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Standard Typhlosion/Talonflame (2017 Rotation)

B

BenNeto

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I Started to play Pokémon 6 months ago using only 1 deck: Vileplume/Vespiqueen. With the next rotation comming, i think Vespiqueen will not be viable anymore. So, i decided to create my first deck using my favourite Pokémon: Typhlosion!

I'm Trying to work without Shaymin, cuzz where i live it is too expensive to get it (The Vileplume/Vespiqueen that i used to play had 4 proxys of shaymin...).

-------------

Pokémon: 15
  • 4 Cyndaquil (Breakthrough)
  • 1 Quilava (Breakthrough)
  • 4 Typhlosion (Breakthrough)
  • 4 Talonflame (Steam Siege)
  • 2 Mew-Ex (XY Promos Xy123)
Trainers/Supporters/Itens/Stadiums: 20
  • 3 Skyla
  • 4 Teammates
  • 4 Rare Candy
  • 3 Ultra Ball
  • 2 Super Rod
  • 2 Energy Recycler
  • 1 Level Ball
  • 1 Escape Rope
Energy: 25
  • 25 Fire Energy
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EDITED: Added more Talonflames and Mew-Ex

Strategy:

Just hope to get Talonflame, With it, you can set up Typhlosion on next turn, in most cases. If you can do that, you have will KOing the opponent's Pokémon.

The only problem is setting up the second Typhlosion or, at least, swarm another 1 or 2 Cyndaquils on the bench.

If you don't start with Talonflame, your salvation will be Teammates. You will need to have 2 PKM in play and Teammates in your hand. Always try to have Teammates in you hand, he will make possible to make another Typhlosion every time you opponent Knock Out your Active Pokémon.



Sorry for my english
 
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Your English isn't too bad. So don't worry about it. (Heck, some who even have English as their native language can't speak it right.)

Anyway, onto your list. I'm assuming this is going to be PCL-XY11 (Steam Siege). The first thing to note is that Talonflame is from Steam Siege, not Fates Collide. Second, drop the Talonflame all together. It is heavily unused in this deck.

Next, I know you don't want to, but you're going to really need Shaymin. It really helps give a big burst of draw power. If last resort is required, get a 2-2 line of Octillery instead. It does clunk up the list a bit, but draw power is really needed.

Next on the list, add Quilava. Vileplume and Hoothoot are still cards, which means that Item Lock is still a thing. Add two Quilava and drop one Rare Candy.

If I may, I just pulled up a list that I saw recently. I'll add it on here to give you an idea.

Pokémon - 12

2 Shaymin-EX ROS 106
4 Cyndaquil BKT 18
2 Quilava BKT 19
4 Typhlosion BKT 20

Trainer Cards - 24

4 N DEX 96
1 Super Rod BKT 149
3 Scorched Earth PRC 138
4 Skyla BKT 148
4 Rare Candy PLB 85
2 Energy Recycler AOR 72
4 Ultra Ball ROS 93
2 Level Ball NXD 89

Energy - 24

24 Fire Energy Energy 2

Total Cards - 60

The one who made this deck always loves making Budget decks like this. However, even he agreed that Shaymin is too good to help out, especially when needed in this list which is fairly tight due to the energy requirement. I know he said 4 Rare Candies on this list, but dropping one will really help out. Overall, if looking from this list alone, the things the drop would be a Rare Candy, and maybe a Scorched Earth. If you can't get the Shaymins, then that alone will fill up the slots needed for a 2-2 Octillery line. He also mentioned that even 24 Energy was a little low and thought about putting in another energy or two, which can be done by dropping an Ultra Ball (perfect if you're using Octillery instead). Overall, if I had to modify both of the lists to come up with one, here's what I would do:

Pokemon (14)
4-2-4 Typhlosion line (BKT)
2-2 Octillery Line (BKT)

Trainers (7Su, 2St, 14I) (23)
-3 N
-3 Skyla
-1 Lysandre
-3 VS Seeker
-2 Scorched Earth
-1 Super Rod
-2 Energy Recycler
-3 Rare Candy
-2 Level Ball
-3 Ultra Ball

Energy (25)
-25 Fire Energy

Total Cards: 62 (Need to drop 2)

Alright, so my list is still a little rough. Though, since he also avoided playing them, and you wasn't either, you can drop the VS Seekers. That drops the list down to 59 and you can add your choice of extra Supporter (N or Skyla), Item, (Ultra Ball, Super Rod, or Rare Candy), or Stadium (Scorched Earth).

I know the process of adding things like Trainer's Mail and Random Receivers is to help make the list more consistent. However, having played this deck (almost made a typo) myself, the only thing that needs to be made consistent is getting constant Massive Eruptions that can hit at least 3 energy each time, which is why this deck sacrifices consistency in other areas to make room for Energy.

And as you saw as I was typing this, I was typing this up as I was thinking it up as I try to show a bit of what thought process goes into this.
And in case you wanted to see what person who made the first list I showed was, here's a link to his Youtube Videos

(Typhlosion original when he was using 30 Energy Cards)
(Revised to add a couple new cards)
 
I trialled a Typhlosion deck a couple of weeks ago, which was 99% the same as the one cited in the videos above, and it was pretty hit and miss.

I would definitely remove the Talonflame because it has a high chance of being useless, because either: (a) you don't get it in your opening hand and it's pointless; (b) you do get it in your opening hand, use the attack to get the cards you want, and your opponent uses N before you can use them, rendering it pointless; or (c) it goes perfectly. Therefore there's a pretty high chance of it being pointless, however if you're just discarding cards from your deck anyway... it might not be that bad, but it could potentially be three more Fire Energies.

Adding Quilava is an absolute must because of the possibility item lock, but I found that adding Shaymin EX or Octillery wasn't massively effective because of the tendency to have a hand full of cards you can't get rid of (i.e. energy).

An additional thought is that seeing as discarding could lead to decking out, maybe replacing those Ultra Balls with Heavy Balls wouldn't be a bad idea, as you'd be able to get everything you need from the Level / Heavy combo (including the Octillery line should you choose to include it), although you then would have trouble reducing hand size.
 
Hi! Thx for all your replies and time.

I tried to use that 30 energy deck and, most of the time, i got a hand full of energy and a single Cyndaquil (And lots of mulligans), so definitely it isn't viable to use, i would say.

I tested that 24 energy deck (a few times) and the problem with too many starting energies remained, the first hand was half the time without any possibility to make a Typhlosion on my t2. With my deck (20 fire energies) i can set up to make 1 Typhlosion most of the time, and 2 Typhlosions soon some times. The problem with my deck is the lack of draw engine/power. After i get 1 or 2 typhlosion i can't make Typhlosion again later cuzz my deck don't have any kind of draw engine/support.

I noticed a problem with shaymin/octillery: The draws gets too many energies. So i had to assume that dekcs with HIGH number of energies would not work with draw engine cuzz it will always get the energies...

The Talonflame and skyla + random reciever helped to make one or two typhlosions in t2, but if i don't get a good kill streak i will end up loosing the game because i can't evolve again (cuzz i don't have a draw support/trainer cards again), but the weakness to "N" is too STRONG. Any Typhlosion deck suffers to N cuzz i need luck to get a new good hand.

I will try later the trainer line of the 24/25 energie deck, but with 21/22 energie instead, cuzz i can't afford to get too many energies on t1. Also the Quilava really is a MUST, so i will have to add 1 or 2 in my deck.

In my experience, 25 energy+ helps to get a 160/240 damage every attack, but the starting hand gets too many fire energies, so it is hard set up. The 20 Fire energies get a good set up most of the time, but it is harder to get 240 damage per attack, usually i get 240 or 160 per attack, but there was cases that i did zero damage (no energies discarded). And, with 160 hit damage usually, if it isnt a shaymin, normally get killed the next turn.

Talonflame would be a GREAT choice if wanst for "N". Every deck i try to build with stage 2 (and rare candies) suffers against that strong and popular "N". ;((((
 
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I think perhaps brock's grit and brigette are conspicuously missing from these lists. 2 brigette is really good. It is the preferred first turn support. Heavy Ball is a good inclusion, Brock has versatility in timing not offered by super rod and is superior to Karen since it can be used as energy recycler also. Skyla is a bit slow, but it and trainer's mail are the best way to hit cards you can play in a sea of energy. I think with 4 sycamore and 2 Shaymin you could run fewer energy and focus on thinning your deck then recycling before you try massive eruption. Shaymin is too good at this job.
More level ball would also help. The critical thing is to have multiple cyndaquil in play at the end of your first turn, otherwise Skyla is useless and slow. Heavy Ball is a nice option with skyla since it can be used withour discarding or late game if N shows up after you've raken prizes. I believe seeker is good to have so you can discard support with abandon to thin your deck.
Scorched Earth is also a no brainer even though it works slightly counter to the deck? But energy in hand cannot add to massive eruption so you might as well have the option to use it to help your setup early game.
Sorry for posting 6 months later. . . I am testing something now. If it works should O post a list?
 
fr33land said:
I think perhaps brock's grit and brigette are conspicuously missing from these lists. 2 brigette is really good. It is the preferred first turn support. Heavy Ball is a good inclusion, Brock has versatility in timing not offered by super rod and is superior to Karen since it can be used as energy recycler also. Skyla is a bit slow, but it and trainer's mail are the best way to hit cards you can play in a sea of energy. I think with 4 sycamore and 2 Shaymin you could run fewer energy and focus on thinning your deck then recycling before you try massive eruption. Shaymin is too good at this job.
More level ball would also help. The critical thing is to have multiple cyndaquil in play at the end of your first turn, otherwise Skyla is useless and slow. Heavy Ball is a nice option with skyla since it can be used withour discarding or late game if N shows up after you've raken prizes. I believe seeker is good to have so you can discard support with abandon to thin your deck.
Scorched Earth is also a no brainer even though it works slightly counter to the deck? But energy in hand cannot add to massive eruption so you might as well have the option to use it to help your setup early game.
Sorry for posting 6 months later. . . I am testing something now. If it works should O post a list?
Click to expand...

Sure! I would love to see it! :D
 
So I tried
4 talonflame
3-2-4 typhlosion

2 sycamore
2 N
1 brigette
1 skyla
1 teammates
1 brock's grit

4 vs seeker
4 rare candy
4 ultra ball
1 level ball
2 trainer's mail
2 energy recycler
2 super rod
20 basic fire

On talon flame starts it is awesome. On cyndaquil starts it almost always loses.
The thing is, even with a cyndaquil start I can get another in play turn 1, but almost always the active is donked. Early game you can only count on 160 damage from massive eruption, if you can survive till turn 3 or 4 the results become super consistent around 320. The reason it loses is the low cyndaquil count which I thought would make talinflame more reliable, but murphy's law says otherwise. The big thing is the deck doesn't reliably start rolling until a massive eruption discards that clutch supporter I want. Testing it mostly against brilliant arrow xerneas break, volcanion octillery and snorlax hypno Zoroark. It is losing a lot. Snorlax is thriving in a bubble without garbodor,but i digress.
 
I don't really know about this build but wouldn't houndoom ex BKP be good for this deck for the extra energy to help build up your typhlosion? And maybe a burning energy (if not rotated out I don't remember the set)
 
Houndoom EX's second attack is two typed energy. Ninetales EX might make a good alternate starter, using only a single energy it draws three cards and discards a fire energy to discard. No shortage of basic fire obviously. I really want talonflame to work though. It only gives one prize and lets me choose any two cards instead if drawing me into more basic fire energy. I think a small hand size is preferable since drawing inevitably takes basic fire out of the deck and reduces your odds of hitting a good massive eruption. Flare Destroy is a pretty sweet attack, but unless I have a commanding lead I don't want to commit the energy to a 150 hp pokemon that's weak to water. I would rather converve it and attach only a single enrgy to my attacker at the last moment and hopefully shuffle any extras back into my deck, or discard them early with a sycamore while I set up and recycle them for maximum pain and suffering mid to late game. Having absolutely no EX pokemon can increase my chances by prolonging the game as my opponent struggle to make 6 KO 's until massove eruption is 100 percent knockong everything out. Unfortunately, by that time there are a host of pokemon that are capable of hitting for 150 and one typhlosion is lucky to make consecutive knock outs (lucky to survive a revenge attack).
I kind of didn't include Lysandre because typhlosion can demolish any threat? But without a control card like it typhlosion isn't able to isolate and destroy threats.
Might drop the trainer's mail for 2 lysandre, but that card really rocks in this deck, I would rather go to a 4 count, add a lysandre and drop 3 other cards.
 
I use a Typhlosion deck online and in tournaments that uses the following:

2-Ninetales EX
4- Typhlosion
2-Quilava
4-Cyndaquil

4-rare candy
1-super rod
3 energy recyclers
1-evosoda
1-vs seeker
1-max potion
1-ultra ball
1-level ball
2-heavy balls
3-Skyla
2-Brigette
1-Judge
1-Misty Determination

23-Fire energies
3-burning energies

Starting with the Ninetales EX is key. It only needs 1 energy for the draw 3 card attack, you do have to discard a basic fire energy from your hand though. Retreat cost is only one, so you can retreat after the Typhlosion on the bench is ready and bring him up for massive eruption attack. I figure 3 Skylas works well along with 1 Misty's Determination instead of the 4 Skylas. Misty's Determination may get you the Pokemon, trainer card or energy you need for the current turn or next turn. I like having the 3 energy recyclers instead of two in case I discard any with massive eruption attack. The burning energies come in handy if you have to use the Flare Destroy attack later to keep from decking out.
The burning energies count as an energy if you discard them in the massive eruption attack.

Fishman6007
 
Fishman6007 said:
I use a Typhlosion deck online and in tournaments that uses the following:

2-Ninetales EX
4- Typhlosion
2-Quilava
4-Cyndaquil

4-rare candy
1-super rod
3 energy recyclers
1-evosoda
1-vs seeker
1-max potion
1-ultra ball
1-level ball
2-heavy balls
3-Skyla
2-Brigette
1-Judge
1-Misty Determination

23-Fire energies
3-burning energies

Starting with the Ninetales EX is key. It only needs 1 energy for the draw 3 card attack, you do have to discard a basic fire energy from your hand though. Retreat cost is only one, so you can retreat after the Typhlosion on the bench is ready and bring him up for massive eruption attack. I figure 3 Skylas works well along with 1 Misty's Determination instead of the 4 Skylas. Misty's Determination may get you the Pokemon, trainer card or energy you need for the current turn or next turn. I like having the 3 energy recyclers instead of two in case I discard any with massive eruption attack. The burning energies come in handy if you have to use the Flare Destroy attack later to keep from decking out.
The burning energies count as an energy if you discard them in the massive eruption attack.

Fishman6007
Click to expand...

This was my first Typhlosion build. Eventually, i found out that it wasn't that good, so i ended up making a new one, that you can see here:
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/threads/typhlosion-talonflame-mew-ex.139123/

4 Talonflames was added. If you start with it, you are done. Just hope for no "N" in that turn and you have good chances of KOing the opponent. Talonflame is the KEY that allows Typhlosion deck to work.
Also, Mew-Ex was added cuzz it makes easier to set up (You only need 1 Typhlosion benched and 1 Mew, instead 2 typhlosions...), ALSO, Typhlosion without MEW-EX auto loses to Glaceon-Ex, Mew-Ex is a way i found out online to bypass Glaceon.

I never tried Ninetales, but i don't think draw 3 cards will help this deck, usually you will get 2 energies on that draw. Choosing 2 cards from the deck (Talonflame attack) is way better, in my opinion.
___

Talonflame/Typhlosion is the most viable Typhlosion deck in standard. I'm surprised for how many times it worked playing online.
 
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I have a suggestion for a very cheap version of this deck. One of the main things I'm confused about is why nobody runs Infernape with this!

Pokemon - 18
3x Chimchar
2x Monferno
3x Infernape (all SS)
3x Cyndaquil
2x Quilava
3x Typhlosion (all BKT)
2x Talonflame (SS)

Trainers - 12
4x Rare Candy
4x Skyla
2x VS Seeker
2x Super Rod

Energy - 30
30x Fire Energy

I'm pretty sure the idea of Infernape in this is obvious.
 
Marowhacker said:
I have a suggestion for a very cheap version of this deck. One of the main things I'm confused about is why nobody runs Infernape with this!

Pokemon - 18
3x Chimchar
2x Monferno
3x Infernape (all SS)
3x Cyndaquil
2x Quilava
3x Typhlosion (all BKT)
2x Talonflame (SS)

Trainers - 12
4x Rare Candy
4x Skyla
2x VS Seeker
2x Super Rod

Energy - 30
30x Fire Energy

I'm pretty sure the idea of Infernape in this is obvious.
Click to expand...
The problem with Infernape is that adding its line makes the deck WAY too clunky. I would cut that line and around 6 energy for more trainers.
 
Blakers said:
The problem with Infernape is that adding its line makes the deck WAY too clunky. I would cut that line and around 6 energy for more trainers.
Click to expand...
That's true, however Flare Up can be used pretty often since Typhlosion will be permanently discarding energy. Perhaps add some float stones to the deck?
 
I think the Talonflames are a good call but you need another decent starter. Try Entei from Ancient Origins with the Double Tool Trait you can put a fighting fury belt on it, though your deck doesn't need it, or a float stone, or choice band when it comes out next set, and it'll be a decent bruiser for the game. You definitely need Energy Recycler or Brocks Grit in this deck though, that way you can get away with 20-24 energies. I'd run it:

Pokemon- 16
Talonflame-4
Typhlosion- 4/2/4
Entei- 2

Scorched Earth= 1

Items= 15
Ultra Ball- 3
Rare Candy- 3
Vs Seeker- 3
Float Stone- 2
Choice Band- 3
Energy Recycler- 1

Supporters= 7
N- 3
Bridgette- 2
Brocks Grit- 1
Lysandre- 1
Skyla or Teammates- 1

Fire Energy= 20

Cool deck, have fun!
 
I like all the modifications to decks that people have been mentioning. I will leave my deck as stated above except I will take out the 2 Ninetales Exs, and 1 fire energy and add 3 Talonflames. I'll try 5 battles online with my original Typhlosion deck (Ninetales Ex) and 5 with the modified one (Talonflame) and see which gives me better results. I will report back tomorrow with my match outcomes. If you play online, feel free to add me as a friend. Fishman6007
 
I played the Typhlosion/TalonFlame deck 5 times last night and won 4 and lost 1. I only started with Talon Flame once though. I was 3 and 2 with my Typhlosion/Ninetales Ex deck. I think I like the Talon Flame/Typhlosion better because the chance to start with TaloneFlame gives you that extra fast start to get your bench ready.
 
The thing with Talonflame is that if you don't start it, you can simply use it as discard fodder for Ultra Ball etc. Starting it is only sweeter, especially in a deck that begs for consistent search engines that don't require too much space. It falls along the same ideology of playing Talonflame in things like Aerodactyl or Greninja BREAK. If you start it, you gain a nice advantage of A. Search Power and B. A starter that you can simply sit on for a while. If not, then you have free fodder for discard and whatnot.

When it comes to this deck, you should run Talonflame. The deck is incredibly fickle draw-wise because you're naturally running 25-30 Fire Energy and no Battle Compressor (unless you're playing an Expanded version of this deck), and so you will need some form of search to think your deck to maximize all sorts of things (obtaining a consistent Typhlosion line on time, increasing the chances of hitting Fire Energy with its attack, etc.). Talonflame helps with all that.

I'm going to say that I feel like this deck would run better in Expanded, simply because Battle Compressor is such a good card for strategies like this. Then again, I suppose that's besides the point... Oh well.

-Asmer
 
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