Discussion Versatility of Tate and Liza

Discussion in 'PTCG Competitive Play' started by Rindon, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Rindon Aspiring Trainer
    Rindon

    Member

    just finished the pre-release and I was quite surprised by the versatility of this supporter. Shuffle and draw 5 is obviously in the short end compared to Cynthia (6cards). However in a format where float stone will be gone...the ability to either draw or switch could come in very handy.

    Next great Pokémon ability “you may choose one or both options for supporter cards”
     


  2. Holden Sheeks a.k.a. WinterShorts
    Holden Sheeks

    Advanced Member Member

    I'm on the opposite side honestly. Switching or having free retreat is nice, but I wouldn't do it for your supporter for the turn when you could do something more impactful like switching something to the active and getting a knockout (Guzma) or refreshing your hand to 6 (Cynthia). I guess to have both these kinds of effects on one card is nice and might save deck space, but in this format we have Tapu Lele-GX who is already searchable herself and searches for whatever supporter you want the turn you need it, so I don't think the versatility of Tate & Liza is necessary. I just think that both the effects of this supporter are slightly too underwhelming and other supporters, even though they only had one of those kinds of effects, would just be better. I don't recall Giovanni's Scheme seeing any play when it was around even with the holy VS Seeker + Sycamore engine was in effect (but correct me if I'm wrong).
     
  3. This card suffers from Giovanni's Scheme Syndrome. The card would be freaking dope if you had both effects (and it's entirely possible that TPCi prints a card that achieves this like in Kukui) and I'd much rather search for Cynthia or Guzma if I wanted to do either. I could see players choosing to utilize no more than one copy as a "fifth" Cynthia or "fifth" Guzma, but it should be understood that the card is otherwise just not enough to make an impact.

    In the early stages of next format, this card could very well see a little bit of popularity as players scramble to find the "staple" Supporter lineup for their decks. I think it'll die off tho. I wouldn't invest in high-rarity forms of Tate and Liza.
     
  4. AuraJackle Aspiring Trainer
    AuraJackle

    Member

    It's the second best draw option after rotation tied with copycat but it's a bit more consistent. It's also going to exist when float stone wont exist so it's pretty good and underappreciated at the moment
     
  5. ForeverRanger91 Aspiring Trainer
    ForeverRanger91

    Member

    I think it will be a solid 1-2 of in every deck, especially in decks with Pokemon that have a high retreat cost. Guzma and Cynthia are better but having an extra switch can come up clutch at times. In the pre-release I used it more for its switch effect than the draw due to having Metagross out.
     
  6. Mega Mewthree... A new threat has appeared.
    Mega Mewthree...

    Member

    Hey there. Which is better?

    Hala
    Tate and Liza
    Judge
    Copycat

    Please advise.
     
  7. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    None. The effectiveness of all four are circumstantial and situational. They all depend on the way your deck is built and the safe of the game
     
  8. Rindon Aspiring Trainer
    Rindon

    Member

    I believe Tate and Liza and copycat to be in a better class than the other two. But as @CrownAxe pointed out, it really depends on deck. Judge will come in handy for Shiftry Gx and Hala could be very good but only for decks using gx move early on.
     
  9. Mega Mewthree... A new threat has appeared.
    Mega Mewthree...

    Member

    What about Cynthia??
     
  10. Holden Sheeks a.k.a. WinterShorts
    Holden Sheeks

    Advanced Member Member

    Well yeah, Cynthia is better than all of those options :p

    I know that CrownAxe has said that they're all good in specific scenarios which I agree on and should be ran with Cynthia, but none of the 4 cards listed shouldn't ever "out-prioritize" Cynthia.

    If we were talking about which out of the 4 is better in general, I'd say Copycat, but I'd pick Judge if we were playing Zoroark or Copycat if we were playing against Zoroark.
     
  11. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic GX
    Duo

    Member

    After looking at more Japanese deck lists post rotation (just to see lists that have actually been playtested and not just theory crafted), a 1 of Tate & Liza seems to be something that pops up a lot.

    I think considering a Tate & Liza for a deck is a good thing when you are playing a deck that doesn't want things in the discard, in which case you would replace a count of Sightseer for Tate & Liza. That gives you 5 shuffle draw supporters and less discard so you can preserve more resources.

    I was super against Tate & Liza at first, but given our draw supporter options post rotation, 1 copy of them is actually not a bad idea.
     
  12. j2y8n2x Aspiring Trainer
    j2y8n2x

    Member

    One of my friend really loves this card and told me to buy some instead of buying Cynthia.
    I'm currently running a Naganadel GX deck and still haven't bought any Cynthia or Guzma yet.
     
  13. Mega Mewthree... A new threat has appeared.
    Mega Mewthree...

    Member

    I have been playing Naganadel as well and hose cards have been crucial.
     
    j2y8n2x likes this.
  14. The Evil Sneasel Aspiring Trainer
    The Evil Sneasel

    Member

    Tate and liza isn't the greatest but we are still forced to play it after rotation otherwise the consistency of our decks will drop.
     
  15. SchwarzFlux Aspiring Trainer
    SchwarzFlux

    Member

    I still can't think of playing it. I think that after rotation, I will run Altar of the Lune for Psychic decks and Switch for the rest.
     
  16. CrownAxe Aspiring Trainer
    CrownAxe

    Member

    You don’t play it for switch, you play it for the card draw
     
  17. Mega Mewthree... A new threat has appeared.
    Mega Mewthree...

    Member

    I have been using tate and liza for draw support and switch to great effect. Works well in beast box where stakataka has 3 retreat.
     
  18. Sabaku Aspiring Trainer
    Sabaku

    Member

    I like the thought behind Tate and Liza. In a format where Sycamore, N, and Float Stone will be gone, it is another form of card draw and a means of switching that lets you avoid cluttering the deck with Switch for pivoting.

    I can see this being at least a 2 or 3-of easily for the versatility.

    You gotta remember that Giovanni's Scheme was a simple draw and not a shuffle and draw. +20 doesn't do much for the game unless you can stack buffs like Buzzwole, and with how Scheme's draw works, it would be either a dead card or a Hau with worse restrictions just about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  19. PokeMedic Don't talk to me or my Pokemon ever again
    PokeMedic

    Articles Staff Activities Staff Member

    Prepare to be disagreed with
    by someone else
     
  20. Mega Mewthree... A new threat has appeared.
    Mega Mewthree...

    Member

    Order of emotions
    1.:mad:
    2.:eek:
    3.:D
     

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