Discussion Generation 4 Remakes Around the Corner?

[superdan51]

So they should spend the energy remaking a game most of us have already played, and the curious & ignorant can still play on current generation hardware?

ok

Well looking as how ORAS only had 900 thousand less copies sold compared to SM tells me that they arent doing too bad with the remakes. Theyre a business they care about game sales not about who can play what. The 3DS will always be part of their flasgship because its way more convenient compared to the switch. Are you trying to tell me that they should never remake a game again because the 3DS will not discontinue? SM probably took about 3 years to make. If we didnt get ORAS during 2014 to hold off the two years for it to release their sale numbers probably wouldn't have been as high. They need the remakes as a buffer until the next game or else people will just move onto something else. Remakes keep people engaged in the series while they work on new projects. People play the games for a year and then the next games hype starts a few months later. If they had just 3 years of nothing before the next game the series would die out faster than it already is. This is why remakes are key especially now that they need to port a game onto a new console. Remakes are important to any series because theyre easy to make and only really take a team of like 6 people to remodel the map and add a few new features.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I would definitely like to see remakes resemble sequels a little more, but it seems like Game Freak doesn't want to mess with the games much because of nostalgia. What I think they can do with Sinnoh remakes to make them more exciting is have National Dex Pokemon obtainable in the main game like with Island Scan in SM. New Pokemon would really help change the experience but purists would probably oppose an outright dex expansion, so this would be a good compromise. In DP's case, the Pokeradar would be a good candidate for this, they could make the Pokeradar obtainable in the main game and you can use it to find non-Sinnoh Dex Pokemon.

Also, the Pokeradar would also be a good way to bring back Dexnav functionality. Since the Dexnav is universally regarded as the best thing since sliced bread I can see them bringing it back.

 

[fleshrum]

Are you trying to tell me that they should never remake a game again because the 3DS will not discontinue?

strawman.

You dont realize my point and its because youre so ignorant.

ad hominem.

You're ignorant of this, but its probably because you started in Gen V or Gen VI.

appeal to authority. Also, incorrect.

Remakes are important to any series because theyre easy to make and only really take a team of like 6 people to remodel the map and add a few new features.

Begging about a dozen questions.

Now if you could actually read my posts and stop being ignorant, you might be able to actually learn something about gaming.

ad hominem again.

Seeing you get this fired up about an entertainment franchise is kind of depressing!

Anyway, based on the current trend of cuts to functionality and, in the case of remakes, removing features for the sake of authenticity, spending resources on remaking a previous entry will lead to stagnation. Nostalgia is a provably unsustainable market. However, if a remake builds upon the original, like well-made sequels do, then the combination of nostalgia plus innovations in design would make said remake worthwhile.

 

[Hackzo23]

Poketubers are not evidence of a remake either. They're still only a handful of people in a sea of tens of millions of Pokemon fans, that in and of itself doesn't prove anything. What you need to be looking at is comments, not videos, and the more generalized the better. If you see a video/article about DP remakes, that may not say anything because even for a video discussing the possibility of DP remakes, the only people even watching the video are going to be interested in the topic. Not necessarily interested in DP remakes, but interested in discussing whether or not they're a possibility.

Never said they were evidence for remakes. If I insinuated that, thats my mistake. My point was a few (maybe more) youtubers have been looking for hints/clues for the next Pokemon game. And many have come to the same conclusion that the next game could be a DPPt remake. With all the evidence in the game pointing to that. For instance I'd like to point you to this video here:

Pretty much explains all of the in-game evidence I have been mentioning. This is just one of many videos theorizing about this.

What you want to look for really, is a more generalized website or Youtuber. Go somewhere like IGN or Gamexplain, look at a general topic such as what games they want to see for the Switch or what remake they want to see. If a lot of them say DP remakes, then that's more of an indication that there's enough demand. Until about the last couple of months, I never saw a lot of comments like that on those types of sites.

First off, IGN is kind of a joke, in my opinion. I do like Gamexplain, but they most likely aren't gonna be talking about it that much because they focus on all games instead of just Pokemon. Their eyes are set on other topics instead. Plus it would only come up the last couple of months because for about the past year up to the end of November we were waiting for Sun and Moon to come out so there was no need to talk about remakes because we already knew what the new Pokemon game was. And like I previously stated Sun and Moon is full of Gen 4 hints/Clues. So the comments about Gen 4 remakes wouldn't happen until Sun and Moon came out because until then we had no basis to go off of for a DPPt remake, let alone any new pokemon game.

It's not just about time though, you can have a game that's 20 years old and if it still stands out as a great game as it was 20 years ago, there's really no need for an update. In this day and age especially, you have services like VC where you can just port the game to the current system and be done with it. Remakes usually happen because the game is outdated enough to need or benefit from an update and/or because they were popular enough that a lot of people would buy them all over again. DP isn't quite there on either of those yet, the game still stands out as one of the best in the series and the series hasn't really progressed enough for it to feel outdated, and as I said above, the demand is only just starting to pick up. So now isn't quite the best time, once 8th gen comes out and introduces some more new features then it'll be more likely that DP will be outdated enough for a remake.

I have acknowledged before that its not just about time. DP were very popular being the fifth best selling games and best selling pokemon games on the nintendo ds. Thats more than HGSS, which many have argued is the best pokemon games made. Even more than RS, games which did receive remakes. You would think Gamefreak would look at those numbers and take that into account.
Yes, Gamefreak looks at demand for a remake, but you also have to keep in mind that they are a business and they look at numbers too.
Remakes are an easy cash cow for Gamefreak. There is no way they would pass up on making this remake.

I never said that I can't or wasn't relying on patterns. What I'm saying is that you need something stronger than patterns to back your opinion up. I'm not just relying on them skipping generations, I'm analyzing WHY they're sticking to that pattern and using business logic to predict which patterns they might stick to and which they might break.

Im not relying on patterns either. Im looking at all patterns they have had, ones that they have broken and making a logical guess. There is no way of knowing what game is next, whether a sequel, a remake, or even a brand new game. The point I'm making is the possibility that there could be a DPPt remake as the next game. And I could be wrong here, but it seems you are just shutting that down. You're not even keeping an open mind about it. Like I previously stated, back before ORAS, many people didn't think RS weren't going to receive a remake because there was no need, and like we all know now, RS did get a remake. And the people who did guess for a remake made those assumptions based off of the hints/clues in XY. People said you can't base the possibility of a remake off of that. And here we are with ORAS. Just saying just cause you dont want a DPPt remake/would rather have a new game/sequel, dont rule out a remake. Keep an open mind.

Thing is though, since the concept of regional dexes have started, they've NEVER included all National Dex Pokemon in a regional dex each generation. That's just not feasible, there's too many Pokemon now for them to do that. So it doesn't matter if they're not in the Alola Dex, it matters whether or not they're in the generation altogether. In most cases, you're not going to see every 4th gen Pokemon in a regional dex, the only instance where that is true is when there's a Sinnoh game that generation. So the dex makeup doesn't really prove anything.

So just because I showed you were wrong about the numbers of the pokedex now all of a sudden it doesn't matter. When you're wrong at least stand your ground and admit it. Dont be the guy who acts like it doesn't matter when proven wrong.
And I dont know where you're coming up with this "fitting he whole national dex in a game." Never mentioned that, not close. This is a fallacy in arguments where you try to use an argument unrelated to the topic to make your point.

The Topic-SM have less gen 4 pokemon like XY had less gen 3 pokemon, therefore gen 4 remakes are likely.
Your argument- We can't fit the entire national dex into a game. It would be impossible

Your argument is unrelated. Stay on topic.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Never said they were evidence for remakes. If I insinuated that, thats my mistake. My point was a few (maybe more) youtubers have been looking for hints/clues for the next Pokemon game. And many have come to the same conclusion that the next game could be a DPPt remake. With all the evidence in the game pointing to that. For instance I'd like to point you to this video here:

Pretty much explains all of the in-game evidence I have been mentioning. This is just one of many videos theorizing about this.

We also found evidence for Z, but that didn't happen, now did it? You can't read too much into things, there's a lot of "hints" and loose ends in the game, that doesn't mean Game Freak is going to make anything of them.

First off, IGN is kind of a joke, in my opinion. I do like Gamexplain, but they most likely aren't gonna be talking about it that much because they focus on all games instead of just Pokemon. Their eyes are set on other topics instead. Plus it would only come up the last couple of months because for about the past year up to the end of November we were waiting for Sun and Moon to come out so there was no need to talk about remakes because we already knew what the new Pokemon game was. And like I previously stated Sun and Moon is full of Gen 4 hints/Clues. So the comments about Gen 4 remakes wouldn't happen until Sun and Moon came out because until then we had no basis to go off of for a DPPt remake, let alone any new pokemon game.

Well IGN and Gamexplain are just examples. You could just as easily say Gamespot or Kotaku, etc. That they're not Pokemon focused is the entire point, a generalized site has a larger and less biased audience so it's much stronger at gauging . The views of dedicated fans aren't always (and usually aren't) reflective of how much demand there is, and Game Freak being a business is going to base their decisions on this larger audience. So if Pokemon fans are talking about DP remakes, that just means a vocal minority of dedicated fans want it. But if you see generalized sites talking about DP remakes? Then there's a much larger demand for them.

I have acknowledged before that its not just about time. DP were very popular being the fifth best selling games and best selling pokemon games on the nintendo ds. Thats more than HGSS, which many have argued is the best pokemon games made. Even more than RS, games which did receive remakes. You would think Gamefreak would look at those numbers and take that into account.
Yes, Gamefreak looks at demand for a remake, but you also have to keep in mind that they are a business and they look at numbers too.
Remakes are an easy cash cow for Gamefreak. There is no way they would pass up on making this remake.

Sales data from 10 years ago doesn't really have a lot of bearing on how a game would sell now. There's all sort of different factors involved there such as the hardware, install base, changing attitudes and expectations towards games, and so on. I agree that it's an easy cash cow and it's going to happen eventually (probably in about 2 or 3 years). Just not now. There's not enough demand for them yet and they're better off waiting until 8th gen.

Im not relying on patterns either. Im looking at all patterns they have had, ones that they have broken and making a logical guess. There is no way of knowing what game is next, whether a sequel, a remake, or even a brand new game. The point I'm making is the possibility that there could be a DPPt remake as the next game. And I could be wrong here, but it seems you are just shutting that down. You're not even keeping an open mind about it. Like I previously stated, back before ORAS, many people didn't think RS weren't going to receive a remake because there was no need, and like we all know now, RS did get a remake. And the people who did guess for a remake made those assumptions based off of the hints/clues in XY. People said you can't base the possibility of a remake off of that. And here we are with ORAS. Just saying just cause you dont want a DPPt remake/would rather have a new game/sequel, dont rule out a remake. Keep an open mind.

I'm doing the exact same thing you're doing. The difference between you and me is that you're looking into every minute detail in the games and using throwaway references. Fact of the matter is these references mean nothing. We get these all of the time for various regions now, so they don't prove anything about the direction of the next game. I remember leading up to XY's announcement that a lot of people thought they would announce RS remakes then and pointed towards similar "hints" in BW and BW2 and they turned out to be wrong. Sure, it's possible that it could be the next game. Pretty much anything is possible. But is it likely to happen? Not really.

So just because I showed you were wrong about the numbers of the pokedex now all of a sudden it doesn't matter. When you're wrong at least stand your ground and admit it. Dont be the guy who acts like it doesn't matter when proven wrong.
And I dont know where you're coming up with this "fitting he whole national dex in a game." Never mentioned that, not close. This is a fallacy in arguments where you try to use an argument unrelated to the topic to make your point.

The Topic-SM have less gen 4 pokemon like XY had less gen 3 pokemon, therefore gen 4 remakes are likely.
Your argument- We can't fit the entire national dex into a game. It would be impossible

Your argument is unrelated. Stay on topic.

It is relevant. Saying that a lack of 4th gen Pokemon in the Alola Dex is evidence of DP remakes means that you're basing the possibility of remakes on which National Dex Pokemon have not appeared in a regional dex that generation. Dex distribution has never worked this way, there's nothing that says that all 4th gen Pokemon have to show up in a regional dex this generation. Remakes are the only situation where that's true for the respective generation, so that doesn't prove that there's going to be a remake.

 

[Hackzo23]

We also found evidence for Z, but that didn't happen, now did it? You can't read too much into things, there's a lot of "hints" and loose ends in the game, that doesn't mean Game Freak is going to make anything of them.

The only evidence we had for a Z version was the lack of a story for Zygarde. And we were relying on a third version since up till that point we've always gotten a third version that explains the third legendary. Or in B2W2 case, we got sequels, but a third version in their own way, still giving a story for the 3rd legendary. So we have that one piece of evidence vs. all the evidence pointing to a remake.

Well IGN and Gamexplain are just examples. You could just as easily say Gamespot or Kotaku, etc. That they're not Pokemon focused is the entire point, a generalized site has a larger and less biased audience so it's much stronger at gauging . The views of dedicated fans aren't always (and usually aren't) reflective of how much demand there is, and Game Freak being a business is going to base their decisions on this larger audience. So if Pokemon fans are talking about DP remakes, that just means a vocal minority of dedicated fans want it. But if you see generalized sites talking about DP remakes? Then there's a much larger demand for them.

I can agree with you on that, but the point I'm making is that sites like that focus on all games. So they are preoccupied with other games that are coming out, or will soon come out.
For example: I know plenty of people who love and play pokemon games. but when the game comes out they play it and when they beat it they put it down and move on to something else. They just want to play games, they dont theorize about whats next or care about whats next. Just when they release a new pokemon game they will go out and play it.
I could be wrong but I feel most people are like that. To a higher or lower degree than the example I just gave. But that won't hold much weight. Gamefreak has a target audience. They want to please their fans. So they probably hold them in a higher regard than the general gaming community.

Sales data from 10 years ago doesn't really have a lot of bearing on how a game would sell now. There's all sort of different factors involved there such as the hardware, install base, changing attitudes and expectations towards games, and so on. I agree that it's an easy cash cow and it's going to happen eventually (probably in about 2 or 3 years). Just not now. There's not enough demand for them yet and they're better off waiting until 8th gen.

It may be 10 years old, but I'm fairly certain its not all that different now.
1. They stopped making those older games, so its not like the sales would be drastically different. Maybe a little higher.
2. The fact still stands, If they're gonna look at sales, they're gonna be looking at those numbers. Gamefreak won't see them and be like "Oh, those are 10 years old. They hold no bearing." No. It shows how popular those games were back then, and those numbers show that it would be popular nowadays.

I'm doing the exact same thing you're doing. The difference between you and me is that you're looking into every minute detail in the games and using throwaway references. Fact of the matter is these references mean nothing. We get these all of the time for various regions now, so they don't prove anything about the direction of the next game. I remember leading up to XY's announcement that a lot of people thought they would announce RS remakes then and pointed towards similar "hints" in BW and BW2 and they turned out to be wrong. Sure, it's possible that it could be the next game. Pretty much anything is possible. But is it likely to happen? Not really.

Those "throw away references" are the same "throw away references" in XY that pointed to a RS remake. Which turned out to be true. You must forget that Gamefreak/nintendo likes to include easter eggs pointing to new things coming up. They do it in the games and even the anime. So clearly they dont mean nothing. If going by your logic, then that "mysterious statue" in XY wasn't actually pointing towards SM. And it turned out to be a coincidence?
We get them now about every region/generation but if you use logic you can rule out everything. SM had plenty of references to gen1, probably because it was the 20th anniversary. Plus it wouldn't make sense for a gen 1 remake as we have already had one.
I can't recall any gen 2 references but its the same point as the previous. We've already had a gen 2 remake, so it wouldn't make sense to assume they're making one of those. And same thing for gen 3. Now you could argue about a gen 5 or 6 remake. But again if you use logic clearly 6 wouldn't be the case because its the previous generation. And 5 wouldn't be the case because why would the do generations 1,2,3, then skip 4 to go to 5. If you use a little logic you can conclude that all those references are throwbacks to those generations. Gen 4 references, while also throwbacks, are the only ones that hold any weight.
And B2W2 gen 3 references while I can't remember so ill take your word for it were completely justified for us to assume. We've had a remake for 2 generations in a row. It was only logical that we assume we were getting another. And this is what I meant about patterns earlier. They broke that pattern, and I like to keep that in mind.

It is relevant. Saying that a lack of 4th gen Pokemon in the Alola Dex is evidence of DP remakes means that you're basing the possibility of remakes on which National Dex Pokemon have not appeared in a regional dex that generation. Dex distribution has never worked this way, there's nothing that says that all 4th gen Pokemon have to show up in a regional dex this generation. Remakes are the only situation where that's true for the respective generation, so that doesn't prove that there's going to be a remake.

Never said all gen 4 pokemon have show up in a regional dex. Never said that it proves there is gonna be a remake. Just said its evidence that point to a remake.
And no,it is not relevant. We were on one topic, and you went off to another to try and prove a point. Clearly they can't put all pokemon in a regional dex. Knowing this, Game freak has to choose which pokemon to include and which ones not to. They make a conscious decision on this. Which I feel strengthens my argument. Because that means they purposely put less gen 4 pokemon in this generation. Just like they did with XY and gen 3 pokemon. I can guarantee you they did not randomly pick pokemon to put in the game.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

The only evidence we had for a Z version was the lack of a story for Zygarde. And we were relying on a third version since up till that point we've always gotten a third version that explains the third legendary. Or in B2W2 case, we got sequels, but a third version in their own way, still giving a story for the 3rd legendary. So we have that one piece of evidence vs. all the evidence pointing to a remake.

Not just Zygarde, but Ash Greninja, Eternal Flower Floette, the locked Power Plant doors, and references to Southern Kalos. All references to a potential Z version that never came to be.

It may be 10 years old, but I'm fairly certain its not all that different now.
1. They stopped making those older games, so its not like the sales would be drastically different. Maybe a little higher.
2. The fact still stands, If they're gonna look at sales, they're gonna be looking at those numbers. Gamefreak won't see them and be like "Oh, those are 10 years old. They hold no bearing." No. It shows how popular those games were back then, and those numbers show that it would be popular nowadays.

It's not this simple, audiences come and go and the market changes over time. Some people get too old or loose interest and some entered the market after the original was made. And when those audiences come and go, they don't necessarily hold the same views about gaming or like the same things. For instance, look at the late 90's and early 2000's, there were a lot of sandbox 3D platformers (like Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, etc.). Fast forward 10 years later, that style of game completely disappeared and there was more interest in FPS games. Similarly, younger gamers may not be as interested in DP as the older gamers that bought the original. It may still be popular, but they can't tell that just by looking at how the original game sold. They have to also look at how Pokemon games sell now.

Those "throw away references" are the same "throw away references" in XY that pointed to a RS remake. Which turned out to be true. You must forget that Gamefreak/nintendo likes to include easter eggs pointing to new things coming up. They do it in the games and even the anime. So clearly they dont mean nothing. If going by your logic, then that "mysterious statue" in XY wasn't actually pointing towards SM. And it turned out to be a coincidence?
We get them now about every region/generation but if you use logic you can rule out everything. SM had plenty of references to gen1, probably because it was the 20th anniversary. Plus it wouldn't make sense for a gen 1 remake as we have already had one.

I can't recall any gen 2 references but its the same point as the previous. We've already had a gen 2 remake, so it wouldn't make sense to assume they're making one of those. And same thing for gen 3. Now you could argue about a gen 5 or 6 remake. But again if you use logic clearly 6 wouldn't be the case because its the previous generation. And 5 wouldn't be the case because why would the do generations 1,2,3, then skip 4 to go to 5. If you use a little logic you can conclude that all those references are throwbacks to those generations. Gen 4 references, while also throwbacks, are the only ones that hold any weight.

And how do you know which references are pointing to new things and which references are throwbacks? You yourself admit that the 4th gen references are throwbacks, so how do you know that they amount to anything? And how do you know the 1st gen references are just 20th anniversary references? You're arbitrarily deciding which references mean something and which ones don't. If they don't all mean something, then they can't really be used as evidence.

And B2W2 gen 3 references while I can't remember so ill take your word for it were completely justified for us to assume. We've had a remake for 2 generations in a row. It was only logical that we assume we were getting another. And this is what I meant about patterns earlier. They broke that pattern, and I like to keep that in mind.

BW2 had the Magma/Aqua grunts in Icirrus City, the return of Dive, and the mention of the Go-Goggles and Mirage Tower in Desert Resort.

And no, it wasn't logical to assume that. 5th gen was an extremely unconventional generation, it was the first time we had a new generation on the same hardware, it was the first generation to have sequels instead of a third version, and there were lots of other changes to the series around that time. That generation really proved that we couldn't assume anything.

Never said all gen 4 pokemon have show up in a regional dex. Never said that it proves there is gonna be a remake. Just said its evidence that point to a remake. And no,it is not relevant. We were on one topic, and you went off to another to try and prove a point. Clearly they can't put all pokemon in a regional dex. Knowing this, Game freak has to choose which pokemon to include and which ones not to. They make a conscious decision on this. Which I feel strengthens my argument. Because that means they purposely put less gen 4 pokemon in this generation. Just like they did with XY and gen 3 pokemon. I can guarantee you they did not randomly pick pokemon to put in the game.

You have no idea why they choose to put certain Pokemon in the regional dex, you're not Game Freak, you don't make the games. Again, this is an assumption. They could be excluding 4th gen Pokemon from SM because there's DP remakes coming. But they could just as easily have excluded them because they simply didn't want to put them in or wanted other Pokemon more. It's impossible to tell which is which without being involved in the development of the game.

 

[Hackzo23]

Not just Zygarde, but Ash Greninja, Eternal Flower Floette, the locked Power Plant doors, and references to Southern Kalos. All references to a potential Z version that never came to be.

1- ash greninja was introduced in SM via SM demo. Doesn't count.
2- eternal flower floette was never released (not even in japan) so you can't count that.
3- Just cause you can't access a place is no indicator that there will be a sequel.
4-And the only reference to southern Kalos is Kiloude city. The only thing that they mention is on the map "This city, popular with Pokémon Trainers, is a typical example of southern Kalosian life." No hint to southern Kalos. Just stating that this town is in the south part of Kalos and is typical of southern kalosian life.

It's not this simple, audiences come and go and the market changes over time. Some people get too old or loose interest and some entered the market after the original was made. And when those audiences come and go, they don't necessarily hold the same views about gaming or like the same things. For instance, look at the late 90's and early 2000's, there were a lot of sandbox 3D platformers (like Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, etc.). Fast forward 10 years later, that style of game completely disappeared and there was more interest in FPS games. Similarly, younger gamers may not be as interested in DP as the older gamers that bought the original. It may still be popular, but they can't tell that just by looking at how the original game sold. They have to also look at how Pokemon games sell now.

I'm sure its not. And I agree with everything you said. But if they look at how pokemon games sell now they will see that they sell just as good as before. So it would make sense to remake a popular game. And the reason they bring back old pokemon is to introduce them to the newer players. Seems like a remake would be the good way to that.

And how do you know which references are pointing to new things and which references are throwbacks? You yourself admit that the 4th gen references are throwbacks, so how do you know that they amount to anything? And how do you know the 1st gen references are just 20th anniversary references? You're arbitrarily deciding which references mean something and which ones don't. If they don't all mean something, then they can't really be used as evidence.

Well I explained that in my previous comment. Generations 1-3 references wouldn't makes sense for a remake because we already have them. (And I know they are 20th anniversary references because SM was released on the 20th anniversary. Only alolan forms are first gen pokemon. Hints to ash about greninja in the demo. Special pikachu with Ash's hat. And the list goes on). Gens 5 and 6 wouldn't make sense because why would they skip over Gen 4? I never said that they amount to anything. I was confronting your previous argument saying "there are references to all generations so you can't tell what is being hinted at." That being because of what I just said, Gen 4 references are the ones that hold any weight, if there is anything there. Again never said there was anything there. Just saying if there is, Gen 4 would be the only logical thing that does hold weight. Stop assuming what Im saying. you're taking me out of context and blatantly lying about what I said. Again, I never said there was anything there.
And they dont all have to mean anything. Thats why they're called throwbacks. And just because there are a lot of throwbacks doesn't mean you can dismiss the rest of the references.

BW2 had the Magma/Aqua grunts in Icirrus City, the return of Dive, and the mention of the Go-Goggles and Mirage Tower in Desert Resort.

And no, it wasn't logical to assume that. 5th gen was an extremely unconventional generation, it was the first time we had a new generation on the same hardware, it was the first generation to have sequels instead of a third version, and there were lots of other changes to the series around that time. That generation really proved that we couldn't assume anything.

Exactly, We had all of those hints pointing to a RS remake. So it was only logical to assume we were going to get them in that generation. And actually it was. Towards the end of that generation I could agree with you. But just because we had two generations on the same hardware doesn't mean we could dismiss the remake.

You have no idea why they choose to put certain Pokemon in the regional dex, you're not Game Freak, you don't make the games. Again, this is an assumption. They could be excluding 4th gen Pokemon from SM because there's DP remakes coming. But they could just as easily have excluded them because they simply didn't want to put them in or wanted other Pokemon more. It's impossible to tell which is which without being involved in the development of the game.

Never said I did know why they chose those pokemon. Never said I was Gamefreak, Never said I made the games. You really need to stop assuming what I'm saying. You're attacking what you think I said instead of what I actually say which makes for weak arguments.

I was just saying that they consciously chose which pokemon to go in the games. There was a purpose. And there could easily be another reason why they chose which pokemon they did. But keeping them out because a DP remake is coming out in the near future is a likely possibility.
Think about it, there are no games that can connect with SM except via pokebank. Would kind of make sense to have a DP remake to connect with SM.

 

[Mitja]

Actually, while I was playing Pokemon Sun, I noticed some, well, references to gen 4.

I noticed references to pretty much all gens though. That's been a thing since forever, mostly because it simply is all in the same universe.

For it to be noteworthy in this thread, it would have to be so obvious and in our face that it couldn't be ignored, which it doesn't.

Like, say if Lillie went to Sinnoh in the scene at the end, that would be a start, but nope, she goes to Kanto. Similar with lots of other major references. If references are any indication about the next game, you should be arguing for a return to Kanto rather than Sinnoh ;D

 

[Hackzo23]

I noticed references to pretty much all gens though. That's been a thing since forever, mostly because it simply is all in the same universe.

For it to be noteworthy in this thread, it would have to be so obvious and in our face that it couldn't be ignored, which it doesn't.

Like, say if Lillie went to Sinnoh in the scene at the end, that would be a start, but nope, she goes to Kanto. Similar with lots of other major references. If references are any indication about the next game, you should be arguing for a return to Kanto rather than Sinnoh ;D

I completely agree. But I feel SM was a complete throwback to Gen 1. The amount of references is ridiculous. And if i'm gonna be honest I personally wouldn't mind a Gen 1 remake. And I read one of your previous comments, and I feel the same way. It would feel kinda weird to have a re-remake. But if thats the route they did go, I wouldn't be mad.

But I feel the references to Gen 4 can't be ignored. Those references aren't meant to be in your face. They're meant to be subtle. Cause Gamefreak wants to be sneaky. They don't want people knowing they're making a remake. Even so, some Gen 4 references are in your face.
-Like Type: Null/Silvally being based on Arceus.
-And said Pokemon having the ability "RKS system."
-The reports in aether paradise referencing Dialga, Palkia, and Bronzong in Gen 4.
Thats really all I could think of when it came to "in your face" Gen 4 references.

I could very well be wrong about the DP remakes. Its 50/50 which way they go I feel, a third version/sequel or the DP remakes. Game freak really has no patterns to rely on. But in the end I'll be happy with any game that they release. I wouldn't consider myself some sort of elitist Pokemon fan. Where "this has to be the next game" or "if they make a remake it has to be done this way or its no good." Of course there are things we all want in certain games, but just cause they don't include them doesn't make them bad. I just feel if the people saying these thing really do like Pokemon you would be happy with any game they put out.

When I see people saying things about a DP remake such as "change the story line, " I feel they don't know a remake entails. They're remaking a game, meaning it has to basically be the same. The storyline can't deviate that much. Take a look at ORAS, they deviate a little from the story but the main story is still their. The Game can deviate a little, You can change things around the plot, but not the plot itself. Or else its no longer a remake, its a brand new game set in an old region.

An example I can think of is look at the Netflix adaptation of Death Note. They have changed so much, that its basically no longer the same Death Note. They kept the same characters (kind of) and the plot device (the death note). But apart from that theres very little that remains from the original. And thats what would happen if the people who said "change the story" got their way. It would no longer be a remake.