Finished Werewolf XXX: Future in Stasis - GAME OVER! Town Wins! Now w/ Postgame analysis!

[simsands]

Outside of the ones I've already mentioned, that is.

 

[mordacazir]

Right now, I do not have anyone in particular who I believe to be scum, though I do think that one of the people who were arguing against Celever at the start of the day are scum, assuming he is town. But to be honest, I mostly skimmed through all of that, so I will probably have to go back and reread it when I have the time.

That was about roleplaying, so i don't think thats important.

 

[simsands]

Even so, you can still pick up valuable information.

 

[mordacazir]

Succes with reading all those many pages.

 

[bbninjas]

Can you specify how this post answered two of my points? Because like I called you out on, nothing in the post was actually related to my case on you (which is why you haven't been able to repeat anything from that post as I've pressured you further).

Okay, just noticed that two of your points wasn't even part of your argument originally, and got brought in later, meaning my post targetted your "argument" backlash.

Please explain to me in great detail how the following post is about you being scum:

Obviously I missed that, and it doesn't detract from my point.

No no, but you are ignoring other options, because you haven't brought any new ones up DESPITE apparently having one on the backburner. This is tunnelling; there are other options available to you, yet you want to plant your vote and focus all of your attention solely on me as a viable lynch. You expressed that you don't like TGK as an option, and that's fine, but that gives you no excuse to stop talking about other players. Once again, a couple people expressed that they found mordacazir scummy, but you didn't mention him before I called you out on it (and you were active between him being brought into discussion and my calling you out) which is one example of your tunnelling.

Obviously we still have different views on tunneling. I think I'm not, you think you're not, meaning we're just going to continue arguing the validity of each other's points.

No no, you didn't comment on this above. I stated that you have only been paying attention to your arguments and leads about others being scummy, which wouldn't be a bad thing if you didn't just say "I've learned that doing that is a bad thing so I am now giving myself no bias". The one post about TGK is the only post in which you have mentioned anyone else's arguments, so please clarify to me exactly how your statement from earlier is true.

The difference, to be super clear, is that calling you out for tunnelling is you focusing all of your attention on me and not other lynch options. The calling you out here is for a contradiction you made when you talked about how you give your arguments no bias over other people's, despite not reflecting that in your actions.

I'm not understanding this fully, but from what I can interpret, we're still going on about tunneling, what is tunneling and that we think each other is tunneling. I also don't recall saying that "I give my arguments no bias over other people's".

OK, that's fine. You do only have 30 posts now (boy, I sure am making you be much more active by pressuring you here than you otherwise would be!).

Is that a, uh, good thing? It's important that players share their thoughts about every lynch option as they are brought up so people can see what's popular and what isn't.

Here is the huge problem with likes: They are not timestamped, and they are incredibly easy to miss. The people who were actively participating in the thread at the time you went back and liked a load of posts earlier on in the thread will miss your likes, as they had already read the posts without your likes beneath them. This means that if you wait a little while, you can go back and like posts to say that you're contribution while simultaneously flying under the radar hard. I have absolutely no idea what posts you've liked thus far this game, and I have no way to easily check back through the thread and see (whereas with posts I can go on the postings tab on your profile).

Essentially, by liking posts instead of posting a quick one liner saying "this is a really good point and x", you are hiding really hard, trying to fly under the radar, and making it really difficult to see your activity in the game. Common scum tactics.

Firstly, it's not all about the posts. Secondly, I *like* and have been posting less is because I don't want to be the guy that goes around saying "I agree with this" every post. If it makes it easier for you, then sure, I'll do it, but it'll be annoying and cluttery.

Apparently I'm the only important person in this game. D'awww, love you too, bb <3

<3

Please raise your hand if you pay vast swathes of attention to likes. I think Camo probably does, but that's about it besides. I mean, if I'm reading the thread and notice it, I will most likely make a mental note, but I won't write it down.

I noticed that Athena and Keeper do like posts a lot as part of how they play, but that of course doesn't mean they pay attention.

A large proportion, actually. I'm low on time so I can't go through and check right now, but actually most of your posts in this game are about a paragraph in length, said paragraph being about me (from what I remember from searching through your posts last night).

Most of that proportion is probably me responding to you.

bbninjas, why are you withholding information from the town?

You're gathering reads privately while using that as an excuse to say that you're not tunnelling. We have no way of knowing that you have any reads or any new scum lead because I envision you being stubborn over it and not sharing your lead with any of us, which is so unbelievably anti-town. As shown with @Squirtle Squad's interest in this discussion and everyone else's silence (no doubt formulating reads on you and I) I think you're going to find a mob at your door pretty soon with all of these inconsistencies and contentless comments you're making in a frantic attempt at defense AND offense. Sharing your lead is also now in your best interests of self-preservation, so I would like to see it ASAP. Maybe I'll even agree with the lead and start pressuring you less. Maybe I'll use it as more ammo against you if it's a poor lead or in any way contradicting to any of the playstyle shifts you've mentioned below. Only the strength of your lead will dictate this.

This is fair, and probably the fairest thing you've said. I actually do have a nasty habit that I've developed that results in me withholding information. I think it is because that if I pressure with an underdeveloped read I am afraid I'd lose information I could've got if I waited a bit longer. Could someone tell me if this is false/necessary fear or not, because it's been playing on my mind recently.

Anyway, that was after the argument had ended -- I even linked the conclusions post in that response to you! I then royally ended it when you tried to continue it in response to what I said by literally saying "the argument has ended, stop talking about it please, I've already talked about the conclusions I've derived from it". That post kickstarted nothing.

Once again, I consider your posting further as arguing, but you apparently do not. So I think we're still saying the same thing and thus arguing opinions.

I think you're saying that discussion about the argument was part of the argument itself. This is untrue, as having the argument but not analysing it would have been a lot of wasted time.

Hmmm, that is a point to think about. However, looking back, I feel like you took it too unnecessary lengths to defend your analysis and were fairly argumentative about it, and that, after thinking about your point, is why I did and still do find you scummy.

This would be fine if many of your posts in this game also don't lack contribution.

I don't think this is a fair assessment as I do feel like I'm trying to contribute through expressing my agreements using likes and giving other opinions through the most of my posts. I'm pretty sure there is a lot of players that are actually not contributing, especially in comparison to myself.

Who, exactly? Camo? Me? I'm not proficient in pressuring either (though I must say I think I've done a mighty fine job with you here!). Who exactly are you referring to here? It seems like you're just buddying Camo, honestly.

Camo, yes. You, yes. Funnily enough, I do find you a good pressurer in general contrary to what you think of yourself, although I would say that your pressures have been much weaker and more confusing in this game.

Funny that you should say that given the huge amount of contradictions you've had in this discussion with me. You never used to have these loopholes, so I think your playstyle shift has actually been negative for you as far as that's concerned.

I personally would disagree, but that's opinions again.

Ok, so for this whole list of reads I plan on going through and talking about how none of these things are translating in your playstyle, because I fully believe they're not. The only thing you've said which you're doing and that you actually are doing is posting less, which is arguably counterproductive (subjective, I know, but bear with).

I think it is because the vast majority of things I've learnt are related to scumhunting over what I do on Day 1. I do not think that Day 1 is my strong point, thus why it is much different to what you may expect if you played with me before. I do feel like both things that I mentioned I learnt about on Day 1 is accurate.

The reason why I deleted all of the points except for those two is that you've already contradicted those two since the tl;dr here:

I thought that you can't call anyone a lurker on Day 1, and that people who appear to be lurking are in fact a townie gathering reads?

The thing that you missed is that my scum reads that I was referring to have posted a decent amount of stuff. They are active lurking, meaning they are posting but their posts are mostly fluff.

I will tell you exactly the point of this discussion point:
1) It shows how you are panicking hard under very little pressure (just little ol' me talking to you!). What you say you do and what you actually are doing are directly conflicting, which shows that you are just saying what you think could be good as a means of looking towny and deflecting attention away. If you really were town, you would consider my points more carefully and come up with more objective answers.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but your pressure is never very little. You're quite opinionated, appear absolutely certain and are very stubborn when it comes to stuff like this, which always gets me frustrated (I wouldn't say panicked). I feel like I'm considering your points as carefully as I can considering you're my main scum read.

Your answers are currently full of opinion and fluff.

I actually think that most of your evidence is full of opinion. Perhaps not fluff, but I would say is weak.

2) If I can disprove your actions being this "sparkly new town meta" you apparently have, the only other alternative is that it is your scum meta. A playstyle shift to this degree is very significant, especially for a more experience player, and I'm not willing to just drop it at "amelioration derived from a totally different meta". To me, that's not acceptable.

I actually am very much convinced that PB is like a C-grade place for WW. Experiencing another site of a higher grades makes me learn different and more effective ways of going about these games instead of using the ways that I was taught on PB. FOL was a bit of an eye-opener for me, as it showed me that much of my playstyle was/is highly scummy and my cases were quite flawed.

3) People garner all kinds of different derivations from discussions like this, and it allows everyone reading along to get better reads of you and I. You are classically difficult to read (at least for me) so I only see this as a pro-town ting.

That explains a bit, I guess.

I'm pro-RVS to the extent of "alright, let's just do it unless there's a clear alternative, since arguing about it will get us nowhere". It IS a necessary phase if we are totally uninformed, but the argument about RP makes us not totally uninformed -- in fact, it gave us more leads than RVS ever would have done in a much shorter amount of time.

Once again, I disagree that the argument about RP gave us many leads at all, except for the fact that it was distractive and thus anti-town in the first place.

Your phrasing here makes it sound like I said somewhere "I do tunnel vision a lot". I do not, and never said that.

"In regards to tunnel vision" is basically saying that I think that you have tunneled significantly in past games, so it is not necessarily out of norm for you to be tunneling me now (yes, I know you don't think you're tunneling, but I do).

I think many will agree that the evidence against you here is somewhat significant, so your second point is moot.

I do not see how that relates to my second point.

 

[bbninjas]

Why are you so heavily defending yourself when only Celever is on your back and almost no one has shown any sign of thinking of joining the wagon?

I basically answered this above, but here it is so you can find it easily.

You're quite opinionated, appear absolutely certain and are very stubborn when it comes to stuff like this, which always gets me frustrated (I wouldn't say panicked).

I have an analogy for you all: Whenever Celever pressures it feels like a you've got a whole team of stubborn rugby players making this gigantic wall that forces you to run sideways instead of straight.

 

[bbninjas]

And Celever has pressured me in a lot of games. x-----x

 

[Squirtle Squad]

To answer biebs question from before:

Biggest scum read is TGK who has apparently disappeared? Scummy posts, back-pedalling blah blah, early unecessaru claim, abilities could be townie to scummy.

Celever is a town read through all of this mess,

As for bb and celever's little tiff, I said it before but they are truly arguing over nothing. There's no real game-relevant stuff being discussed and it's probably wasting the towns time.

As for everyone else I've been too focused on bb Celever and TGK to really read anyone (everyone is innocent until proven guilty!)

So yup! TGK is my favourite lynch right now [plus it'll give him time to write the post game and tell me what egg bomb does!]

 

[Ice Espeon]

Sorry, been busy with Uni homeworks and stuff. I'll catch up when I get the chance.

 

[Luispipe8]

Can the useless rant between Celever and ninjas stop already? I stopped reading that after the 2nd wall of text and as others have said I missed nothing. :v

I already stated why I wanted TGK's lynch. Even though I don't really scumread Celever that much, I might as well push for a policy lynch against him or even ninjas if they keep that nonsense going.

 

[Scattered mind]

##ICE BEAM:Celever

Ignoring my request for explanation of his vague case on me, in addition to ignoring my question about SS (might be his scum buddy) by making a huge argument with bbninjas which is basically over nothing. Why can he talk so much about his case on bbninjas and not on my case? That's also an interesting question.

 

[Keeper of Night]

If anything of significance happened in Celv and ninja's argument, somebody give me a tl;dr, since I stopped paying attention to that a while ago.

Still, for Day 1, I would prefer a Celever lynch. TGK is a close second, but for different reasons. The major argument Celv started and his random tunneling doesn't make me feel any better about him.

 

[Camoclone]

TGK's disappearance makes him a better lynch.

 

[Scattered mind]

TGK's disappearance makes him a better lynch.

I think the question is who would give more info.

 

[Reinforce]

Day 1 Vote Count​

This vote count is valid from Post #357 to #434.

Names are in order of when they were first voted. The number after is the current vote total they have. The voters names are in the brackets and the post they made that vote in is in parenthesis. If the voter is struck out, it means they unvoted that player. The player whose name is bolded and underlined is the one with the most votes and is currently up for lynch.

double o squirtle: 0 [Camoclone (56)]
simsands: 0 [Camoclone (59)]
Camoclone: 1 [thegrovylekid (65), Celever (96), thegrovylekid (274), Cypher333 (309)]
bbninjas: 1 [Luispipe8 (66), Squirtle Squad (209), Celever (342)]
Celever: 8 [scattered mind (70), TheFlyingPidove (83), Camoclone (88), GM Draclord (106), Keeper of Night (110), bbninjas (152), double o squirtle (179), Jabberwock (207), Chaos Jackal (219), Vom (244), thegrovylekid (245), mordacazir (248), thegrovylekid (280), scattered mind (431)]
thegrovylekid: 4 [Camoclone (80), Luispipe8 (125), Chaos Jackal (135), Camoclone (260), Celever (271), Vom (276), Yeowie (282), TheFlyingPidove (286), Squirtle Squad (352)]
Keeper of Night: 0 [Celever (87)]
Cypher333: 0 [thegrovylekid (174)]
scattered mind: 0 [Celever (221)]

No vote: 7 [Ice Espeon, PMJ, Jabberwock, TheFlyingPidove, simsands, Yeowie, Athena]

There are 21 living players, so it would take 11 total votes for a majority lynch.

You must unvote the player your vote is currently placed on first in order for your future votes to be counted.

Remember that votes that do not follow the format will not be counted!

All players must PM me a coordinate to move into the Mystery Dungeon! Check back the OP for the Mystery Dungeon guidelines. Results will be processed at the end of the Day.

For those with Abilities that have Day Phase in the Usage and fits other required criteria, please prepare to submit your actions!

There are still players who haven't submitted a Coordinate or Ability PM, don't forget to do so before the end of the Day.

If I've missed sending a PM to those who should have received one from the previous Phase, please PM me for confirmation.

There is less than 48 hours left for the Day.

Day 1 will end on Wednesday, December 2nd, 2:00 PM GMT.

 

[Reinforce]

@Reinforce, what's the deal with subs? @Ice Espeon still hasn't posted yet, so I think a sub might be due for him at 72 hours.

It is still Day 1 and still 48 hours left for him to fulfill the 3-post requirement. If he does not do so at the end of the Day, he will be sent a warning PM during the Night. If he is still inactive by Day 2, defined by having no posts on the thread in the first 72 hours of that Day without an inactivity notice sent to the host, he will be replaced.

 

[mordacazir]

I'm still not in the list, again.

 

[Athena]

I'm still not in the list, again.

You're listed as voted for Celever on post #248.

 

[mordacazir]

But i'm not listed in the list with people with no votes. (Where is should be) And not in the list of people that have votes or people that have votes but unvoted.

 

[Athena]

I'm not sure I understand? You're not in the "no votes" list because you current have a vote placed (on Celever). If you would like to show up there, you would need to unvote. No one has voted for you that I can find at any point in D1, so your name wouldn't show up anywhere else in the tally aside from your placed vote on Celever.