Discussion Decks with Potential for After Upcoming Rotation
- Thread starter The Light Music Club
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No, Giratina is a good partner for Darkrai in the current meta.
Though I don't believe it will be a top tier deck, Raichu/bats will still be a thing. It can OHKO megas pretty quickly. It wins the prize card trades too. With the game slowing down, raichu/bats just gets better, especially with devolution spray and special energy retrieval -- Mega Ray Ray beware. And even if garb shuts down the bats, Raichu is knocking you for 160 with skyfield. Pokemon Ranger makes that deck a bit better. But ya, if a lot of Mega Ray Ray starts showing up, Raichu will see some time in the spot light.
@poke4trade Bats are rotating, if I am not mistaken.
Crobat is rotating but Zubat (PHF) and Golbat (PHF) were reprinted in Generations.
We should be getting a Crobat BREAK fairly soon, so a new (or reprinted) Crobat is surely in the works but this hasn't been confirmed yet.
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@WastedSkyPirate Without Crobat, bats are not worth the spaces in a deck (e.g. Zubat, Golbat, AZ/Super Scoop Up) that could be used for power, consistency, disruption, and much more.
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Vileplume and Garbodor will be the two most-played Pokemon with abilities that help the strategy of a deck (Hoopa, Shaymins, etc. will be for setting up as usual). Mega Ray seems pretty good in this format too.
@WastedSkyPirate the bats are from PHF not FFI.
@WastedSkyPirate the bats are from PHF not FFI.
Yes, crobat is rotating, but the rest of the line is staying. Riauchu is in the next format, because it will be slower, it will still have potential.
Why is the next format going to be slower, I didn't think we were losing any cards that made it faster in the first place.
um hello battle compressor, I hope I don't need to explain why this card being gone will slow things down noticeably, and its not just the cards but night march being gone just makes a bunch of decks that were slower now viable.
@SpoonLarry
I don't think it's a given that the format will be slower.
We will be losing the main forms of Item lock; Treveant (XY) is rotating, Seismitoad-EX is rotating and Vileplume variants will be hampered by the loss of Battle Compressor. In light of this, Item-based draw engines may find room to shine again as they're less of a risk. Remember how explosive Entei/Charizard is when it's not under Item lock?
Furthermore, I think a lot of players will look at how well Max Elixir engines have worked over the last couple of months (in decks such as Darkrai/Dragons, Waterbox and Metal) and gravitate towards this approach.
So between Item-based draw and Max Elixir, we might see a new breed of fast decks in the post-Battle Compressor world.
I don't think it's a given that the format will be slower.
We will be losing the main forms of Item lock; Treveant (XY) is rotating, Seismitoad-EX is rotating and Vileplume variants will be hampered by the loss of Battle Compressor. In light of this, Item-based draw engines may find room to shine again as they're less of a risk. Remember how explosive Entei/Charizard is when it's not under Item lock?
Furthermore, I think a lot of players will look at how well Max Elixir engines have worked over the last couple of months (in decks such as Darkrai/Dragons, Waterbox and Metal) and gravitate towards this approach.
So between Item-based draw and Max Elixir, we might see a new breed of fast decks in the post-Battle Compressor world.
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@WastedSkyPirate
I strongly disagree, the existence of item lock didn't stop people from playing item's or force them to play less of them, it did quite the opposite. In fact in most cases peoples deck lists never had to change at all in order to counter item lock because the best counters are staples that already existed in your deck like Lysandre, and for the people that had to add something like 1 Hex maniac or 1 Jirachi for toad it wasn't too big a deal to fit 2 cards if they didn't already have them in there deck anyways, I know I will still be running 1/1 of these cards in the new rotation.
The growth in popularity in Max Elixir is great but its still no were near as effective as something like battle compressor, Max Elixir at the very least does absolutely nothing, but battle compressor could always do something even if it was to just throw cards away that would otherwise be dead draws while at the same time thinning the deck out and fueling your discard with whatever you need. Max Elixir also forces you to add more basic energy to your deck to make it more consistent, battle compressor needs nothing to support it. Battle compressor was one of the most flexible cards in the game, it did multiple things to accelerate decks in many different ways all on its own.
I strongly disagree, the existence of item lock didn't stop people from playing item's or force them to play less of them, it did quite the opposite. In fact in most cases peoples deck lists never had to change at all in order to counter item lock because the best counters are staples that already existed in your deck like Lysandre, and for the people that had to add something like 1 Hex maniac or 1 Jirachi for toad it wasn't too big a deal to fit 2 cards if they didn't already have them in there deck anyways, I know I will still be running 1/1 of these cards in the new rotation.
The growth in popularity in Max Elixir is great but its still no were near as effective as something like battle compressor, Max Elixir at the very least does absolutely nothing, but battle compressor could always do something even if it was to just throw cards away that would otherwise be dead draws while at the same time thinning the deck out and fueling your discard with whatever you need. Max Elixir also forces you to add more basic energy to your deck to make it more consistent, battle compressor needs nothing to support it. Battle compressor was one of the most flexible cards in the game, it did multiple things to accelerate decks in many different ways all on its own.
@SpoonLarry
Yep, good points - maybe I was talking rubbish earlier.
Since making that post I started to reflect on the versatility of Battle Compressor. It acts as a pseudo-Computer Search when combined with VS Seeker, Puzzle of Time and Revitaliser (to name but a few) and is splashable in almost every deck. It isn't exclusively for use in Night March and Vespiquen. Battle Compressor has been the driving force behind the faster metagame of the last 2 years.
Yep, good points - maybe I was talking rubbish earlier.
Since making that post I started to reflect on the versatility of Battle Compressor. It acts as a pseudo-Computer Search when combined with VS Seeker, Puzzle of Time and Revitaliser (to name but a few) and is splashable in almost every deck. It isn't exclusively for use in Night March and Vespiquen. Battle Compressor has been the driving force behind the faster metagame of the last 2 years.
Battle Compressor allows several Trainer cards to work better.
Here is a few: Off the top of the head. I'm sure there is a bigger list.
Max Elixir
Vs Seeker
Mega Turbo
Buddy-Buddy
Puzzle of Time
Revitalizer
Trainers Mail
Lysandre
The cards have so much synergy with Battle Compressor that it really shows how battle compressor is the crux of the current format. Without BC, you can see a completely different style of play on how to get cards into winning positions. BC is such a good card because it allows the opponent to get into a winning position fast. Without BC, your winning position is heavily reliant on Acro Bike and Ultra Ball. The two cards will produce a lack of consistency compared to BC. Dropping in the discard exactly what you need, or do not need, is completely different then forcing something into the discard because you have too. When you are forced to drop in whatever, you can't really plan for the next move.
Pokemon is not about the current move, it's about lining yourself up for the next move. BC allows for the future move.
In other words, the future of Pokemon will make it harder for trainers to plan for the future.
Here is a few: Off the top of the head. I'm sure there is a bigger list.
Max Elixir
Vs Seeker
Mega Turbo
Buddy-Buddy
Puzzle of Time
Revitalizer
Trainers Mail
Lysandre
The cards have so much synergy with Battle Compressor that it really shows how battle compressor is the crux of the current format. Without BC, you can see a completely different style of play on how to get cards into winning positions. BC is such a good card because it allows the opponent to get into a winning position fast. Without BC, your winning position is heavily reliant on Acro Bike and Ultra Ball. The two cards will produce a lack of consistency compared to BC. Dropping in the discard exactly what you need, or do not need, is completely different then forcing something into the discard because you have too. When you are forced to drop in whatever, you can't really plan for the next move.
Pokemon is not about the current move, it's about lining yourself up for the next move. BC allows for the future move.
In other words, the future of Pokemon will make it harder for trainers to plan for the future.
What about Fates Collide Lucario with captivating pokepuff. That may have a chance.
Yes. I think cards like these should be explored. It will be a lot harder to do, versus flipping an item, but exploration is always good for the game.
If M Ray becomes extremely popular (like currently expected,) Garbodor and Stage 1's (Raichu, Zoroark, and Zebstrika) could be strong. Raichu is a solid attacker, Zoroark can suck up damage and counter the amount of Pokemon on your opponent's bench well, while Zebstrika is extremely good against M Ray and Yveltal. Garbodor screws over most of the meta. And this deck can work well enough against other decks decently. Definitely not a Tier 1 or 2, maybe Tier 3 or 4. Personally, I want M Gardevoir-EX (Generations print with a tech from Steam Siege,) to be decent.
Hello fellow Pokebeachbums,
I am throwing out a couple questions I hope you all will respond to:
1) Have you really started to put together deck lists for the new rotation yet?
2) If so, are there decks that you're testing that are new standard compliant that you're having success with?
My answer to this is: I am completely all in on the new rotation. I have traded away ALL of my out of rotation cards on TCGO (I was very sad to trade away my Korrina's, Focus Sashes, and Muscle Bands. I have come up with a couple of decks that I'm actually having some success with right now.
Mega Mewtwo and Garbador
Yveltal EX, non EX Yveltal, and Zoroark
I'm wondering if anybody else has been play testing decks that are completely new rotation compliant yet. I'm playing games in standard in TCGO, and it seems like every game I play my opponent is using cards that will be out of rotation in a little over a month. I even asked one guy who was playing a Mega Tyranitar deck with the 'Bats what he was going to use instead of the 'Bats in the new rotation and he said he hadn't really thought about it yet. I can't believe I'm the only person who's anticipating living in a new non night march, non item lock world, right?
I am throwing out a couple questions I hope you all will respond to:
1) Have you really started to put together deck lists for the new rotation yet?
2) If so, are there decks that you're testing that are new standard compliant that you're having success with?
My answer to this is: I am completely all in on the new rotation. I have traded away ALL of my out of rotation cards on TCGO (I was very sad to trade away my Korrina's, Focus Sashes, and Muscle Bands. I have come up with a couple of decks that I'm actually having some success with right now.
Mega Mewtwo and Garbador
Yveltal EX, non EX Yveltal, and Zoroark
I'm wondering if anybody else has been play testing decks that are completely new rotation compliant yet. I'm playing games in standard in TCGO, and it seems like every game I play my opponent is using cards that will be out of rotation in a little over a month. I even asked one guy who was playing a Mega Tyranitar deck with the 'Bats what he was going to use instead of the 'Bats in the new rotation and he said he hadn't really thought about it yet. I can't believe I'm the only person who's anticipating living in a new non night march, non item lock world, right?
I think that with the next format being more EX focused Giratina-EX/Regice might be a viable deck. This deck is greatly helped by the rotation of startling megaphone securing fury belts and hopefully swinging prize trades. Pokemon ranger should provide an answer to Jolteon-EX, and special charge eliminates the main weakness of special energy based decks.
I have been testing out a M Sceptile/Ariados list. I haven't found a consistent list yet but I have had success when I have set up. One thing I like about the deck is that it has an auto-win against Greninja and pretty much no bad match-ups. I have a list of decks that I think could be good for the new format.