Discussion Why the heck does hyper rare Charizard GX cost $130?

Lord Goomy

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Seriously. It’s not like anyone uses the card for the current metagame, nor is it any rarer than any other hyper rare in Burning Shadows.
Is it ONLY because Charizard is “cool?” ‘Cause in my book, that’s not a viable reason to make something $130.
 
Seriously. It’s not like anyone uses the card for the current metagame, nor is it any rarer than any other hyper rare in Burning Shadows.
Is it ONLY because Charizard is “cool?” ‘Cause in my book, that’s not a viable reason to make something 30.

Five words:

1. World's

2. Second

3. Most

4. Popular

5. Species!

^ What pokemon trumped Charizard in that word?

Clue: Pika!
 
Charizrd has always been (and will still be for the foreseeable future) a fan-favorite among all ages. Thus, any and all Charizard cards tend to be at least decently expensive due tot he way the market works (demand and supply). Charizard collectors won't let their Charizard cards go, and non-Charizard collectors will mostly end up selling their Charizard card to a collector if it doesn't have competitive value. Eventually, most of the supply is held by happy collectors, and over time since there is no more supply but there are still collectors the prize goes up.
 
The weird thing is... I don't remember Charizard being a fan favorite until after the TCG's part in the fad phase. Yes, yes, totally anecdotal, but in my area it seemedlike everyone really liked Blastoise or Venusaur more and just kind of liked Charizard...

...until his Base Set card started selling for big bucks and then we all had dollar signs in our eyes while even thinking about our non-dragon fire drake. ;)
 
Low supply, high demand.

Sure, it's just as rare as any other hyper rare, but there's a thing called the Charizard Tax. Being among the most popular Pokemon of all time, Charizard cards hold a special demand for collectors. It's why First Edition Charizard is the most popular collectible in the game, and why many other Zards hold at least some value. Demand. People want their Charizards, whether the demand stems from wanting it because it's a cool Pokemon, that it's a coveted item in the TCG, or just being a pure completionist. (I'm all three on that camp personally.)

Yes, Base Charizard is as rare as Base Hitmonchan, but more people would want the Charizard. Same goes for the hyper rare. Think of it this way:

There are 22 Secret Rares (RRs/Items/Energies) in Burning Shadows, at around a 1/2 boxes (or 1/72 packs, assuming rates haven't changed in a while). If my math is correct, there's around a 0.06313131313% chance of getting a particular Secret Rare you'd want. Not easy. Because of the demand for a Charizard, and the fact that it's that hard to pull, drives the price up.

People want their Charizards. And I know a lot of the fans who dislike any popular Pokemon for the sole reason that it's popular (I've seen this too many times and it's become a pet peeve of mine over time, oof.) can argue against this all day long, but that's just the truth.

And, as I said before, just look at scarcity. You look at sets like Skyridge, a set that was barely even printed. Holos run for a really pretty penny, and the Crystal cards even moreso. The EX era (Ruby & Sapphire-Power Keepers, for anyone confused) is also another huge one. If you look at sets like Team Rocket Returns, another set that was barely printed, ultra rares can fetch up to 100 dollars for a few of them. The same logic applies here, although recent sets have been printed into oblivion, HR Charizard is still scarce enough to warrant an upward price.

The Pokemon TCG to collectors is a lot different compared to just a casual fan or a competitive player. It's seemingly the least talked-about aspect of the hobby, which honestly saddens me. The way prices work is a whole different thing compared to the way a card is worth to a competitive player. Now, do I want these cards to burn a hole in my wallet? Nope. But I understand the reasoning behind their prices.
 
Look at the Charizard from Evolutions which was a spiritual reprint of the Base Set Charizard. Card is rotated and wasn't very good but is sitting around 10-15 bucks.
 
Yes, Base Charizard is as rare as Base Hitmonchan, but more people would want the Charizard. Same goes for the hyper rare.

Hitmonchan (Base Set) was actually available in a pre-constructed Theme Deck (Black Out). I know, that's how I got four of them back in the day; I saw a Theme Deck display and bought all their copies of the deck. XD
 
I think part of what started the trend of Charizard's very high price tag is just how much raw damage they dealt along with the ability to make all of your energy fire on it letting you use Double Colorless for the same result. Not much has changed as the EX/GX like to just have a flat three hundred damage attack on them as well. I wouldn't be surprised if later the normal art GX starts to climb up too.
 
Hitmonchan (Base Set) was actually available in a pre-constructed Theme Deck (Black Out). I know, that's how I got four of them back in the day; I saw a Theme Deck display and bought all their copies of the deck. XD
Right! Forgot about that, the theme decks always seem to escape my mind for some reason. Hitmonchan was the first other holo from Base my mind went to, so I just used that one without recalling its inclusion.
 
Right! Forgot about that, the theme decks always seem to escape my mind for some reason. Hitmonchan was the first other holo from Base my mind went to, so I just used that one without recalling its inclusion.

Right. The rest of what you said, either I agreed with or didn't care to challenge... and that in and of itself isn't a challenge. Day before Christmas; I've got other stuff to worry about. XD

I think part of what started the trend of Charizard's very high price tag is just how much raw damage they dealt along with the ability to make all of your energy fire on it letting you use Double Colorless for the same result. Not much has changed as the EX/GX like to just have a flat three hundred damage attack on them as well. I wouldn't be surprised if later the normal art GX starts to climb up too.

Yeah, this is where the psychographic profiles WotC developed to help understand MtG helps. Charizard is a very Timmy card. I'll just copy, paste, and tweak an entry from the MTG Wiki... and put it behind Spoiler tags because you don't need to re-read it if you already know it.

Timmy/Tammy

A Timmy/Tammy is characterized by their tendency to use big creatures and cast big spells. Large, exciting plays motivate them. Timmies are most associated with playing for fun, and all kinds of huge creatures, fantastic spells, and mythical enchantments. They are the most social archetype, enjoying the interaction that Magic provides. A stereotypical Timmy/Tammy is usually a younger player with a simple (yet fun for them) deck. They do not care whether they win or lose, but want to have fun playing really big effects.

Mark Rosewater wrote of Timmy:
“ Timmy wants to experience something. Timmy plays Magic because he enjoys the feeling he gets when he plays. What that feeling is will vary from Timmy to Timmy, but what all Timmies have in common is that they enjoy the visceral experience of playing. ”

The 'Timmy/Tammy' profile was represented in the Unglued card Timmy, Power Gamer.

Some subgroups of Timmies are:

  • Power Gamers love playing big creatures and big spells as they smash their way to victory. They equate power with fun.
  • Social Gamers thrive on the social aspect of the game. Their only interest is interacting with their friends. Thus, they tend towards multiplayer variants.
  • Diversity Gamers experience all the different deck types and formats. They always try something different because they enjoy constant exploration.
  • Adrenaline Gamers enjoy the variance in the game, playing cards and decks that don't have a predictable outcome. They love cards that work differently each time you play them like coin flip cards.
  • Griefers enjoy making other players to not have fun.

Timmies see Johnnies as too focused on certain combos and Spikes too bent on winning.

Johnny/Jenny

A Johnny/Jenny is characterized by their tendency to build complex and creative decks. Johnny/Jenny is most commonly known as a 'combo player', and they sometimes choose for elaborate but inefficient win conditions. They like to find interesting combinations of cards that can win the game or give them an advantage. Johnny may be a player who seeks niche cards, or cards widely reputed as bad, and tries to "break" them, exploiting them in ways to give abnormal power and win the game. Johnnies are happiest when their decks work and they win their way; for them, one in many leaves them happy, if that win is on their own terms.

Mark Rosewater wrote of Johnny:
“ Johnny is the creative gamer to whom Magic is a form of self-expression. Johnny likes to win, but he wants to win with style. It’s very important to Johnny that he win on his own terms. As such, it's important to Johnny that he's using his own deck. Playing Magic is an opportunity for Johnny to show off his creativity. ”

The 'Johnny/Jenny' profile was represented in the Unhinged card Johnny, Combo Player.

Some subgroups of Johnnies are:

  • Combo Players are fascinated by the interaction of the cards. They find combinations that no one else has. They want to build decks that will impress all who see them.
  • Offbeat Designers are driven by ideas. They are proving their ability to find answers for any challenge. What if the deck only had lands? What if the deck never played permanents?
  • Deck Artists use deck building as a form of self-expressive art. They build decks that do things like embody the elf culture, for example.
  • Uber Johnny thrives on doing the undoable. He proves that what conventional wisdom says can't be done, can be done. To him, no card is too bad to find a use for like One with Nothing.

Johnnies see Timmies as simplistic and Spikes as uptight and unoriginal.

Spike

A Spike (of any gender) is characterized by their competitive nature and they play primarily to prove how good they are. Spike will find the best deck in the format, even if it requires copying another innovator's work (see netdecking). Spike's cards are effective, designed to secure a fast and effective victory over opponents. If Spike plays several games and loses only one, but feels they should have won it, they may be malcontent

Mark Rosewater wrote of Spike:
“ Spike is the competitive player. Spike plays to win. Spike enjoys winning. To accomplish this, Spike will play whatever the best deck is. Spike will copy decks off the Internet. Spike will borrow other players' decks. To Spike, the thrill of Magic is the adrenaline rush of competition. Spike enjoys the stimulation of outplaying the opponent and the glory of victory. ”

The 'Spike' profile was represented in the Unstable card Spike, Tournament Grinder.

Some subgroups of Spikes are:

  • Innovators pride themselves on their ability to judge new cards. Their goal is to find the next broken thing. Their dream is to spawn the next dominant deck.
  • Tuners try to dominate by fine-tuning the known decks. Known as min/maxers in the role-playing side of gaming.
  • Analysts plan on winning not by having the best deck in a vacuum, but by having the deck best suited for any particular environment. They are very focused on the sideboard.
  • Nuts & Bolts focuses their energies in perfecting their own gameplay. They try to understand their own internal flaws and work to improve them. They tend to spend more of their time on Limited formats.

Spikes see Timmies as rookies and Johnnies as eccentric and annoying.

Also relevant are the Aesthetic Profiles, as certain Charizard cards are going to be appeal to either of these, maybe even both at the same time.

Mel (Melvin/Melanie)

Mel is the "mechanic player", someone focused on the craft of Design & Development. A Mel is characterized for appreciating cards with delicate and interesting interactions, as well as strong mechanics. A Mel appreciates that there are many different elements that have to come together to make a Magic card function structurally, from the color pie to the mana system to the rules to the templating to the mechanical needs of the set.

Examples of cards that a Mel might like include Firemaw Kavu and Stuffy Doll from the Time Spiral expansion and Hangarback Walker from Magic Origins.

Vorthos

Vorthos is the "flavor player", someone focused on the craft of Creative. A Vorthos is characterized by appreciating cards with flavor and creative consistency. The name, the illustration, the card concept, the subtype (if the card has one), the flavor text—each of these helps paint a picture of what exactly the card is representing. A Vorthos evaluates cards based on these components both in isolation and in conjunction. Vorthos was first envisioned by Matt Cavotta.

Examples of cards that a Vorthos might like include Rescue from the Underworld from Theros, Deicide from Journey into Nyx, Crux of Fate from Fate Reforged.

In 2015 Ant Tessitore wrote an article titled "Vorthos 2015" in which he provided an updated view of how one could consider themselves a Vorthos. In the article Ant divided Vorthoses into five categories based on what the individual appreciates about Magic: the Gathering:

  • The Gamer appreciates top down resonance and in-game flavor.
  • The Artist appreciates all visual aspects of Magic.
  • The Writer appreciates all written copy for Magic.
  • The Oracle appreciates real world to fantasy world blending via things like cosplay.
  • The Dreamer appreciates anything contributing to the lore of Magic
 
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