Snowden Leaks - Government

PDC

PDC

The PDC Show comes to an abrupt end...
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Well gosh darn pdc you made a thread about hating the government how unusual this is of you.

Yes, we all know this was a long time coming, sorry that I didn't make this earlier. The main point of discussion is, where do you stand on this? Do you think these leaks were of patriotic benefit or just to damage the United States? I believe he is a hero, not a villain as the media portrays him as. Not like the government spying shocks me, we all knew this was going on, but does it bring up any privacy issues?
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

Well since our government and the media are in bed together, I tend to believe the opposite of what the news is telling me regarding stories like this. I think Snowden did this for the American people, to open the eyes of people who are still in the dark concerning government spying. Here's an excerpt from an interview with Snowden: "I don't want to live in a world where everything I say, everything I do, everyone I talk to, every expression of creativity, or love, or friendship, is recorded... so I think anyone who opposes that sort of world has an obligation to act." He acted, very recklessly at that, to show the American people just how far their government was going to spy on civilians. I wouldn't hail him as high as a hero, but I don't think he's a traitor.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

I don't really care for it. I'm just wondering why they're catching him before patching up what he did.
And besides, what crimes did he commit, anyway?
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

He leaked strictly confidential information. Truthfully, he needs to get his ass back over here and face the consequences. I do not agree, nor do I disagree with what he did, but it is classified as treason. If he was a true hero, he would get back here, and stand up to the government, and he would accept whatever penalty is issued.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

I hate these news threads with no links/articles provided.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

This would be classified as treason but who gives a thought about that. What he did was courageous and good for the people and I hate how the media is "in bed together" with the government.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

One thing I don't understand about the Government..

They are also accusing him of espionage.

When I look in my dictionary it says that espionage is the act of gathering intelligence on one country/person, then passing it onto their enemies....

So are we, the American People, considered enemies?
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

I didn't know one could be accused of treason for providing information concerning the USA government's questionable practices to its own people, American citizens.

The only reason Snowden would get convicted of treason for his actions is to discourage future potential whistleblowers from disclosing such practices.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

StormCloudsGathering did a wonderful article on this.

http://stormcloudsgathering.com/the-snowden-case-what-youre-not-being-told

What I find the most interesting part:

StormCloudsGathering said:
Now for those who call him a hero… I don't want to burst your bubble here, but I think a bit more skepticism is order. Really, no offense intended, but none of this information was new. This plays both ways. On one hand since we already had mainstream reports of the NSA domestic spying program that was underway years ago, it's ridiculous to claim that he actually committed a crime by leaking the information, but by the same token it doesn't really make sense to call him a hero for telling us something that anyone could have found out with just a few minutes effort on Google.

Seriously if you think that I'm exaggerating go to google and do a search for NSA domestic spying and set the date range to any year between 2002 and the present particularly between 2006 and 2012. If you do you'll find tons of this information. For example this one from 2006, this one from 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and there are countless others. I'm just showing these to make the point that this information has been available consistently for years.

...

2006: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/04/70619
2007: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/interviews/klein.html
2008: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120511973377523845.html
2009: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/06/more-nyt-nsas-domest
2010: http://boingboing.net/2010/03/31/nsas-domestic-spying.html
2011: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/new-yorker-on-thomas-drake/
2012: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232233/US_Supreme_Court_refuses_to_hear_NSA_AT_amp_T_wiretapping_case
These are just a fraction of the articles available.
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There isn't much information leaked as is was already publicly available. One single detail the article fails to mention, though, is why the US government ''didn't know'' about this already available information. You would think they would at least google it before accusing him of leaking private information? Did they just pretend this information didn't exist, rushed, and made a very sloppy accusation? Even if it was to cover up something else, it is in every possible way a deceitful move by the government.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

I think he's a hero. I'm not ever from the US. If the Canadian government was doing something of the similar, I'd be thrilled for a person to out them on it. Heck I'd even help him if I could. Maybe he is telling us stuff we know, but beforehand, a lot of it was simply speculation that made sense. At least this is cold hard evidence that yes, they do spy on your guys and heck, they spy on other countries.

Now, he is only, as far as I know, being called a treasonous person because he reported the fact that the US was spying on China by computer hacking to the Chinese government when he went over there. He did the same over in Russia, and treason or not, he has my full respect for it.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

He is a traitor and broke his NDA. He needs to suffer and accept whatever consequences come his way. To run off as such like a coward shows he is no hero, and never will be.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

Espionage is one of his charges, though. Explain how that is a credible charge on the grounds that there isn't any proof that he gave info to other countries.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

I'm pretty messed up right now... but from the limited understanding at the moment (reddit gave a super awesome recipe for something)..this is what i have gathered.

Yes its wiki, but it was the quickest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

It made it a crime:

To convey information with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the armed forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies. This was punishable by death or by imprisonment for not more than 30 years or both.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_armed_forces
The United States Armed Forces[N 1] are the military forces of the United States of America. They consist of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, and Coast Guard.[6] The U.S. has a strong tradition of civilian control of the military. The President of the United States is the military's overall head, and helps form military policy with the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD), a federal executive department, acting as the principal organ by which military policy is carried out.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense

The Department – headed by the Secretary of Defense – has three subordinate military departments: the U.S. Department of the Army, the U.S. Department of the Navy, and the U.S. Department of the Air Force. In addition, there are many Defense Agencies such as the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), the National Security Agency (NSA), the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA), the Missile Defense Agency, and the Pentagon Force Protection Agency (PFPA), all of which are under the command of the Secretary of Defense. DoD also operates several joint services schools, including the National Defense University (NDU) and the National War College (NWC).
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For outside people, aka civilians, this chain, is basically...the chain of command. One thing will lead to the next, leading to the top. There are loops and whatnot, but everyone reports to someone. So yes, what he did was espionage, treason and he should face everything ahead of his life.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

Well, there is the politician's definition of espionage, and the actual definition.
Yes, he should come back and face the charge of treason, but will he?
Nope.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

Haunted Water said:
Well, there is the politician's definition of espionage, and the actual definition.
Yes, he should come back and face the charge of treason, but will he?
Nope.
Click to expand...

And this, my friends here, is what makes him a coward, a traitor to his country for breaking his NDA (i approve of him wanting to share info, but not the way he did), and all around make believe hero.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

So him outing the government like this is treason and espionage how?

This doesn't seem real. hmmm
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

SheNinja said:
So him outing the government like this is treason and espionage how?

This doesn't seem real. hmmm
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When he volunteered to work with the NSA, he signed a contract stating he would NOT under any circumstances release any TS material. He broke that contract. Any time any individual releases ANY type of TS material to the public, it is an act of treason. This is explained to every person who obtains a TS and above clearance.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

So what would the possible sentence be if he is convicted in USA for these charges?
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

SheNinja said:
So what would the possible sentence be if he is convicted in USA for these charges?
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Life imprisonment. The most severe he could receive would be the death penalty.

Thats the standard sentence for treason.
 
RE: Snowden Leaks - Scumbag Government

To convey information with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the armed forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies. This was punishable by death or by imprisonment for not more than 30 years or both.


Is the key phrase here not "intent to interfere" ? Snowden himself did not do anything to try to end NSA, he just exposed it.
 
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