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Expanded Semi-casual Lapras VMAX deck: advise needed.

Discussion in 'PTCG Deck Garage' started by Charmaster:), Mar 31, 2021.

  1. Charmaster:) The Cube Master, Charmander fan, & Lapras rider.
    Charmaster:)

    Member

    1. Lapras VMAX SWSH
    2. Lapras VMAX SWSH
    3. Lapras VMAX SWSH
    4. Lapras V SWSH
    5. Lapras V SWSH
    6. Lapras V SWSH
    7. Lapras V SWSH
    8. Frosmoth SWSH
    9. Frosmoth SWSH
    10. Snom SWSH
    11. Snom SWSH
    12. Snom SWSH
    13. Quagsire DRM
    14. Quagsire DRM
    15. Wooper DRM
    16. Wooper DRM
    17. Ditto Prism Star LOT
    18. Volcanion Prism Star FLI
    19. Lapras GX SUM
    20. Palkia GX UPR
    21. Professor’s Research SWSH
    22. Professor’s Research SWSH
    23. Marnie SWSH
    24. Marnie SWSH
    25. Melony SS6
    26. Melony SS6
    27. Melony SS6
    28. Water Bucket RCL
    29. Water Bucket RCL
    30. Water Bucket RCL
    31. Nessa VIV
    32. Nessa VIV
    33. Cheryl SS5
    34. Cheryl SS5
    35. Cheryl SS5
    36. Cheryl SS5
    37. Nest Ball SUM
    38. Nest Ball SUM
    39. Evolution Incense SWSH
    40. Evolution Incense SWSH
    41. Pokémon Communications TEU
    42. Pokémon Communications TEU
    43. Pal Pad SWSH
    44. Pal Pad SWSH
    45. Float Stone BKT
    46. Float Stone BKT
    47. Cyrus Prism Star UPR
    48. Water Energy
    49. Water Energy
    50. Water Energy
    51. Water Energy
    52. Water Energy
    53. Water Energy
    54. Water Energy
    55. Water Energy
    56. Water Energy
    57. Water Energy
    58. Water Energy
    59. Wash Water Energy VIV
    60. Wash Water Energy VIV

    I put this deck together mainly for the fun of using it against my brother, but as we are used to using top-tier decks I want to design this as best as possible in order to compete with decks like LucMetal and Dragapult VMAX. I feel like the numbers for the evolution lines and key trainer cards might be off, so if anyone has advise on how I can improve this list, that would be great. Regardless, I will be extensively play-testing this deck with proxies before I even consider buying any actual cards.
    EDIT: just to clarify, the strategy behind this deck is to get Lapras VMAX in the active and attacking and to use Frosmoth + Quagsire to get as many Energy onto Lapras VMAX as possible to maximize its attack strength, then moving those Energy off of Lapras VMAX with Quagsire to use Cheryl. Techs include Lapras GX, whose collect attack can be extremely useful in the early game and whose GX attack earns a name for itself with guaranteed paralysis. Palkia GX exists to make your opponent’s life miserable by shuffling all your opponent’s Energy back into the deck with its GX attack. Volcanion Prism Star has a powerful gust effect that is more reliable than Boss’s Orders. And Cyrus Prism Star allows you to do away with two of your opponent’s benched Pokémon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021


  2. ADP Big Rat 212/???
    ADP Big Rat

    Member

    Volcanion Prism Star's Ability is NOT gust. Your opponent chooses what they send up, so it's effectively a Phione that costs an Energy. Now, one of many numerous problems with this list stems from the fact that you built a Standard deck, and put a couple Expanded cards in, rather than really looking at the whole Expanded cardpool to build around. While I don't have a list to give you, I can give you some very very helpful advice with certain cards that would be very good here.

    Acerola - Cheryl but outright better, and doesn't require Quag to be in play

    Keldeo EX - Spare attacker that allows you to put Lapras on the bench (because of Rush In) for Frosmoth to accelerate to it. On the off chance that you ever hit Deci or Altaria, Keldeo can also swing because it isn't a GX or V.

    VS Seeker - Outright better in Pal Pad in every scenario ever. This card is a 4-of staple in basically everything and it's for a good reason.

    Ultra Ball - Gets all of your mons, better than Evo Incense or Comm

    Quick Ball - You should be playing draw support mons anyway, so these should be directly replacing Nest Balls

    Superior Energy Retrieval - Nessa is very bad, this gets 4 Energy back as an item, which is always strictly better than running a supporter for the same effect. Same goes for Melony. Melony is unplayable dog water garbage. Same rule applies where you get way more effectiveness out of an item than you do burning your Supporter for turn for very little effect.

    Tapu Lele-GX/Crobat V/Dedenne-GX - Draw support Pokemon have had a crucial role in the TCG for years (even long before Black and White) and this rogue deck is no different. You simply need to draw more cards if you want to consistently set up an win. From the competitive player POV, if I hit this deck in any tournament, my first thought is that it's a free win due to general inconsistency and lack of draw power. You should probably play at least one of each of these, but mixing and matching counts to how you like is fine, just anything more than 0.

    N - Better card than Marnie, and on the topic of draw support, Research counts should be 3-4 for the same reason you need to be playing draw support Pokemon- because you need to find them. What's the point of playing Lapras if you're going to struggle drawing into pieces early into the game to blow something up? If you're not getting into the 240+ range with little effort on the second or third turn of the game (while you're opponent is attacking mind you) then why even play Lapras over another Water type V Max like Inteleon?

    Guzma - Since I already explained that Volcanion's Ability is not a gusting effect, you do need gust. However, Guzma is better than Boss because the additional benefit of allowing you to switch makes it an overall better card due to how much more versatile it is.

    Cut Lapras GX. Collect is a terrible attack and Ice Beam GX certainly has not made a name for itself as a decent attack, because Guzma is so prevalent in Expanded, the Paralysis will never stick. And even when it does, you likely can't even capitalize on it because in order to paralyze, you just had to put 2 prizes on the board for your opponent to take for free. Lapras' drawbacks are worse than having benched support Pokemon, because at least with those, your game plan is to dig until you can blow something up with Lapras V Max, which your opponent still needs to go through.

    Cut the Quags because realistically, they're never going to be consistent enough to be useful, and playing Keldeo EX is getting you the same benefit except much easier due to it being a Basic.

    I know the title says "Semi-casual" but since you want to design the deck as best you can, I decided to come at this with the point of view as if you're taking it to a tournament. I do not think this deck is good, hence why I didn't make a sample list for you, but if you're just playing semi-casually, you can interpret all I've said into a decklist however you see fit. If I came off as mean, it's because I am :p But I also think that reinforcing bad ideas to someone trying to get better at the game is going to do absolutely nothing beneficial for them, which is far too common in the Pokemon community (at least among casual players).
     
  3. ADP Big Rat 212/???
    ADP Big Rat

    Member

    Now, one more thing I want to mention is that if you feel like taking my advice, but don't know where to go with it, feel free to ask and I can make an untested sample list for you. Though do keep in mind it would be designed for the online tournament meta, which may very well be vastly different than whatever you may normally play against irl. Another thing to note is that Archie's Blastoise is likely just better than playing Lapras/Frosmoth in Expanded due to the fact you can Archies turn 1 (going second) and use attackers like Mew & Mewtwo-GX to copy attacks from Pokemon like Kingdra-GX, which has a similar damage cap to Lapras V Max without the restriction of being an Evolution. The entire Archies engine also happens to be much much more consistent and draw heavy than traditional "Discard Draw 7" draw support with VS Seekers, capable of drawing into every single piece for a big KO in a single turn due to the heavy Trainers' Mail and Order Pads to find Superior Energy Retrieval, Supporter outs, etc. as long as you aren't N'd out of a good hand, which Lapras will also likely struggle against if you don't draw into a way to stack another Lapras up. I can provide a list for Archies too if you want, which would be a lot easier since it's an established, albeit old and currently not very good, archetype.
     

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