What Do You Think About Vegetarianism / Veganism?

RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism?

Elite Stride said:
There is a vegan cafe down the street from work that I went to a few times this week for lunch. The food is great, surprisingly, but it's extremely expensive which really sucks! Not as good as say, a real burger or something, but I certainly feel better about myself after eating that instead, lol. I think I'll be a regular at this place for lunch more often. They also have delicious fruit smoothies.
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That's the thing about veganism; it can get expensive. Oh, and people wonder why others are so obese, while burgers are $0.99 and salads are, like, $4.00.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism?

I've flip-flopped between eating meat and eating only veggies/dairy recently. Most often I condition myself to eat one meat meal a day, while the rest are vegetarian meals. I feel it makes me healthier from a bodily standpoint, as meats can have some clunky fats in them, and other toxins I've heard of.


As far as humane motivations are concerned, I'm pretty sure whether you eat meat, or whether you eat veggies, you are still alive, because you eat life...
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism?

Colress said:
Elite Stride said:
There is a vegan cafe down the street from work that I went to a few times this week for lunch. The food is great, surprisingly, but it's extremely expensive which really sucks! Not as good as say, a real burger or something, but I certainly feel better about myself after eating that instead, lol. I think I'll be a regular at this place for lunch more often. They also have delicious fruit smoothies.
Click to expand...

That's the thing about veganism; it can get expensive. Oh, and people wonder why others are so obese, while burgers are $0.99 and salads are, like, $4.00.
Click to expand...

Well, don't forget that these cheap burgers are usually filled with cheap additives; that is what makes them cheap. Good quality meat is more expensive than your average McDonalds burger. I never understood why salads are that expensive anyway.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

Yeah, it's a shame that salad tends to be so expensive for what you get. You tend to spend less doing regular shopping as a vegetarian, so I guess it cancels out at the least. Between veggie soups, stir fries and curries, I can live very cheaply if I want to. P:
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

I think being one for anything other than health reasons is pointless. Not eating the meat doesn't prevent the factories and butchers from killing the animal, you're just letting their body go to waste (what would the Native Americans think? *horrified expression*)

If we were meant to not eat meat, we wouldn't be able to digest it. (Though I still have regrets that humans can't digest tree bark like monkies can... >_<)
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

I tend to find that although there are people who are legitimate vegetarians because of health or religious reasons, a lot of people become vegetarians simply because they think it's mainstream.

Personally, I have nothing towards eating meat. I love it. But I love vegetables all the same. Being a cross country runner, I've recently become a little bit more health conscious, and I've been making attempts to balance out my diet to keep in top physical shape. So far it's been... kind of working. I'm just glad that I have a very active metabolism, or else I'd weigh an extra hundred pounds.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

Unless one chooses to be a vegetarian for religious, health (i.e. allergies and weight) or because they legitimately can't find a single meat product they like the taste of, I find the practice odd. Choosing to only eat plant matter due to the meat industry, and even health/size in some cases I don't find to be a viable excuse as there are other alternatives such as buying locally. I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with it, but people are omnivorous animals. Our bodies are engineered to have meat in our diet. Unfortunately, we're fed crap thanks to hormones/chemicals being used in livestock growth making our meats fattier than our bodies are engineered to cope with. Veggies aren't much better thanks to Monsanto and their impact on agriculture making getting truly healthy alternatives near impossible, even locally.
Veganism I can't support unless one is allergic to all animal based products. Avoiding a food just because it was made by something alive and categorized as an animal and not a plant seems just a tad ridiculous to me. Avoiding milk is understandable as milk is really only meant to be had by infants. On top of that, we mostly drink cows milk which is meant to make calves very large, not meant to satisfy human calcium demand. Avoiding something like eggs however doesn't really affect the animal kingdom in the least. They are not animals, they are not fertile. They will never mature due to being unfertilized. They have no real purpose other than being eaten by something.
I find myself put off more by the attitude/air around many vegetarians more than the practice itself. Almost every one I've met has had a nose in the air kind of attitude which is very off putting to me. Those that call themselves vegetarians, yet eat fish, don't seem to understand the definition of animal and bother me a bit as well as they have the attitude yet are not what they claim to be. Especially when they eat fish yet not eggs for the reason stated above. So all in all, I'm not against the practice or practitioners who don't shove this lifestyle down another's throat but definitely wouldn't be one.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

Regarding the "humans are omnivores" speculation, all this means is that we are capable of ingesting both meat and plant matter. It does not imply that we have to. If you were to provide conclusive evidence that meat based diets were significantly healthier than vegetarian diets, then yes it would be valid to raise the omnivore claim. But it turns out that so long as a human doesn't have health issues like an allergy to key vegetarian staples, then that human will be perfectly fine with a vegetarian diet. The omnivore observation therefore doesn't have a place in the discussion.

People are vegetarian for many different reasons and yes, many of the philosophies are inconsistent and poorly thought out. But this does not debunk vegetarianism itself, analogous to how the WBC does not represent Christianity. It merely means I'm left in a position to challenge their logic.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

Not so much speculation as fact, but I entirely agree with you as to the definition. However, I do believe it plays a part in my argument for finding it a bit odd outside of the stated reasons. Being omnivorous, humans have a more varied choice of foods to eat from. This said, anything digestible can be made to a form of diet ranging from any combination of foods being all produce to all animal based. I don't think it really makes sense to purposefully limit your variety for anything not cultural/religious, health related or pure taste preference. To choose to be a vegetarian just because you have the choice to do so I can't agree with. It's limiting and frankly inefficient. The purpose of eating is to provide your body the nutrients it needs to run/function. I'm not saying you can't get all that you need from plants alone. In fact, I believe ones diet should consist of primarily produce as they offer more to ones body such as various vitamins and antioxidants. Though some plants do offer proteins, the vast majority that do don't offer quite as much in proportion to most meats. So to avoid a meat for no other reason than choice, and choose plant based proteins which aren't as readily available and aren't as dense with proteins is just inefficient in regards to consumption. I'm not saying those foods shouldn't be eaten, but to completely avoid half of the possible foods you could eat for no other reason than you want to is just odd to me.
I don't exactly feel I'm against the practice in its entirety as there are exceptions as I've mentioned. I'm against, in most if not all cases, choice for the sake of choice. Because it's an option isn't enough of a reason for me to understand why one does something. Without any real reason, where's the honest conviction/belief in what you're doing as being the best option for you? So, as pointed out in your last paragraph, nothing really debunks vegetarianism itself, but it's the philosophies, or lack there of that I have an issue with.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

If the following statements are true, then vegetarianism is in no way detrimental in any faculty and cannot be considered a negative behaviour:

a) A vegetarian diet is at least as healthy as an omnivorous diet.

b) A vegetarian diet requires less resources to maintain (land, water, etc).

Both of these are pretty concrete, we don't even need to bolster the vegetarian stance with additional religious and ethical statements in order to justify it. It's just a logical progression: If you can live comfortably regardless of whether you choose an omnivorous or vegetarian option, the conclusion is to take the diet that minimises the resources used to produce the food.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

In regards to a, neither, as before agreed, is either more nor less beneficial than the other.
In regards to b, I have to say, I'm impressed with it since it caused me to do a bit of research. I've not heard that point on the subject before and find it intriguing. In farm suitable areas, your statement is correct, it is better to use the land for crop as the crop yielded is at a higher proportion than the meat yield for the same acreage for more plants. This being said, I have an excerpt from a passage whose link I will include at the bottom of this message for your own perusing if you'd like to take a look. The article is very interesting and talks about using free-range vs. grain fed beef as I personally agree with.

"With the ruminant animals (like cows, sheep, goats), we’re taking a food source that humans can’t use (grass) and converting it into a food source that is usable by humans (meat). A big key is that there is a lot of land out there that just isn’t suitable for growing crops. So on this land, meat production only makes sense. Of course, just how much land is considered “marginal” is a number you probably won’t find. Regardless, this is the major flaw in the “we should all be vegetarian” argument. Some land won’t support plant life that humans find edible or palatable and therefore, it would be inefficient to not use it for animals."

So for the marginal land, therefore, land not good for farming of any suitable crop, the best consumption use would be for animal raising. This, assuming we take your suggestion at best using our available resources, only supports an omnivorous diet, one based primarily on produce as I suggested previously in my posts, but one where supplied calories involve meat none the less.

http://www.realfooduniversity.com/paleoprimal-lifestyle-sustainable-meat-production/
The excerpt I took is in the marginal land use section. The section right above I found very interesting as well as it involves using a single "pen" for many species of livestock so as to get the most amount of meat per grass-fed acre.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

Yeah, you're right to bring marginal land up (let's define "marginal land" as a space where grass grows but no other crop). From my experience it's a seldom talked about topic as far as vegetarianism is concerned, and it really makes hard reasoning messy because it introduces a ton of new variables. Such as:

  • Is livestock still undesirably inefficient in terms of non-land figures, such as fresh water consumption, methane production, etc?
  • Can marginal land be used for other purposes, e.g construction or environmental conservation, to maximise space for crop land?
  • What studies do you even trust for your figures?
  • etc etc

All things considered, I'd guestimate that the most efficient food production system places a heavy emphasis on crops with livestock filling in the gaps, i.e. occupying unwanted marginal land. So I agree, there's room for livestock, although the population of livestock would be dramatically reduced.

That said though, don't forget that the distribution of (limited) meat does not have to be homogeneous in this most efficient model. It's more important for infants, the elderly and sick people to consume meat than it is for healthy adults. So given this, the logical conclusion is for the majority of people to adopt a vegetarian diet while saving the meat for those who really need it.

Of course, we're not currently in the most efficient food production system, but it makes sense for us to head that way as quickly as possible. Meat production and consumption needs to fall for that to happen, and one of the best ways to drive that is by reducing demand as much as possible- e.g. not eating meat entirely. That's more of a personal thing though, I guess.
 
What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

My opinion? I don't mind it, but I've seen vegans/vegetarians push their food beliefs onto others *coughsYelling at someone for eating a hotdog than harassing them about eating more greenscough* I'll eat what I'll eat and you can eat what you want to eat. On the morality note--humans are animals as well, and animals eat other animals, and not only that, humans evolved as omnivores, so sorry I find that to be more natural than leaning to one side totally.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

A common argument against vegetarianism is the lack of nutrition in the diet. If you have enough money to support a well rounded vegetarian diet, you can easily support a strongly athletic lifestyle. In fact, as of late, there has been a rise in a new trend known as "vegan bodybuilding". Goes to show the merits of skipping out on meat.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

iirc, a lot of supplements are involved in those kind of activities. As said earlier, meat offers some unique proteins that are needed for building.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

As most of the people in the world I respect people that choose to be vegetarians/vegans. I can't tell people how to live their life. I myself could never have turned vegetarian/vegan.

I dislike vegetarians that goes crazy at people that eat meat.

#KFC #Steak #Kebab
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

I'm a little confused as to why meat is more important for infants, the elderly and the sick in comparison to the general person if there are no added benefits to eating it than an all vegetarian diet.
 
RE: What do you think about Vegetarianism/Veganism?

Jungletoad said:
As most of the people in the world I respect people that choose to be vegetarians/vegans. I can't tell people how to live their life. I myself could never have turned vegetarian/vegan.

I dislike vegetarians that goes crazy at people that eat meat.

#KFC #Steak #Kebab
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Basically this is how I feel.

I respect those who vegetarians/vegans, it is their life and they can choose what to eat. However I really hate it when vegetarians/vegans try to shove their lifestyle down other people's throat. In other words, I will respect you but I would like to be respected in return.
 
I agree, I find it annoying when people preach how eating meat is wrong. That's just being ignorant, everyone is entitled to their own choices. From a Chef's point of view, it can sometimes be rather annoying, not so much Vegetarians, but Vegans. Countless times, we have been told their is a vegan, and they don't like the vegan options we have. Then they tell us, what we should make them.
 
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