Discussion Zoroark-GX should be banned from Expanded?!

RisingRaichuu

RisingRaichuu

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hey guys, I'm just writing this because I genuinely want to know what you guys think about this. I genuinely think there is a reasonable case right now to ban Zoroark-GX in Expanded. Right now, the Expanded format has not had a card this centralising (besides cards such as Shaymin-EX and Tapu Lele-GX) since Lysandre's Trump Card, and the combos with Sky Field and Exeggcute are so ridiculously powerful that right now it is extremely difficult to build a deck right now that doesn't revolve around Zoroark-GX. Zoroark also makes it ridiculously easy to make a deck consistent, thus discouraging clever consistent deck building, and has an ability that makes it virtually impossible to use cards such as N and Ghetsis to disrupt your opponent.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Just one more thing, though-if Gardy was good enough to spark a banning campaign prior to the Ultra Prism leaks, then why not Zoroark?
 
Its good, but I don't think it constitutes a ban. Id say ban night march, night march is probably still the BDIF of expanded. It does use zoroark, but even before it was ridiculously good. (my top choice atm for costa mesa regionals) People are already finding ways to beat zoroark, and there are many outs in expanded. I think its popularity will fall soon.
 
If winning a tournament or being being prevalent was enough to constitute a ban we wouldn't have half the viable decks we have now it's not unbeatable it can be countered with parallel and sudowoodo even a stadium bump can hurt it quite a bit. It's not like it prevents people from playing the game or turn one donks people like certain cancerous decks in expanded. Its also a nice game consistency booster zoroark helps games not end prematurely because you don't draw well enough or got hammered them N'd to 1. Is it a great card sure but great cards exist and until we see every deck in an expanded day 2 be a zoroark variant I would not suggest a ban and even then ban sky field or errata choice band to not work on gx and ex like silver bangle both of which would make zoroark not as much of a powerhouse while maintaining it's viability
 
If you ban Zoroark-GX - or for that matter, Night March - then you ought to ban most of the competitive card pool for not only Expanded but for Standard. Banning is not just to change the metagame. I don't agree with @AuraJackle 100%, but our areas of disagreement are so small I feel bad not just acting like we do. XD

I think it helps - frustrating though it is - to understand that most of the card pool is bad by design. They are filler, just there to flesh out the sets so that it wasn't just 10-30 cards that were "good to great". This is germane to the discussion because most people don't get that "their deck" is either poorly built or well built but around subpar cards that don't have a chance to compete.

Currently, only three cards are Banned in the Expanded Format, and they aren't about raw power but bending the rules until they break.

  • Archeops (NVI) was banned because Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick allows it to lock down Evolutions T1... and only a slight deviation from typical deck building strategies allows most non-Evolution-focused decks (and a few that are Evolution focused) to easily incorporate it by running 2-4 more cards (Archeops and Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick, upwards of two of each).
  • Forest of Giant Plants allows Grass Pokémon to Evolve immediately and as many times as they can during a turn, even T1. This led to both a First Turn Win (FTW) deck, as well as First Turn Lock (FTL) decks.
  • Lysandre's Trump Card was banned not just for being a staple, but because it ruined mill, it ruined decks that relied on the contents of the discard pile, it made a few particular stall decks obscenely potent and time-consuming.
It wasn't just that a lot of decks ran these cards and won, but how they were winning. Losing before you've had a turn, whether after an opponent's three-minute turn or after a three-hour match, just isn't conducive to casual or competitive play.
 
IMO, Zoroark GX should not be banned in Expanded format games. I have counters which are quite effective against Zoroark GX-based decks: Landorus EX, Wide Lens and Parallel City. Even when not playing my Fighting deck, running (and playing at key times) multiple copies of Parallel City have proven to be quite effective.
 
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Otaku said:
If you ban Zoroark-GX - or for that matter, Night March - then you ought to ban most of the competitive card pool for not only Expanded but for Standard. Banning is not just to change the metagame. I don't agree with @AuraJackle 100%, but our areas of disagreement are so small I feel bad not just acting like we do. XD

I think it helps - frustrating though it is - to understand that most of the card pool is bad by design. They are filler, just there to flesh out the sets so that it wasn't just 10-30 cards that were "good to great". This is germane to the discussion because most people don't get that "their deck" is either poorly built or well built but around subpar cards that don't have a chance to compete.

Currently, only three cards are Banned in the Expanded Format, and they aren't about raw power but bending the rules until they break.

  • Archeops (NVI) was banned because Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick allows it to lock down Evolutions T1... and only a slight deviation from typical deck building strategies allows most non-Evolution-focused decks (and a few that are Evolution focused) to easily incorporate it by running 2-4 more cards (Archeops and Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick, upwards of two of each).
  • Forest of Giant Plants allows Grass Pokémon to Evolve immediately and as many times as they can during a turn, even T1. This led to both a First Turn Win (FTW) deck, as well as First Turn Lock (FTL) decks.
  • Lysandre's Trump Card was banned not just for being a staple, but because it ruined mill, it ruined decks that relied on the contents of the discard pile, it made a few particular stall decks obscenely potent and time-consuming.
It wasn't just that a lot of decks ran these cards and won, but how they were winning. Losing before you've had a turn, whether after an opponent's three-minute turn or after a three-hour match, just isn't conducive to casual or competitive play.
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100% agree with this.

As it stands, Zoro can be countered.

Archeops's bullcrap ability could be played T1, which made it OP.
Zoro just doesn't meet the "KYS BS" guidelines.
 
Plz no, I play zoro standard and thinking of building expanded. Don't kill my dreams
 
Most disgusting card ever printed. The card can reach 210dmg in expanded and 150dmg in standard with choice band and only a DCE attached. Its a freakin supporter card for god sake. It is like having a white mage that i supposed to be a healer hit for oblivion whit his staff. Sure parallel can help but it can easily be removed considering Zoroarks draw power. Sudowudoo helps but Zoroark can still hit for 130 with a choice ban, enough to 2HKO any pokemon.

I am not saying that it should be banned but there should be some Fighting pokemon not requiring 3 energy attachment to counter it. Right now unless you are playing a fighting deck, there is almost solely Gallade with Maxie that can be used to OHKO it. And most of the time when you cannot OHKO it, it will just abuse Acerola and come back brand new on the next turn.
 
Otaku said:
If you ban Zoroark-GX - or for that matter, Night March - then you ought to ban most of the competitive card pool for not only Expanded but for Standard. Banning is not just to change the metagame. I don't agree with @AuraJackle 100%, but our areas of disagreement are so small I feel bad not just acting like we do. XD

I think it helps - frustrating though it is - to understand that most of the card pool is bad by design. They are filler, just there to flesh out the sets so that it wasn't just 10-30 cards that were "good to great". This is germane to the discussion because most people don't get that "their deck" is either poorly built or well built but around subpar cards that don't have a chance to compete.

Currently, only three cards are Banned in the Expanded Format, and they aren't about raw power but bending the rules until they break.

  • Archeops (NVI) was banned because Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick allows it to lock down Evolutions T1... and only a slight deviation from typical deck building strategies allows most non-Evolution-focused decks (and a few that are Evolution focused) to easily incorporate it by running 2-4 more cards (Archeops and Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick, upwards of two of each).
  • Forest of Giant Plants allows Grass Pokémon to Evolve immediately and as many times as they can during a turn, even T1. This led to both a First Turn Win (FTW) deck, as well as First Turn Lock (FTL) decks.
  • Lysandre's Trump Card was banned not just for being a staple, but because it ruined mill, it ruined decks that relied on the contents of the discard pile, it made a few particular stall decks obscenely potent and time-consuming.
It wasn't just that a lot of decks ran these cards and won, but how they were winning. Losing before you've had a turn, whether after an opponent's three-minute turn or after a three-hour match, just isn't conducive to casual or competitive play.
Click to expand...

While I agree with this, I still think Archeops was the wrong ban. Both Maxie and Archie should have been banned since they are hard to balance across three types.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
While I agree with this, I still think Archeops was the wrong ban. Both Maxie and Archie should have been banned since they are hard to balance across three types.
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I agree with you. If Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick hadn't been printed Archeops would have been good, but not broken. Before Primal Clash Archeops saw little play here and there but nothing game breaking because as a fossil pokemon it was hard to set up.
 
GamePhoenix said:
I agree with you. If Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick hadn't been printed Archeops would have been good, but not broken. Before Primal Clash Archeops saw little play here and there but nothing game breaking because as a fossil pokemon it was hard to set up.
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But Archie's Ball Trick opened up options and made more cards viable. Archeops is the card shutting down decks, not Archie's
 
CrownAxe said:
But Archie's Ball Trick opened up options and made more cards viable. Archeops is the card shutting down decks, not Archie's
Click to expand...

...but Archie's Hidden Ball Trick is going to be an albatross around the designers' necks for as long as it remains in the Expanded Format. The longer the Expanded Format exists (unless they start rotating sets from it), the more these kinds of decisions will have to happen. Forest of Giant Plants was a great benefit to Grass decks, but it not only got Shiftry (NXD) banned, I personally think it breaks Vileplume (AOR).

As such, I need to agree with @crystal_pidgeot and @GamePhoenix, and risk really irking people by adding that Archie's Ace in the Hole may one day need to go as well. This is why I have those crazy rants stressing that speeding up Evolution is a bad idea; it keeps being tried and the best that seems to happen is a mediocre place a la the post-erratum Rare Candy. Pokémon, maybe even card specific, Evolution acceleration could be okay. For example, "Ascension" attacks haven't caused too many issues; amplified existing, perhaps, but not overly caused problems.
 
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