Ruling Turtonator vs. Tapu Bulu card ruling help?

tothrules

tothrules

Aspiring Trainer
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I was playing a battle with my Volcanion / Turtonator deck against a Luranits / Tapu Bulu deck. I had a Turtonator GX in the active slot that had just used the Shell Trap attack, dealing 80 back to the opponent if attacked. My Turtonator had 40 damage on it (150 health remaining). My opponent moved a Tapu Bulu into the active with 130 damage on it (50 health remaining). He used the Tapu Wilderness GX attack which does 150 damage and "Heal all damage from this Pokémon".

The question we have is what would be the proper ruling on this particular situation?
  • Would the Shell Trap take effect immediately and knock out Tapu Bulu, resulting in a double knock out?
  • Would the Tapu Wilderness attack full heal all damage, even the 8 returning from Shell Trap and have no damage on it?
  • Would the Tapu attack work, heal the 130 damage, then get the 8 returning counters after the knockout to Turtonator?
 
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Healing first, then the 80 damage. It functions similarly to Bursting Balloon. Below is the explanation of BB and another attack that healed. Unless we get a separate ruling this is what I would recommend going by. So the order of operations is Bulu attacks, attack resolves damage+effects so 150 done to Turtonator and healing to Bulu, Shell Trap triggers damaging Bulu, attack step complete so check for KO.

Compendium link: http://compendium.pokegym.net/compendium-bw.html

Q. If you use Umbreon's "Shadow Drain" attack against a Pokemon with {D} weakness and a Bursting Balloon attached, what are the correct order of operations for placing and healing damage?
A. Umbreon's healing effect takes place within the context of the attack, so healing has to be completed before the attack is finished. Since Bursting Balloon is triggered by damage and you can't interrupt the attack's other effect (healing) to place those damage counters, you would heal Umbreon first and then place the damage counters for Bursting Balloon. (Jun 9, 2016 TPCi Rules Team)

For reference, Shadow Drain says "Heal from this Pokémon the same amount of damage you did to the Defending Pokémon." (Umbreon: Dark Explorers 60/108)
 
TheGuardian118 said:
Healing first, then the 80 damage. It functions similarly to Bursting Balloon. Below is the explanation of BB and another attack that healed. Unless we get a separate ruling this is what I would recommend going by. So the order of operations is Bulu attacks, attack resolves damage+effects so 150 done to Turtonator and healing to Bulu, Shell Trap triggers damaging Bulu, attack step complete so check for KO.

Compendium link: http://compendium.pokegym.net/compendium-bw.html

Q. If you use Umbreon's "Shadow Drain" attack against a Pokemon with {D} weakness and a Bursting Balloon attached, what are the correct order of operations for placing and healing damage?
A. Umbreon's healing effect takes place within the context of the attack, so healing has to be completed before the attack is finished. Since Bursting Balloon is triggered by damage and you can't interrupt the attack's other effect (healing) to place those damage counters, you would heal Umbreon first and then place the damage counters for Bursting Balloon. (Jun 9, 2016 TPCi Rules Team)

For reference, Shadow Drain says "Heal from this Pokémon the same amount of damage you did to the Defending Pokémon." (Umbreon: Dark Explorers 60/108)
Click to expand...

Along these lines though, I am pretty sure that if you use Umbreon GX's Strafe attack to attack into a Turtonator, the switch with the bench pokemon happens first and the Turtonator "bursting balloon" effect doesn't happen.
 
The effect would still happen. Shell Trap says "During your opponent's next turn, if this Pokémon is damaged by an attack (Even if this Pokémon is Knocked Out) put 8 damage counters on the attacking Pokémon." (Note it does not say active, emphasis mine) Bursting Balloon is worded similarly. Nowhere does it say that the attacking Pokémon has to remain in the active slot, just that the attack had to have done damage. As long as the attacking Pokémon is still in play it can receive the damage.

However, things that discard, shuffle to deck, or send the attacking Pokémon to hand would avoid the damage, the most common example being Shaymin EX's Sky Return attack. By the time the effect is triggered, the attacking Pokémon is no longer in play as it leaves play as an effect of the attack and before KO is checked.
 
I want to know if Benching it removes the effect of Shell Trap. I want to know if this works like Pidgeot's Mirror Move, which will always be active.
 
mirror move is a game state check, was Pidgeot EX in play last turn, yes/no, was it damaged by an attack last turn, yes/no, if yes to both deal damage back.

trap shell on the other hand places an effect on itself and thus is removed by benching/evolution/devolution/pokemon ranger and other things that remove effects.
 
treyh37 said:
mirror move is a game state check, was Pidgeot EX in play last turn, yes/no, was it damaged by an attack last turn, yes/no, if yes to both deal damage back.

trap shell on the other hand places an effect on itself and thus is removed by benching/evolution/devolution/pokemon ranger and other things that remove effects.
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking so if I were to Mach Cyclone and force it back to the Bench then I won't take the eight damage counters.
 
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