The Return of Empoleon?

C

Card Slinger J

Aspiring Trainer
Member
What Primal Clash has in store for water might actually help Empoleon become competitive again despite Raichu being able to easily one shot it with Circle Circuit with Garbodor and Wobbuffet shutting down Diving Draw it shouldn't be too much of an issue with Lysandre in the format especially when Donphan and Landorus helps keep Raichu in check thanks to the support that fighting got in Furious Fists.

Archie's Trump Card helps you get Empoleon out from your discard pile (granted it's the only Supporter you have in hand when playing it) without having to devote playing Rare Candy on Piplup just to get it out while Dive Ball makes up for the loss of Level Ball from the last rotation but the best card of all is Undulating Ocean which helps give Empoleon some longevity in being able to score prizes with Attack Command. Teammates (functional reprint of Twins from HGSS block) I could see being used as a replacement for Skyla by getting two cards for the price of one.

I'm aware that Blaziken is the better play when it comes to Stage 2's in this format since it doesn't have to worry about getting shutdown by Garbodor however it loses to Enhanced Hammer due to relying a lot on DCE for getting off Burning Shot even though most players view Blaziken as a subpar Charizard/Pyroar. Anyway here are the translations for the Primal Clash cards that could potentially help Empoleon even though his time in Standard is short lived at the moment:

Archie’s Trump Card - Trainer
Supporter

You can only play this card if it's the only card in your hand.

Put a [W] Pokemon from your discard pile onto your Bench, then draw 5 cards. (Note: Yes, you can play /any/ [W] Pokemon to your Bench. It doesn't say Basic Pokemon. It only says [W] Pokemon.)

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).

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Dive Ball - Trainer
Item

Search your deck for a [W] Pokemon and put it into your hand.

You may play as many Item cards as you like during your turn (before your attack).

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Undulating Ocean - Trainer
Stadium

Once during each player's turn, he or she may heal 30 damage from each of his or her [W] and [L] Pokemon.

This card stays in play when you play it. Discard this card if another Stadium card comes into play. If another card with the same name is in play, you can’t play this card.

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Teammates - Trainer
Supporter

This card can't be played unless any of your Pokemon were Knocked Out during your opponent's last turn.

Search your deck for up to 2 cards and put them into your hand. Shuffle your deck afterwards.

You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).
 
I definitely agree with you here. Empoleon should be very solid come next format. Dive Ball and Teammates are really strong in this deck. They should allow you to consistently get Empoleons out by turn 2-3, and set up your next Empoleons very easily. Even if your opponent is using Seismitoad, Teammates should be enough to get your Empoleon set up by turn 3. Undulating Ocean also seems like it would help against Seismitoad, since it needs to use a lot of Quaking Punches to knock out Empoleon, especially if Virbank isn't in play.

Archie seems alright, but unfortunately I feel like Empoleon will never be able to lower its hand down to 1 card. There's too many Supporters and Evolutions and Rare Candies, and the deck will play less Ultra Ball due to Dive Ball. I might play 1 Archie, but that's about it.

Another card to consider in this deck is Swampert. Using Diving Search, followed by a Diving Draw can get you any card in your deck instantly. It's easily searchable by Dive Ball, and if you're really desperate, Hydro Pump can clean up some games that Empoleon can't. Due to the tight space, I think a 2-1-2 Swampert should be a decent number, but you might want to increase it if you really need that extra search power.
 
Come next format? Only If Plasma Freeze doesn't get rotated out unless the 2015-2016 Standard/Modified Season ends up being XY-On.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Come next format? Only If Plasma Freeze doesn't get rotated out unless the 2015-2016 Standard/Modified Season ends up being XY-On.
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I think that we are talking about when Primal Clash comes out. :p
 
Empoleon still will have some hurdles to face.

-Silent Lab. In combination with Ninetales GV, it's possible to be locked out of Exeggcutes for the entire game.

-With Fighting Types slowly getting nerfed with the releases of Enhanced Hammer, and the new uprising of Water Types to counter Donphan and Landorus-EX, I think that Lightning Types are slowly getting better. Empoleon especially struggles against Manectric-EX, which can OHKO it with Assault Laser if either Pokemon has a Muscle Band attached.

-Even though Stage 2's have been slowly getting better, I still think that Empoleon struggles a bit because it's damage caps at just 120, unlike Swampert which can hit for an infinite amount.
 
Empoleon is good this format what are y'all talking about. Also it needs Dusknoir to work. Undulating Ocean is bad.
 
grantm1999 said:
Empoleon is good this format what are y'all talking about. Also it needs Dusknoir to work. Undulating Ocean is bad.
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What Grant meant to say is Empoleon is god when it is not playing against Manectric EX.
 
Theoretically M Manectric rolls this deck. Regular Manectric isn't too harsh, just don't attach muscle band.
 
I think Manectric will be a problem but how many decks run it? And in that case can't you just use mainly miltank. And I also think aromatisse will cause some problems because of max potion. What could we do about that?
 
Aviste said:
I think Manectric will be a problem but how many decks run it? And in that case can't you just use mainly miltank. And I also think aromatisse will cause some problems because of max potion. What could we do about that?
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Against Aromatisse you have to kill their Aromatisse with Lysandre or Dusknoir.

Miltank doesn't turn the Manectric matchup and in all honesty doesn't help against much else.
 
Against max potion. All you have to do is spread damage around when you get a chance. But i also agree that the new Undulating Ocean is just terrible for this deck. With water coming back. That stadium is going to hurt you more than help you. Any stadium that heals or increases hp is going to be terrible for this deck. Probably just run mountain ring or something just as a counter stadium.
 
Kyogre and swampert are not even out yet so yeah right now emploeon is better. And when those cards do come out we dont know what decks will start to be good and what ones will no longer be played.
 
Camoclone said:
Aviste said:
What tier would this deck be then?
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Rogue...
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Rogue meaning any Stage 2 deck that could've had potential to be competitive is now easily outclassed by Basic EX's to make any real difference in the current format where as Rogue used to be defined by decks that took advantage of the element of surprise by not netdecking off of what everyone else is running at the time while still making top cut with it.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Camoclone said:
Rogue...
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Rogue meaning any Stage 2 deck that could've had potential to be competitive is now easily outclassed by Basic EX's to make any real difference in the current format where as Rogue used to be defined by decks that took advantage of the element of surprise by not netdecking off of what everyone else is running at the time while still making top cut with it.
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There are plenty of non-ex competitive decks rn. I mean I could say that in previous formats all basic based decks were outclassed by evolutions. It's all in perspective
 
I think that this deck really did make a comeback especially with the way I run my deck. I use mostly item draw instead of supporters so I get my hand down to a lower size allowing the Archie use. I feel that you should still run a few ultra balls because duskinoir and the discarding is nice. I also added one trump card so I can get energy back and avoid decking out. Especially with how much I discard lol.
 
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