Zekeel against Darkrai
- Thread starter tc19930815
- Start date
Why do people run fighting energy over Prism? Is that just because of lost remover? Surely that would make the deck more consistent regardless of the threat of lost remover...
i can see why people would run gigas, but then think abut how many people are running terrakion to counter the meta, then gigas is pretty much dead against it. I mean i would try it out, but i would take into consideration how many people will be running terrakion, i know that if you run into terrakion you dont have to use gigas, but for me i just dont see it as like one of the first things i would test. But try it out you never know. =)
i can see what your saying with fighting being less consistent, but yes the threat of lost remover and other sp energy removers is great, plus you can recover the fighting if need be, and you can't with sp energy.
Ka$h Money said:
i can see what your saying with fighting being less consistent, but yes the threat of lost remover and other sp energy removers is great, plus you can recover the fighting if need be, and you can't with sp energy.
DarknessGrace said:
I get what you mean but surely you should just reserve the 3 Prism energy for the 2x Terrakion you have when facing Darkrai?
I played against a darkrai deck a few days ago and I used tornadus ex and hammered from the first turn and then max potioning. Then I backed it up with a zekrom and a raikou.
So 1 Terrakion 2 Fighting 1 Energy Search isn't good enough for Terrakion tech? Thats what I run, but I also love Zekrom EX in my build and I don't think dropping all 4 of my DCE is going to fly. Isn't 5 Fighting a little overkill?
You can't consistently run DCE and Fighting. Meaning you can't run Zekrom EX AND Terrakion. Tornadus EX without DCE is iffy but it's not bad, but Zekrom EX can't run without DCE. You should either go all out DCE + Attackers that use DCE or a heavy Terrakion line, like 2 Terrakion and 5/6 Fighting energy.
Against Darkrai, you have a one turn window where using Terrakion will put you at a big advantage, and if you miss it then it's not nearly as effective. Using such a low line of Terrakion means that you're almost assuring that you'll never have Terrakon+Fighting exactly when you need it.
Against Darkrai, you have a one turn window where using Terrakion will put you at a big advantage, and if you miss it then it's not nearly as effective. Using such a low line of Terrakion means that you're almost assuring that you'll never have Terrakon+Fighting exactly when you need it.
Okay, thats a bummer. I think I need Terrakion, but I love my Zekrom EX because it is so usefull in literally every other matchup other than Darkrai. I have beaten Darkrai before without Terrakion, but it really isn't so easy.
Cinema said:
Gross. This is why people think Terrakion ruins consistancy, because they assume you need 5 Fighting energies with it.
2 Fighting 1 Energy Search is plenty. Whether or not you run 1 or 2 Terrakions is up to you, because prizing it hurts. However, you should manage to pull your 1 out of prizes eventually, it's not like Terrakion is your SOLE method of taking prizes against this deck. I run 1 Terrakion 2 Fighting 1 Energy Search and I fit DCE into my deck just fine. Running Zekrom EX and Terrakion should be no problem whatsoever. You should run enough Ultra Ball/Collector/Dual Ball/Juniper/Pont/N/Junk Arm/Anything Else to be able to pull 2 cards out of your deck. It only takes 1 turn to power it up thanks to Eel, so running it consistantly isn't a problem.
I agree that running 2 Fighting 1 Energy Search might be a little low, because out of a 60 card deck you only have 5% chance of hitting the Energy early enough. Getting Terrakion isn't the problem, its the Energy that you need to worry about. But I really do see no reason why DCE and Terrakion is such a big deal.
^DCE and Terrakion is not a big deal.
And to answer the question, 3/60 is a 5% chance yes. However that's not counting your prize cards, nor Junk Arms which can pick Energy Search Out of your discard Pile. Between your Junipers, PONTS, Sage's, N's, and Smeargles, you should have enough drawpower to hit one of them eventually. It's 3 cards. last time I checked 3 was a consistant number. People run 3 Catchers in a deck, yet people don't say we'll have problems pulling one of those out of our decks when we need them.
And to answer the question, 3/60 is a 5% chance yes. However that's not counting your prize cards, nor Junk Arms which can pick Energy Search Out of your discard Pile. Between your Junipers, PONTS, Sage's, N's, and Smeargles, you should have enough drawpower to hit one of them eventually. It's 3 cards. last time I checked 3 was a consistant number. People run 3 Catchers in a deck, yet people don't say we'll have problems pulling one of those out of our decks when we need them.
You can't compare Catcher with Energy. Right now we have Junk Arm which lets you use Catcher a potential seven times.
I myself haven't tried only one Terrakion in the deck. I think you need the hefty two just because of how solid it is against the Mirror and Darkrai. I don't want to have issues prizing the big bull itself. Because of that, I think four Fighting is a solid number and any additional I haven't liked at all. I haven't tried Energy Search, but I haven't found instances where I wish I had it. I will say that running three different Energy lineups is pretty costly just to the deck's consistency overall. I can definitely see variants without Terrakion getting it done against Darkrai, but you can't say that the build does not have its good points.
dmaster out.
I myself haven't tried only one Terrakion in the deck. I think you need the hefty two just because of how solid it is against the Mirror and Darkrai. I don't want to have issues prizing the big bull itself. Because of that, I think four Fighting is a solid number and any additional I haven't liked at all. I haven't tried Energy Search, but I haven't found instances where I wish I had it. I will say that running three different Energy lineups is pretty costly just to the deck's consistency overall. I can definitely see variants without Terrakion getting it done against Darkrai, but you can't say that the build does not have its good points.
dmaster out.
I think dmaster really hit the nail on the head. 2 Terrakion/4 Fighting is the best split. Other variations might work, but I sure wouldn't run them. 2/4 is ideal for hitting Revenges and Land Crushes exactly when they need to be hit. In this super-fast and aggressive format, missing it for one turn usually costs the game. It's not worth trying to cut down lower than that just to fit in a couple "cooler" tech cards.
I have playtested several times against Darkrai and kind of verified the need of Terrakion in Zekeel to withstand Darkrai.
But then, if you are facing off a mirror or even a well-built CMT, you would most probably lose due to the lack of consistency.
(I played 2 Terrakion, 1 Energy Search, 4 Fighting, 3 DCE, 6 Lightning)
But then, if you are facing off a mirror or even a well-built CMT, you would most probably lose due to the lack of consistency.
(I played 2 Terrakion, 1 Energy Search, 4 Fighting, 3 DCE, 6 Lightning)
Terrakion hasn't hurt consistency for me at all. Just run it over Tornadus/Tornadus-EX/Zekrom-EX. That makes it a 0-card investment and it allows you to significantly reduce your DCE count as well. It's like a 0-2 card investment depending on how much you focus on it and other attackers in the deck.