Discussion The future of Zacian V

jamashawalker

Ikouze!
Member
Throughout it's existence Zacian V has been a staple in the SwSh metagame. It has an amazing ability, great attack, and good energy acceleration to boast. This card has always been THE card to compare to when talking about other attacking pokemon. Any V pokemon that has a metal weakness symbol was already a bad card because of how popular Zacian is. It has always been a tier 1 dominating card.


But something caught my eye the other day which made me question the future of it's placement in the metagame coming Post Rotation. It's always been dominating thanks to the tools and metagame of the Sun and Moon era. Here's a list of reason why I believe it may not see as much usage coming post rotation


1.) No ADP nor LucMetal. For the past couple of metagames, it has always had to be partnered with these two pokemon to see success. Both which are rotating out. Bronzong may see play with it, but it doesn't do much for it compared to ADP and LucMetal


2.) The game will be slower/reliance on Metal Saucer. Playing with and against ADPZ, I can say that I have dug through my deck when I had no energy on the field, digging for 2 metal saucers+energy attachment per turn. Dedenne+Crobat+Research. This allows you to see over a third of your deck in one turn. While this is still doable post rotation, it won't be as easy to consistently dig for them every turn without Dedenne and limited searching options. (no cherish ball) Most of the time Mawile GX is better because it only needs 1 metal saucer and can attach any energy, but that's rotating as well.


3.) A more focused VMAX metagame. Hitting 230 in a VMAX metagame is great but it's very difficult to chain per turn. 230 damage is also great against opposing V pokemon. You can get the early drop on an evolving V, after that you have to go through a 320 HP pokemon. With ADP you just always gusted around them and take more prizes anyways. That strategy won't be a thing. You can do some extreme combos to hit the 320 bench mark. At that point in time, you're putting alot of effort into a pokemon that others can do easier.


4.) It's mediocre HP. Weird to say 220 is "mediocre" but most VMAXs are hitting those numbers with ease. You are playing the 2HKO game, but also Cheryl exists. One Cheryl can almost ruin the entire game with Zacian V. It may have to run HP boosting tools like Toughness Cape. Then again I also see Tool Scrapper being much more prominent


5.) Path to the Peak. Preventing Zacian from using turn 1 intrepred sword is HUGE. Also it allows other VMAX pokemon to bypass Zamazenta from walling them. Zacian will have to run counter stadiums if it wants to see success since it can no longer rely on chaotic swell.


6.) Victini V/VMAX. This card will be so good come post rotation that it doesn't care if Zacian V runs Coating Metal Energy. It's better and easier to attack with than Zacian V.


7.) Zamazenta not being a reliable partner. Escape rope, boss, path to the peak, Phoebe. Zamazenta's walling abilities will be greatly nerfed with all the options pokemon will have to get through it


There's more to say but I'll just leave there. This isn't saying Zacian V will be bad post rotation. There are still many ways to play it. Zacian +Perserker, Zacian+Bannette, Zacian+Corviknight+Bronzong with possible more strategies. I do want to point out that, I don't believe Zacian will be a tier 1 deck going forward like it is now with ADP. I believe we should all look at cards coming out in the later set without going "O it's weak to metal, bad card" Also other V cards have a better chance of being played. Looking at some examples Single Strike Urshifu V, Dragonite V, probably some other electric type Vs that weren't that good due to being overshadowed by Pikarom.


So yeah.....Any thoughts on Zacian V's placement in post rotation metagame? Do you think it will stay a dominant threat in the metagame? Should we look at metal weak pokemon as being a viable strategy now instead of an immediate dissmal due to weakness?
 

fawfulmark2

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I'm coming back from a long hiatus myself so I can't fully speak for the competitive environment, but I do wonder about your case involving Victini V(MAX): after all rotation is going to be hurting that little guy too, since just like with Zacian it too will lose it's reliable digging option with Dedenne as well as nearly all of it's supporter mons due to being GX cards(Heatran, Resh & Zard, the Mews etc.) and most critically of all Welder.
 

Charmaster:)

Collecting, playing, & making family memories.
Member
I'm coming back from a long hiatus myself so I can't fully speak for the competitive environment, but I do wonder about your case involving Victini V(MAX): after all rotation is going to be hurting that little guy too, since just like with Zacian it too will lose it's reliable digging option with Dedenne as well as nearly all of it's supporter mons due to being GX cards(Heatran, Resh & Zard, the Mews etc.) and most critically of all Welder.
For one thing, EVERY deck will lose Dedenne GX. For another thing, Victini’s claim to fame (well, other than being a wall for Pokémon V/MAX) is that it is the Welder deck that doesn’t NEED Welder. It doesn’t want you to ramp Energy onto it like with Centiskorch VMAX. It doesn’t want you to charge a new attacker every turn like Blacephalon. It doesn’t need four Energy per attacker like both of the Charizard Tag Teams. All a Victini VMAX wants to attack is two Fire Energy. Sure, you want to have two, or even three, Victini VMAX in play, but the incentive to play Victini VMAX is strong enough that people will play it anyways.
 

Charmaster:)

Collecting, playing, & making family memories.
Member
https://www.pokebeach.com/forums/th...-broken-card-be-good-for-the-metagame.152330/
This is another interesting thread written on a similar topic... this one also concerning the state of the next years format and whether or not it will be more balanced than this years format. I think Victini VMAX and Rayquaza VMAX are BOTH going to play key roles in shifting the focus of next year’s format to a format where VMAXs, Vs, and even single prize Pokémon are able to play key roles in the meta, and where the absence of ADP and the weakening of Zacian V will add to this state of balance.
 

jamashawalker

Ikouze!
Member
I'm coming back from a long hiatus myself so I can't fully speak for the competitive environment, but I do wonder about your case involving Victini V(MAX): after all rotation is going to be hurting that little guy too, since just like with Zacian it too will lose it's reliable digging option with Dedenne as well as nearly all of it's supporter mons due to being GX cards(Heatran, Resh & Zard, the Mews etc.) and most critically of all Welder.

Charmaster already made points on it, I'm going to add more on the subject of Victini V

Right now Victini V is struggling because Tag Teams are still extremely relevant in the format. Hence why we see it paired with other supporter mons+Welder. Once Tag teams have rotated out and Victini will have easier targets with only V pokemon and the rare single prize attackers. Also not having to worry about welder nor other support pokemon, means victini can focus on being more consistent by adding in more supporters and different support pokemon. Even running a path to the peak build if it wanted to.

Speaking of Path to the Peak, this card is doing ALOT better than we expected. It's basically forcing people who run abilities to run multiple chaotic swells or multiple Marshadows(both of which will rotate)
 

Serperior

464/500
Advanced Member
Member
Staring at a T1 Peak going second hurts for Zacian, but I reckon that Zacian pilots will look to up their Stadium counts (as Marshadow will rotate) and increase their raw draw Supporter lines to combat this. I could see a straight Zacian deck that takes one turn to Intrepid Sword, power up one Zacian to attack on T2, and then chain Brave Blades through Saucers and manual attachments for the rest of the game. It'd be worth including a single-Prizer in there to force a seven Prize game, but none come to mind just thinking about it. Galarian Stunfisk? Idk
 
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