Ruling When does Shadow Stitching activate?

[Rooie]

If Greninja (BKP40) uses Shadow Stitching on Celebi (XYPR93) that has 10 HP remaining, will Shadow Stitching prevent Leap Through Time? I'm pretty sure attack damage and knockouts are checked before any other effects of attacks, so logically Leap Through Time would still work, but I'd like to be 100% sure.

 

[akealon]

Attacks are resolved in the following order:
1) announce attack; 2) if necessary, choose target; 3) if necessary, perform attack requirements (coin flip, discard energy); 4) if necessary, apply special effects; 5) check for Confusion; 6) perform attack, doing damage first, then applying any other effects.
Figuring our the amount of damage works as follows:
1) base damage (number written next to attack); 2) effects on Attacking Pokemon; 3) Weakness effect; 4) Resistance effect; 5) effects of attached Trainer or Energy cards; 6) effects on Defending Pokemon (Powers, Bodies, or last attacks); 7) place 1 damage counter per 10 damage; 8) do any other effects of attack to Defending Pokemon (discarding Energy, switching to Bench).
ONLY NOW do you check to see if any Pokemon are Knocked Out, by having more damage counters than their HP.

Based on that, effects on the Defending Pokemon will resolve before other effects of the attack of the Attacking Pokemon, meaning the check for Ability of the Celebi will occur before the trigger of the Shadow Stitching effect. Hope that helps.

 

[TheGuardian118]

Based on that, effects on the Defending Pokemon will resolve before other effects of the attack of the Attacking Pokemon, meaning the check for Ability of the Celebi will occur before the trigger of the Shadow Stitching effect. Hope that helps.

Celebi's ability has KO as a trigger. The SS effect placed on the defending Pokémon would be turned on before the KO occurs based on your flowchart. Since the effect is on when the KO occurs, no ability can be used.

 

[Otaku]

Hmm... have you considered asking about a ruling through more formal means? This one seems rather tricky.

Looking at the process as presented on page 20 of the instruction booklet released alongside Sun & Moon, Step F of attacking is:

Apply any effects that happen before damage, then place damage counters, and then do all other effects.
​

So what about the write-up on page 14? Step C reads:

PUT damage counters on your opponent’s Active Pokémon.

When you attack, put 1 damage counter on your opponent’s Active Pokémon for
each 10 damage your Pokémon’s attack does (written to the right of the attack
name). In the example above, Litten’s Bite attack does 10 damage. Then, Rowlet’s
Weakness of ×2 to [R] Pokémon makes that 10 ×2 = 20 damage. So put 2 damage
counters on Rowlet. If an attack says to do something else, be sure to do that, too!

Your attack is complete, so check to see if any Pokémon were Knocked Out by the
attack.​

Emphasis added; you do the damage, you make sure any effects that are also supposed to happen, happen, and then your attack is done and you check for KO's. So I'm thinking @TheGuardian118 has it right.

 

[Rooie]

Sounds about right. Thanks!

 

[MaeglinC]

When I was at NAIC, I played against a Greninja player that used Shadow Stitching on my Raikou with Shining Body ability. Difference in whether Shining Body applied would mean knockout or not. Asked Judge over, and they ruled that Shadow Stitching effect applied first, so Shining Body was deactivated, thus Raikou was knocked out.

 

[My Little Keldeo]

Celebi and Raikou's Abilities occur at different points of the attack step, so I will address them separately.

Celebi's Ability activates when it is Knocked Out. The game does not check for Knock Outs until after an attack and any effects relating to it have been resolved completely. in this case, Shadow Stitching's effect will have been activated, and Leap Through Time will not activate.

Damage is always the first thing applied during the attack step, which is when Raikou's Shining Body comes into play. At this point, Shadow Stitching's effect of turning off the opponent's Abilities has not yet activated, meaning Shining Body would reduce the damage taken by 20. Assuming there was no other effect that would inactivate Shining Body (such as Silent Lab), this judge ruled incorrectly. Raikou should not have been Knocked Out in this case.