Was BW the Worst Season?

Blob55

Blob55

Aspiring Trainer
Member
This also applies to late DP.

BW had fairly bland and stupid characters. Ash actually regressed back to being worse than he was in Johto, his traveling companions would just spout out catchphrases the whole time, also, their stories never really went anywhere.
A few more problems I have with BW, is all but 3 of Ash's Pokémon were neglected and were way under leveled for the league.
It's like the writers decided to start all of these personalities and traits for characters, but about 20 episodes later, they'd ignore or forget about them, like Pidove not liking to fight and in DP, Grotle having issues with its weight, but somehow being fine with evolving into Torterra.
One of my biggest problems with BW, was the stupid Delora islands, as the league should of been there and it just ended up being a huge waste of time. The only old Pokémon Ash bought back was Charizard and he never even used his very neglected Unfezant or Palpitoad.

Why do you think BW was so bad? What were the writers thinking? So far XY looks like it's WAY better, as the characters are more interesting, Ash gets a bit of backstory and I think it's cool that they made Serena already know Ash. Also, Ash isn't trying to get a full party as soon as possible.

IMO, XY looks like it'll be AG 2.0, as Ash only has one starter and they changed the drawing style, like in AG.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

I didn't see a whole lot of BW (some of the beginning eps and then some other random parts and eps here and there), but what I did see just felt... soulless. It felt like I was seeing bad actors playing cookie cutter roles and there was almost no personality or spark. I really liked Oshawott in the episodes that I saw, but everyone and everything else was very lackluster. It kind of made me nervous to see XY, but overall XY seems much improved, so I've been happy.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

I have posted several rants about BW scattered throughout some anime threads. Go check them out if you want to see my full opinion on BW. But the main things I hated the most were the following:
1. The animation was too clean.
2. Iris and Cilan's catchphrases (and Cilan's "evaluation time") were absolutely annoying.
3. The Decolore Islands episodes were nothing but boring filler.

BW was probably one of the worst seasons of the anime. I've heard about Johto being pretty bad too but tbh, I never saw many of the Johto episodes so I can't really compare. But BW just seemed kidded down and sugarcoated, like they were specifically trying to aim EXCLUSIVELY to the 5 to 8 year old demographic and turn all older fans off the anime completely. So sad. :(

But luckily, X/Y seems to be saving the anime with more complex and likable characters and animation that has improved by leaps and bounds! BW was an eyesore compared to the more anime-ish animation in X/Y. I am simply dying to see the dub when it debuts later in the month!
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

SV, the Johto fillers are actually pretty good, as they have soul to them and most, if not all of the POTD and COTD had interesting personalities and quirks.
Plus, at least with Johto fillers, you knew 10-20 episodes later Ash would get a badge. Delora Islands, however, is completely skip able bar a few episodes if you want to watch XY.
These episodes are:
Farewell, Unova! Setting Sail for New Adventures! - Plot, so you know why Ash and co. are traveling.
To Catch a Rotom! - Oak captures Rotom.
The Journalist from Another Region! - So you know how Ash knows Alexa.
A Pokémon of a Different Color! - To a lesser extent, if you like Clair.
Celebrating the Hero's Comet! - Revealed that Alexa has a Noivern.
Go, Go Gogoat! - To a lesser extent. It revealed that Gogoat was Alexa's first Pokémon.
Survival of the Striaton Gym! - Optional. Only for Cilan fans.
Best Wishes Until We Meet Again! - A Goodbye episode.
The Dream Continues! - Probably the best episode in the whole of BW.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

Thanks for pointing that out. As they are older episodes, I would expect more soul out of Johto but I kinda went on haitus during the Johto season and didn't watch the anime again until AG, particularly the episode A Togepi Mirage!
And yes, I did see all of those episodes you listed and my favorite one of the list was Survival of the Striation Gym! Cilan was actually at his best here and I really like how he interacts with Chili and Cress and his chemistry with Pansage. Imo, he is a lot better as a gym leader than a traveling companion.

But yeah, most characters in BW were lacking any memorable character traits and were either generic cardboard cutouts or extremely annoying. The two I hated the most were Georgia and Burgandy. Georgia just wanted to destroy Iris simply for the sake of being a dragon buster and Burgandy was just a poser who mispronounced French words all the time. Sure Burgandy had a grudge on Cilan for defeating her at the Striaton Gym but she was just a snob and a sore loser. Is it me or did Georgia and Burgandy's personalities seem the same? There were times I could barely tell them apart they acted so similar and were both equally snobby and obnoxious.

The only recurring characters I kinda liked were Bianca, Cameron and Virgil (aka the Eevee guy). Bianca and Cameron were ditzy enough that I found them funny and somewhat memorable. Not to mention Cameron had some pretty awesome Pokemon on his team like Lucario, Hydreigon and Samurott (who all happen to be some of my favorite Pokemon, I'm not biased lol. :p )
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

pikapika33 said:
I didn't think that Black and White was so bad. I actually enjoyed it.
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Can you explain why? Was BW your first series?
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

Blob55 said:
pikapika33 said:
I didn't think that Black and White was so bad. I actually enjoyed it.
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Can you explain why? Was BW your first series?
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I really liked the fresh new storyline and a lot of the Pokemon were really cool. It was also cool to have a character whose goal was something other than becoming a breeder, water Pokemon master, or a coordinator. Black and White definitely wasn't my first Pokemon series. I have watch pretty much since the beginning. Black and White wasn't the best but it also wasn't the worst.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

Is it me or did Georgia and Burgandy's personalities seem the same? There were times I could barely tell them apart they acted so similar and were both equally snobby and obnoxious.
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Thank you for mentioning this. I too have thought the same thing when I survey these two! These ladies were a prime example of a writer placing more emphasis on making sure everyone has a rival, than making the character mix actually make sense. It should never be about writing a story that's symmetrical in this sense. Characters aren't a math equation that you need to "balance out" per se....just because Cilan has a rival, doesn't mean we need to distribute one to everyone else too. I mean, you can, but you can't be lazy about it. TPC happened to be lazy about it, and the result is two characters who are essentially reflections of each other, which in the end makes them both boring.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

Not all of BW was bad, as it actually refreshed aspects of the anime that got stale in DP.

- Regardless of how you felt about Cilan, it was more than time for Brock to leave. This is also why Brock didn't come back for the XY series either. Brock had become so stale and flat during DP that seeing him go was only a good thing.

- Although I was OK with Dawn, the concept of contests and coordinators started to get old during DP. Whereas during AG they were a fresh new concept and the Hoenn coordinators actually had funny and enjoyable moments, the DP coordinators weren't very interesting in comparison. That being said I didn't dislike Dawn, I just felt that she wasn't as interesting as the previous two girls.

- Iris and Cilan were intended to improve the groups chemistry from the DP trio, which solely lacked any type of memorable interaction. Brock and Dawn felt almost like strangers together, at least Iris and Cilan felt like they enjoyed each others company.


Other than that, a lot of BW was bad. Mainly because of how Ash and his pokemon were treated. But BW did improve some aspects that got stale during DP.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

Although her catchphrase and occasional sassyness were pretty annoying, I would have to agree that I like Iris more than Dawn. Personally, I thought Dawn was far too much of a girly girl for my tastes and I got tired of seeing her fret over her appearance so much. I know she's a coordinator and you're supposed to look good and be fabulous but it just got annoying after a while.

Iris actually was a pretty cool character once you get right down to it. Her backstory at Opelucid Academy shown in the episode with Drayden actually got some feels out of me and I could relate to her free-spirited nature because I was kind of like that at that age. She does have a lot of other cute and revealing flashbacks throughout the series showing how she has grown from her past experiences. Iris was probably the most fleshed out character in BW and she is up there as one of my favorite traveling companions.

I think the main reason BW wasn't as good as we hoped was that it wasn't brought out to its full potential. Be it with stories, character development and how those things were portrayed. If that full potential was achieved, than maybe, just maybe, BW may have been one of the best anime series instead of a lackluster one.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

precita said:
Not all of BW was bad, as it actually refreshed aspects of the anime that got stale in DP.

- Regardless of how you felt about Cilan, it was more than time for Brock to leave. This is also why Brock didn't come back for the XY series either. Brock had become so stale and flat during DP that seeing him go was only a good thing.

- Although I was OK with Dawn, the concept of contests and coordinators started to get old during DP. Whereas during AG they were a fresh new concept and the Hoenn coordinators actually had funny and enjoyable moments, the DP coordinators weren't very interesting in comparison. That being said I didn't dislike Dawn, I just felt that she wasn't as interesting as the previous two girls.

- Iris and Cilan were intended to improve the groups chemistry from the DP trio, which solely lacked any type of memorable interaction. Brock and Dawn felt almost like strangers together, at least Iris and Cilan felt like they enjoyed each others company.


Other than that, a lot of BW was bad. Mainly because of how Ash and his pokemon were treated. But BW did improve some aspects that got stale during DP.
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I completely disagree.

Cilan was not a good Brock substitute, as he was very annoying and I personally think Clemont is much better (If you can call him a substitute).

Dawn... hm. I don't hate her per sé, but I do hate how Piplup pretty much forced her to stop using her other Pokémon. Look at how Piplup treated Cyndaquil when it was hatched and how in every episode, when Dawn has a disagreement with Piplup, it runs away.
Also, why did Ambipom leave? That was such a stupid goodbye episode.

well, to me, Iris, Cilian and Ash kind of all just feel like strangers around each other. They don't play off of each other at all and a lot of the time they act like they're not even in the same room.

BW was bad because of how Ash and his Pokémon were treated and how everyone around him was treated too. Not to mention the worst rivalries ever.
At least in DP, Ash's Pokémon were treated well most of the series, and the rivalries were much better.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

Blob55 said:
Cilan was not a good Brock substitute, as he was very annoying and I personally think Clemont is much better (If you can call him a substitute).
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I didn't have a problem with Cilan, nor do I have a problem with Clemont. As I said earlier, Brock's role in the anime pretty much ended with the Johto saga. Him coming back for Hoenn was OK but during Battle Frontier and DP he had completely run his course.

Looking back I'm surprised they didn't just have Brock leave for good at the end of Johto when Misty did. Looking back now 10 years later, we know the original trio was never reunited and Misty pretty much stayed gone and faded away herself. I think the only reason they had Brock come back is because back then they weren't sure if they were going to bring in new characters every gen, as AG was the first major cast revamp to the series.

Dawn... hm. I don't hate her per sé, but I do hate how Piplup pretty much forced her to stop using her other Pokémon. Look at how Piplup treated Cyndaquil when it was hatched and how in every episode, when Dawn has a disagreement with Piplup, it runs away.
Also, why did Ambipom leave? That was such a stupid goodbye episode.
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Agreed. I wasn't a huge Dawn fan but what else could they do? The writers tried too hard not to make her into a May clone but instead she turned into an Ash clone. As a coordinator she was decent for what she was, even though her pokemon and rivals weren't handled very well.

BW was bad because of how Ash and his Pokémon were treated and how everyone around him was treated too. Not to mention the worst rivalries ever.
At least in DP, Ash's Pokémon were treated well most of the series, and the rivalries were much better.
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I'll agree with this. Not sure how I feel about XY yet, but so much of it really reminds me of Hoenn/AG.

It's too early for me to speak about Serena either, since she hasn't done much yet and we don't really know what goal she'll have. Right now she feels like a bizarre mix of May and Dawn combined...so we'll see...
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

This is a great discussion, lets be sure to stay on the original topic though. Of course, do feel free ti create threads for these other topics.

precita said:
- Iris and Cilan were intended to improve the groups chemistry from the DP trio, which solely lacked any type of memorable interaction. Brock and Dawn felt almost like strangers together, at least Iris and Cilan felt like they enjoyed each others company.
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I think you allude to a valuable point here. Something I thought of while reading this was that maybe these infamous phrases/sayings that main characters are known (and hated) for are just a gimmick to produce memorable characters. Maybe that was exactly what the writers were aiming for. We're all going to remember Iris and Dent way down the line more than we are Dawn...by nature of how passionate fans have become about opposing those kinds of characters.

They may not be memorable
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

I'm in the same position as SkyeVictini, since I too have already give my opinion, but I'll also list here my main reasons for hating BW:

- the animation was indeed very clean with too much bright and vivid colors, namely in forests;
- Iris as the failed Dragon wannabe master with Axew remaining in that stage for what I can only see as cuteness factor; getting a Dragonite seemed lazy and just an excuse for fans to not see her as a total failure, when it would be far more interesting to see her got and train a Hydreigon; oh yes, that "you're such a kid" was just soooo annoying since it was coming from that failed stupid girl. Clair is always the subject of jokes pertaining her clothes but she is a much more capable trainer;
- Cilan as another cook slave (I wasn't displeased with his "evaluation time" and "hobbies");
- Lack of personality in some Pokémon, namely Team Rocket's, being more like mute slaves, as well as more of the cuteness factor into play by not evolving most of the Pokémon: I was really looking foward to see Oshawott turning into a capable "samurai" Pokémon and not just the joke with potencial; Snivy just played the caretaker role and only a couple of times; old fire-starter lame story, etc.;
- Ash being the always stupid travelling dreamer, going as far as to go fight Elesa with just one Pokémon;
- the wasted potencial that Trip was; he could have been a stronger trainer like Paul but with more ambition and less mean look but instead he was most of the time annoying like Gary and the creators made him loose in a stupid way with his Serperior loosing to Pikachu - sooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong and unfair. Serperior should have eat that mouse whole and spit out a junk of bones! This really gets on my nerves.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

Trip was wasted potential indeed. He just felt like a watered down jerk who talked down to Ash just for the sake of being stuck-up. Not to mention his catchphrase was a million times worse than anyone else's combined. If I hear "That's basic stuff" one more time I will punch him in the face. Also, don't get me started on how Pikachu lost to his Snivy in the first episode. Grumble...

Although I do like Iris, I felt a lot of potential was wasted on her team. Like everyone else, I really wanted her to get a Deino and evolve it into a Hydreigon. Oh, and her Dragonite was so mean and reckless I couldn't get myself to like him. And that's saying something considering Dragonite is one of my favorite Gen I Pokemon.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

What was horrible was that it seemed that Ash and like two other random characters had actual goals in the series, while every other character just stood there and reacted to anything. The series probably would've been the same without them. With Iris being a leader and champion in the games, I was hoping that her and Ash would have this epic finale battle between their "strongest" Pokemon (preferably a Haxorus vs. Charizard or any starter if he decided to evolve the worthless thing)!....oh excuse me, I got a bit worked up there. I just hope in XY Serena or the other friends have more depth to them compared to the husks that were the BW travel companions. It would've been kinda cool if Hilda was the travel companion and then switched to Rosa (Hilda could leave to another region by herself or something).
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

I wonder if Iris was an experiment to go back to having a Gym leader companion like Misty, but it backfired so they went back to choosing the female protagonist of the games again with Serena like they did with May and Dawn before.

I still can't help but feel that Serena feels like some bizarre mix of May and Dawn's personalities/traits combined into one character. Design wise she looks similar to Dawn but her uncertainty of her goal and her personality feels similar to May.

Although to be fair only like 12 episodes of XY has aired, I can't make up an opinion about Serena till we get deeper into the saga.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

I don´t think BW was so bad. It all depends on what people think, some say it is good while other says it is bad. But I don´t think BW was bad. Sure some characters weren´t very likable but I don´t think you should hate the whole saga because of that. Any way I liked BW more then DP. Because DP was just boring in my opinion. Don´t hate me, I just want to say my opinions. I really liked the awesome, vivid and bright animation in BW, Iris was a much better female character than the last one Dawn and the best of BW that made the whole saga enjoyable for me was: OSHAWOTT!!! He was very cool, awesome, cute and funny.
 
RE: Why was BW so bad?

SkyeVictini said:
Trip was wasted potential indeed. He just felt like a watered down jerk who talked down to Ash just for the sake of being stuck-up. Not to mention his catchphrase was a million times worse than anyone else's combined. If I hear "That's basic stuff" one more time I will punch him in the face. Also, don't get me started on how Pikachu lost to his Snivy in the first episode. Grumble...

Although I do like Iris, I felt a lot of potential was wasted on her team. Like everyone else, I really wanted her to get a Deino and evolve it into a Hydreigon. Oh, and her Dragonite was so mean and reckless I couldn't get myself to like him. And that's saying something considering Dragonite is one of my favorite Gen I Pokemon.
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Oh, that catchphrase...I didn't remember it anymore but it was indeed so much stupid! -.-
And what's wih the camera since we didn't get to see his photo collection at the end?
Trip was a kid with a plan, namely, overthrowing Alder and then, after loosing to him, he just turns into another brat (he was already but now he's more of an annoying and useless brat).

I was going to ask if Ash and Co. ever went to the Village of Dragons but I went looking and they did. Talk about unforgettable!
I hate Iris' Dragonite. It's just plain stupid and kind of a bully, always wanting to pick a fight.
Another proof of Iris' incompetence: Noivern is a Dragon-type Pokémon and Alexa has one and it tends to bite people. Did Iris interacted with it or showed at least some interest? Hell no. So much for the Dragon master wannabe.
I would love to see her facing off against Lance and seeing him bringing her to her feet, crying and lost with Lance telling her she's nothing more than a rookie and it has still a long way to go and that she accomplished almost nothing when travelling with Ash. All of her Pokémon just defeated in a matter of seconds and even worse than Ash's Pokémon after facing Paul in a full battle.
 
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