believe. There was even a death (hunter J). After the Sinnoh saga I thought things were looking up, but in Best Wishes, Ash started over again, and the show didn't have a very serious and dangerous plot anymore. I like the BW saga too, but I have to admit, I was a bit disappointed.

The Sinnoh saga, imo, was the best because of the seriousness of it all. (I mean I like the earlier episodes only because of nostalgia, when I watch them now I just shake my head.) The seriousness doesn't have to be out there all the time, but it can be brought forth every so often with certain arcs (rarely does Pokémon do story arcs :() and themes. I also liked Paul because he was a jerk, and he was good; also because he made fun of Ash's asinine strategies!

Yeah Sinnoh Saga would've been better If Ash had won the Sinnoh League, even by doing so they could still continue the series with a different set of protagonists since Ash Ketchum has overstayed his welcome being 10 for 16 years. The plot with Chimchar's relationship with Paul into becoming Infernape seems like another recycled plot device of "Fire Starter gets abused by Trainer but then befriends Ash later", not only has this happened with Chimchar but also Charmander and Cyndaquil in the Anime series. The Pokemon battles throughout the Sinnoh Saga were really good, mostly up to par with the battles in Kanto and Johto probably.

I did like how in the Sinnoh Saga they did a throwback to the Battle Frontier with Brandon also befriending Regigigas, I thought that was awesome. As for the Black/White Anime Series it felt like the target demographic drastically changed from 12-13+ to 5-6+ dating back from when the Anime first debuted with the Indigo League and Season 1. Aside from that Gen V as a whole felt very "rushed" as Nintendo and Game Freak didn't put a whole lot of effort into it like what they're doing with Gen VI in XY. I really loved the Pokemon Anime series from Kanto and Johto Saga's up to Sinnoh Saga as Unova was a huge letdown in terms of overall quality. Hopefully Kalos doesn't disappoint although I would prefer the main Pokemon Anime series to have this kind of quality and dubbing:

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-X03D3tSVU[/video]
 
@Leaf_Ranger
I just gotta do a slow clap for your post. Not only did you make me laugh but your points ring true as ever. :p
I have to say though that I disagree about Team Rocket. They have made leagues of improvement just in BW and I think it will only get better moving forward. They got a lot more serious but they still maintain a hint of foolishness, which is what we (I?) know and love them for. It just would not be Pokemon without Team Rocket.

Inferchomp said:
Another addition to a "more serious anime" would be injuries, or even in extreme cases death.

I agree completely that there should be more violence if they do a more mature series. Just a few weeks ago, when Ash and N: A Clash of Ideals! aired, I was absolutely and utterly shocked to see the scene where Detective Looker slams Aldith against the side of the ruin and holds a metal bar to her throat as a threat to keep the other grunts away. The fact that I was shocked that they actually put that in the episode says loads about the lack of violence and reality in these shows. SPOILER: In the following episode they attack and then capture Iris/Cilan/Juniper. It would have been better if they had just taken that a step further and had Aldith order a grunt to slit Cilan's throat or maybe put Iris on the torture rack or something. As if that would ever happen though, psh.
 
I suggest that you read the pokemon Adventures Manga Red is a very good hero who gets things done. He's much more intelligent than Ash and the same goes for his companions.
 
Elite Stride said:
@Leaf_Ranger
I just gotta do a slow clap for your post. Not only did you make me laugh but your points ring true as ever. :p
I have to say though that I disagree about Team Rocket. They have made leagues of improvement just in BW and I think it will only get better moving forward. They got a lot more serious but they still maintain a hint of foolishness, which is what we (I?) know and love them for. It just would not be Pokemon without Team Rocket.

Inferchomp said:
Another addition to a "more serious anime" would be injuries, or even in extreme cases death.

I agree completely that there should be more violence if they do a more mature series. Just a few weeks ago, when Ash and N: A Clash of Ideals! aired, I was absolutely and utterly shocked to see the scene where Detective Looker slams Aldith against the side of the ruin and holds a metal bar to her throat as a threat to keep the other grunts away. The fact that I was shocked that they actually put that in the episode says loads about the lack of violence and reality in these shows. SPOILER: In the following episode they attack and then capture Iris/Cilan/Juniper. It would have been better if they had just taken that a step further and had Aldith order a grunt to slit Cilan's throat or maybe put Iris on the torture rack or something. As if that would ever happen though, psh.

First of all, thank you!:D
About Team Rocket...I've liked their new "approach" in B/W but in the end they went back to their older stuff. There's no more "General" Giovanni, no more Dr. Zaeger, no more Giovanni's secretary and no more of that great TR agent, Pierce.
To this day, I still remember their debut back in Kanto and I loved them as soon as I saw them but right in the next episode I got disappointed. I choose Bulbasaur but Jessie's and James' Pokémon were the ones that made me love Poison-type, second only to Grass. I love every Pokémon of them and their gags but it gets too much and that's is why I agree when you say that they need to keep some foolishness, but I'd rather like to see that between and inside the trio than showing that when facing Ash & Co. (save for a few occasions).

About that episode, I was also shocked. For a moment it was as if Looker showed that he had enough with being a nice guy.
 
Can... can it be? Our prays have been answered...maybe. I hope so.
[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/_Lyi2RSVxqg[/video]
 
@Sheodon
I think you're going to be very disappointed if you've been led to believe that The Origin is going to turn into a full fledged series. :p
 
Origin is probably more like what the anime should've been in the first place, but I'm not holding my breath since it's just a special. There's also no guarantee that it would fix many of the problems that have been brought up in this thread, for all we know it could still be the same filler laden plot we've all come to hate.
 
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