It's not really appropriate to give feedback about an on-going game until the game itself is completed. When the current game is over, mechanical feedback (along with all other post-game discussion) will go in that game's thread.
Werewolf Master Document & New Player Guide
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It's not really appropriate to give feedback about an on-going game until the game itself is completed. When the current game is over, mechanical feedback (along with all other post-game discussion) will go in that game's thread.
Aaaand we've now chosen the hosts for Werewolf XXXIV!
Congratulations to both of you! With that announcement, applications for hosting Werewolf games is now closed, but keep your eyes out for future rounds of applications if you're interested!
Congratulations to both of you! With that announcement, applications for hosting Werewolf games is now closed, but keep your eyes out for future rounds of applications if you're interested!
Aaaaand it's time for Werewolf host applications to open again! Applications should be submitted to the FG staff: Athena, bbninjas, Celever, Luispipe8. Once submitted, we'll respond with acknowledgement of your application within 24 hours. For more detailed information about applying for WW hosting, check out here!
The deadline for apps will be midnight June 20th (GMT). Good luck to all applicants!
The deadline for apps will be midnight June 20th (GMT). Good luck to all applicants!
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PMJ
Silhouette Gloom of the Sundown Lands
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Yo bb, you mind updating the OP of this thread with the new staff names? It's outdated. I see that you have the correct names here, but might as well update it so everything is smooth.
Fixed ~bb
Fixed ~bb
I would like to start a discussion about the Proboards Threads. What do you guys think of them? Should we see more of them in the future? Are there any ways to fix the inactivity problems we've seen there? What unique mechanics can be performed because of proboards?
Can we wait to talk about this until my game is done considering I'm using them in my game?
Having seen it on both ends at this point, there's a lot I want to talk about regarding Proboards without spoiling my game (due to the aliases).
This is something I've been thinking about for a while and I'm wondering what other players think about it.
How long is the ideal time for a mafia game?
We've seen a few games here (quaking and bbninjas) finish in around a month. Mine is looking at finishing in a total of around 3 weeks. As a community, we've had games take months in complete so this recent trend is quite noticeable. But is this a good change, or should we be looking backwards?
Personally, I'd push for even shorter (2-3 weeks would be the max). As someone who's been NKed Day 1 before (hi quakingpunch!) and is really only here to play Mafia, waiting those weeks (or months) for the games to finish is really quite boring, even with a graveyard chat to go with it. I've played in much shorter games elsewhere (games usually last around a week) and they work really well and are still a lot of fun. It also helps to keep things fresh by changing the themes every few weeks.
I really like this change because it helps prevent burnout and requires less of a time commitment. Our community is getting smaller and so we need to keep people interested in games; if they burnout and get inactive, that's counterproductive). Telling players that they need to commit months to your online game isn't respectful hosting in my opinion because internet lives are (usually) secondary to real lives.
Anyways, thoughts?
How long is the ideal time for a mafia game?
We've seen a few games here (quaking and bbninjas) finish in around a month. Mine is looking at finishing in a total of around 3 weeks. As a community, we've had games take months in complete so this recent trend is quite noticeable. But is this a good change, or should we be looking backwards?
Personally, I'd push for even shorter (2-3 weeks would be the max). As someone who's been NKed Day 1 before (hi quakingpunch!) and is really only here to play Mafia, waiting those weeks (or months) for the games to finish is really quite boring, even with a graveyard chat to go with it. I've played in much shorter games elsewhere (games usually last around a week) and they work really well and are still a lot of fun. It also helps to keep things fresh by changing the themes every few weeks.
I really like this change because it helps prevent burnout and requires less of a time commitment. Our community is getting smaller and so we need to keep people interested in games; if they burnout and get inactive, that's counterproductive). Telling players that they need to commit months to your online game isn't respectful hosting in my opinion because internet lives are (usually) secondary to real lives.
Anyways, thoughts?
I think that this is a good discussion to have and should be properly considered. There is many advantages to changing, but it would definitely throw around our meta a lot.
I think it is coincidental that the last two games finished early. My game ended early because the scum were a bit too powerful and reached majority with four of them alive, and there was a couple extra deaths that probably shouldn't have been there. There was also two back-to-back 24-48 hr hammers probably due to the split discussion threads, which cut the game length down significantly. In the case of quaking's game, it was basically the opposite. The town were very powerful and we got considerably lucky in lynching the scum consecutively and quickly. I think the scum also conceded early, all making the game abnormally short. That crazy fast hammer was another thing. Multiballs like yours are generally short with the increased amount of deaths. So I don't really think we're naturally having shorter games now; I think it's been either because of mechanics, balancing issues and hammers.
That said, I really like the idea of shortening WW games, but not by introducing lots of deaths. Instead, I would recommend shortening day length if we were to shorten WW games. This, however, is a huge change. At PB, we rely on the long 5-day Day 1 and Day 2 to get a lynch from RVS and to scumhunt with little available information respectively. I think it becomes a problem when we have long 5-day Days by Day 4 and afterwards when the alive players is far less, especially when the active players are dead. I would think that cutting day length would force scumhunting from large cases and large defenses to smaller cases. The threat is that if our meta does not adapt, the first player to get a case made on them will be guaranteed lynch, since we often will take two or so days to move from wagon to wagon, in the present meta.
However, I find that like the longer games on PB. I find that I like to join the short 1 to 2 week games of another forum while playing PB games, as it keeps me from going bored especially when dead on PB. Nevertheless, I agree that if we could reduce the commitment needed from players, things could go much smoother.
I think it is coincidental that the last two games finished early. My game ended early because the scum were a bit too powerful and reached majority with four of them alive, and there was a couple extra deaths that probably shouldn't have been there. There was also two back-to-back 24-48 hr hammers probably due to the split discussion threads, which cut the game length down significantly. In the case of quaking's game, it was basically the opposite. The town were very powerful and we got considerably lucky in lynching the scum consecutively and quickly. I think the scum also conceded early, all making the game abnormally short. That crazy fast hammer was another thing. Multiballs like yours are generally short with the increased amount of deaths. So I don't really think we're naturally having shorter games now; I think it's been either because of mechanics, balancing issues and hammers.
That said, I really like the idea of shortening WW games, but not by introducing lots of deaths. Instead, I would recommend shortening day length if we were to shorten WW games. This, however, is a huge change. At PB, we rely on the long 5-day Day 1 and Day 2 to get a lynch from RVS and to scumhunt with little available information respectively. I think it becomes a problem when we have long 5-day Days by Day 4 and afterwards when the alive players is far less, especially when the active players are dead. I would think that cutting day length would force scumhunting from large cases and large defenses to smaller cases. The threat is that if our meta does not adapt, the first player to get a case made on them will be guaranteed lynch, since we often will take two or so days to move from wagon to wagon, in the present meta.
However, I find that like the longer games on PB. I find that I like to join the short 1 to 2 week games of another forum while playing PB games, as it keeps me from going bored especially when dead on PB. Nevertheless, I agree that if we could reduce the commitment needed from players, things could go much smoother.
There really is no ideal time for a mafia game to last, as all games have different player counts, roles, and mechanics that could directly relate to how long the games last. I prefer 3-5 weeks a game personally, as it requires players to make a commitment to play, but doesn't last too long. However, as long as the game is enjoyable and is active, I don't mind how long it lasts.
I prefer shorter games myself. In fact, games length here is one of the reasons why I've more or less stopped playing; too much of a commitment, especially when reading posts that were made overnight sometimes took me as long as an hour or more. That said, I believe day/game length is something that is best left to the GM. I think it would be nice if some upcoming GMs would try having shorter days to see how it works in the community.
Nightless games definitely are much shorter. They're not even that difficult to play/run, the host usually just needs to allow people to submit lists of actions in case their first choice of target is lynched or so, and hammer rules may need to be changed/removed to make sure that people have enough time to submit actions (so effectively the voting deadline would be the same as the action submitting deadline). Some strategy may be slightly different, also.
I do think that would be a bigger change for the community here than simply shortening phases, though, since people would have to get accustomed to sending in their actions sooner and before all information is known, plus possible hammer changes. Not to imply that it's either a good thing or a bad thing (like shorter phases, I also prefer night-less games, though both are probably as a result from where I learned to both play and GMs), just discussing options.
I do think that would be a bigger change for the community here than simply shortening phases, though, since people would have to get accustomed to sending in their actions sooner and before all information is known, plus possible hammer changes. Not to imply that it's either a good thing or a bad thing (like shorter phases, I also prefer night-less games, though both are probably as a result from where I learned to both play and GMs), just discussing options.
If we're really going ahead with shortening phases, I really hope us not living in the timezone of the majority would be taken into account too, so as not to make it too short? Though I do wonder if I'm the only one with the awkward login time here, and I suppose I can accept if it's too much trouble making an exception just for one or maybe two persons.
What I think is that on Day 1 and/or 2 (and maybe 3) while there are still many players left, 4-5 real life days for the Day Phase is enough since there are still a lot of people talking then, and intersecting conversations sometimes require people waiting and replying in different halves of a day. However, from Day 4 onward AND depending on the timezones of the players left, then I'm all for the proposal to shorten the Day to 3 real life days or 72 hours because you know those players don't need to wait long to post and get a reply back on what they've just posted.
What I think is that on Day 1 and/or 2 (and maybe 3) while there are still many players left, 4-5 real life days for the Day Phase is enough since there are still a lot of people talking then, and intersecting conversations sometimes require people waiting and replying in different halves of a day. However, from Day 4 onward AND depending on the timezones of the players left, then I'm all for the proposal to shorten the Day to 3 real life days or 72 hours because you know those players don't need to wait long to post and get a reply back on what they've just posted.
I'm actually against the change to shorter deadlines. Personally I find the longer deadlines really useful because you can adapt it around your schedule better. When I have an exam or coursework coming up I can ignore werewolf more the night before and then I'm able to catch up on what I missed the next irl day without actually missing out on a phase or missing out on being able to put my input into a lynch. Whenever I've played in games with shorter deadlines I've felt much more pressure to keep up with the thread, so I actually think that shorter deadlines generate a greater time commitment. You've only for 72 hours so you've got to make use of the time you've got much more than a 96 or 120 hour day which gives you more flexibility and relieves pressure. I don't play in games with short deadlines any more because they're just too inconvenient and I have trouble keeping up with them sometimes, which says a lot when I'm one of the more active players on this site.
Reinforce also brings up a good point about timezones, because we as a site are very diverse in terms of our time. As with most English sites the majority of our users are American or Canadian, but on PB we also have a couple Europeans, someone in the middle east, a Malaysian a someone from the Phillipines and an Australian or two. And that's just people that I know, so there could be more diversity. Shorter deadlines does disadvantage these people, or if nothing else is kinda results in two games happening in the same thread: Americans playing with each other and then everyone else playing with each other, because of how time zones work out. I think it's definitely optimal to avoid a situation like this, which is why I prefer longer deadlines.
Of course, as the game decreases in live players the deadline can decrease, but that normally happens anyway.
Reinforce also brings up a good point about timezones, because we as a site are very diverse in terms of our time. As with most English sites the majority of our users are American or Canadian, but on PB we also have a couple Europeans, someone in the middle east, a Malaysian a someone from the Phillipines and an Australian or two. And that's just people that I know, so there could be more diversity. Shorter deadlines does disadvantage these people, or if nothing else is kinda results in two games happening in the same thread: Americans playing with each other and then everyone else playing with each other, because of how time zones work out. I think it's definitely optimal to avoid a situation like this, which is why I prefer longer deadlines.
Of course, as the game decreases in live players the deadline can decrease, but that normally happens anyway.
Long games are fun. I don't think making a game for a week helps to the amount of interest. I think it's a lot more interesting to find out a player that you've hunted for a long time is scum. I also don't know how we can do it in practice. Hosting once a week or 2 might lead to games that are made by the same host, since we are a small community here. I agree with everything Celever said: I think that short games are not very beneficial to those of us who are usually very busy at work and studying. Also, like bbninjas said, it may limit the possibility to shift from a certain case and overall to limit discussion. Inactivity is an issue, but I don't think that making the days shorter will make inactive people to post more. Actually, I don't see the logic behind it at all.
Just under 5 days left to submit an application to host the next Werewolf game, if you would like to!
The next mafia hosts have been decided!
Mafia XXXV will be hosted by...
And Mafia XXXVI will be hosted by...
Thank you to everyone who applied and we're sorry if your application didn't get accepted. All applicants who haven't already been PM'd should expect a PM from the staff soon! n_n
Mafia XXXV will be hosted by...
@PMJ!
Thank you to everyone who applied and we're sorry if your application didn't get accepted. All applicants who haven't already been PM'd should expect a PM from the staff soon! n_n
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Congrats to the new hosts!
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