Discussion Which Toad Variant is Best for BCR-ROS?

Elbow

Elbow

Klinklang V Plz
Member
I think that its already been conlcuded that Toad beats Rayquaza decks, but what variant do you think is best for the upcoming format of BCR-ROS?
  • Toad Garb
  • Toad Puff
  • Toad Bats
  • Toad Mega Manectric
  • Toad Primal Kyogre
  • Toad Malamar
  • Toad Aromatisse
  • Quad Toad
  • Toad VG Mewtwo
  • Toad Rogue
  • Etc.
 
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From what I've done play testing, toad puff has been the best since its more disruptive and slows down big ray ray pretty heavily. I think slowing ray ray down as much as possible really helps the matchup.
 
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yahmobethere1 said:
From what I've done play testing, toad puff has been the best since its more disruptive and slows down big ray ray pretty heavily. I think slowing ray ray down as much as possible really helps the matchup.
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Toadpuff can be a little slow getting going though. For Ray I would have thought Toad - Garbador with Shaymin and Wally would be the choice. Whether that's the right choice for other matchups, I don't know. The knock on Toad-Garbador has always been that it is the worst of the main variants in the mirror, and I don't see how that has changed.

Personally, I am planning to start trying a Toad-Manectric version. But not so much of a disruption based one (i.e not pure lasers and hammers). More about setting up Manectrics. Might throw in Magnezone EX and Wide Angle Lens because I want to take out two eggs or two Altaria in a single shot. I don't know how competitive it will be.. but it will be fun.
 
Something to note is that toad/garbo counters the ever-popular mirror match quite well. Also, taking a different route, I saw a forum in Deck Garage about toad/greninja, and it seemed pretty good. I tested it myself, and while it may not be the BEST choice of toad variant, I think it deserves a spot on the list (of variants).
But the point is: puff is good, garbo is better for mirror.
 
Elbow said:
I think that its already been conlcuded that Toad beats Rayquaza decks, but what variant do you think is best for the upcoming format of BCR-ROS?
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It might seem boring, but overall I'd say the Garbotoxin backed Seismitoad-EX deck is best. Few decks are good at coping with a lost of both Items and Abilities, plus I would think it has room for at least one sweeper, something to come up and just wreck whatever it needs to for the final Prize(s), as well as for a fallback option is the double-lock for some reason isn't sufficient.
 
Toad-Shaymin is going to be a contender.

The play-style is similar to Toad-Slurpuff but it opens a lot more quickly- the deck will normally draw around 20-30 cards in the first turn. This means that the player rarely whiffs the DCE and can usually find the jamming nets and head ringers. Without any evolutions it is very consistent and doesn't suffer from the occasional slow starts that Toad-Slurpuff has. Because it incorporates Super Scoop-Up, to re-use Shaymin, it can also keep Toads alive and preserve the DCE.

It definitely has vulnerabilities, though. Other than grass, the biggest issue is Aegislash EX. I am not sure how it does in other Toad matchups, but it seems like it does quite well just because of the sheer speed. It certainly seems to blow Toadpuff out of the water.
 
After this regionals weekend, I saw many Toad Shaymin, Toad Aromatisse Toolbox, Toad Puff, and a few Toad Malamar/Dark decks.
I'm thinking that those 3 are going to be the main 3 Toad decks for BCR-ROS. Agree or disagree?
 
Elbow said:
After this regionals weekend, I saw many Toad Shaymin, Toad Aromatisse Toolbox, Toad Puff, and a few Toad Malamar/Dark decks.
I'm thinking that those 3 are going to be the main 3 Toad decks for BCR-ROS. Agree or disagree?
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The caveat is that the more people depend on Abilities (including other Seismitoad-EX decks), the better the Garbotoxin variant becomes.
 
The Toad/ Shaymin EX deck will probably be the best variant at least in my opinion. It can go through the deck so quick and doesn't need to evolve into Slurpuff/ Garbador/ or Crawdaunt making it even more likely to get the turn 1 quaking punch. Ultimately making garbador a useless card in the mirror matchup. I'm not sure about the toolbox Toad decks or the Toad/Malamar because I haven't really played either deck or played against either deck.
 
Otaku said:
The caveat is that the more people depend on Abilities (including other Seismitoad-EX decks), the better the Garbotoxin variant becomes.
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The problem with the Garbodor Variant is that Seismitoad has no additional damage output. Sure, it can wreck with just Lasers, Hammers, and Head Ringers, but without consistency (Slurpuff/Shaymin) or extra damage (Crobat/Toolbox) the damage won't stack up in our current format, or at least get to a top seed at tables. Especially when Primal Groudon is as big as it is right now, where Toad can only 5HKO it with Quaking punch, or 3HKO it with 2 Quaking punches and 1 Grenade Hammer (all with muscle band).
 
Elbow said:
The problem with the Garbodor Variant is that Seismitoad has no additional damage output. Sure, it can wreck with just Lasers, Hammers, and Head Ringers, but without consistency (Slurpuff/Shaymin) or extra damage (Crobat/Toolbox) the damage won't stack up in our current format, or at least get to a top seed at tables. Especially when Primal Groudon is as big as it is right now, where Toad can only 5HKO it with Quaking punch, or 3HKO it with 2 Quaking punches and 1 Grenade Hammer (all with muscle band).
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...which is why this version includes another attacker; you lock your opponent down until you can push for the win.
 
Otaku said:
...which is why this version includes another attacker; you lock your opponent down until you can push for the win.
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Sure, but barely any did well this weekend despite the amount of ability pokemon being played (Shaymin EX, VirGen, Slurpuff, Aromatisse, etc.).
Garb is surely good, but it is not to the tier of other informat decks. It can be a wasted space in some match-ups, and is terrible in the mirror. With the addition of another attacker makes the deck clunkier and less consistent. IMHO, I'd go with either Garb or some other attacker because garb takes up 6/7 spots and the other attackers must take at least 6/12 spaces in a deck. These are the reasons why I don't think it could stand its ground for the upcoming Nats/Worlds.
 
Jason K. just won Madison regionals today with Seismitoed / Shaymin and a lone Absol. You have to accept sometimes you will have an unfavorable match-up. Focusing on consistency I think is the key since that's what Jason did.
 
Now that Lysandre's Trump card is banned, Toad decks must again adapt to how Rayquaza will fall off the map and metagame against each other, again.

I would think the Garbotoxin Toad deck with Yveltal might be best in this case. It has all the tricks and trumps of other Toad decks but also retains just a rediculous KO potential with Yveltal.
 
King Arceus said:
Jason K. just won Madison regionals today with Seismitoed / Shaymin and a lone Absol. You have to accept sometimes you will have an unfavorable match-up. Focusing on consistency I think is the key since that's what Jason did.
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Not to undermine Jason's skill, but even he admitted that his win was largely luck based, which is what the Hammer/SSU/Laser recycling can do to otherwise one-sided matchups. I'm anxious to see how Toad will be incorporated in the future, now longer that it can't be its own deck (at least not in the same way).

Personally, I'm a little sad that Trump was banned. Toad was my go-to deck since I started doing well with it. It has the potential to beat anything, even Virgen if you play Hammers, and the SSU/Trump spamming was just plain broken to put it lightly. There's no greater feeling than picking up a Toad with 160 damage on it, promoting a Slurpuff, using Tasting for 2, putting everything back on Toad, and Quaking Punching with a fresh new Toad.
 
Shax said:
Now that Lysandre's Trump card is banned, Toad decks must again adapt to how Rayquaza will fall off the map and metagame against each other, again.
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I don't think colorless Rayquaza will "fall off the map". The speed version already had a few issues, like not having good counters to safeguard, and now it is a lot riskier to take that huge first few turns. So we can expect people to step up the efforts to find other builds. A version with Bronzong is one possibility, I am sure there are many to come. But with the great, great support, the power of delta evolution, the very flexible and comparatively low energy cost, the splashability and the sheer power of the attack I think we can be pretty sure that people are going to make great decks out of it somehow. (And technically, it won't "fall off the map" as it's only been played in a couple of tournaments, so it has barely been on the map.)

Toad will adapt. I think Toadpuff will become much less popular and Toad-Shaymin might not take off to become BDIF like it seemed it would. One scenario is these pure Toad decks won't be so powerful any more, it will go back to how it was in the Autumn cities, when Quad Toad was one of 4-5 decks below the top three, but will remain very popular as a medium-sized line in other decks, like in Yveltal. Another scenario is that people will make it work in decks that aren't based on infinite lasers and hammers- like Toad-Bats and Toad-Craudaunt.
 
To be honest, the first deck you mentioned as a 'newer' Rayquaza deck in Bronzong happens to be the very same deck I already have sleeved up here at the house. Rayquaza-Bronzong. ( It's all I had to put together for the newer set release at the moment, now it looks like I'm a genius)

Rayquaza was everywhere on PTCGO, it was a well known and respected archtype to watch for in tours' hosted on there. Sometimes with Virizon, sometimes with just Shaymin and Virbanks with Laser-Hammer, sometimes with Virizon-Raichu-Rayquaza. So thats 3 different variations of 1 deck that will be deconstructed because of Lysandre's Trump card.

One day after I finished my Rayquaza deck, I find out it is going to be deconstructed because of a ban on the most important card in the deck. (You literally want to see Trump card and stall out KO's/Hammer and then KO while fishing for a VS Seeker in the prizes) So the most important card in the deck, (arguably the most powerful) is now sitting with Sneasal.

In any case, Toads and Night March will rise again on PTCGO and in Local Leagues everywhere.
 
Interestingly enough, I played in an LC yesterday and decided to run my revised Toad deck. This deck featured Seismitoad EX, Manectric EX, and Garbodor . One other tech Poké was also used to address certain match-ups.

Unfortunately, I needed to leave early prior to the end of the tournament, but I had great success with this particular variant although I lost my first game to a player running Donphan (lol - surprise, surprise) due to some poor drawing.

After this game, I encountered 2 ToadPuffs (which were beaten) and a Klingklang deck (went to the "wire," but I won that matchup too). Also, playing in the 4th round were 2 undefeated players; one ran ToadPuff and the other ran Rayquaza-Bronzong. I definitely had advantages in either of these matchups.

I do not run M Manectric EX at all any longer (in any of my decks), for I've found that I prefer to use Manectric EX's 2 attacks much more so than Turbo Bolt. IMO, this particular Toad variant is quite strong and favorably positions a player in many different match-ups.
 
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