RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
I am having a lot of slow games with this deck. Is it necessary to have Bicycles?
I am having a lot of slow games with this deck. Is it necessary to have Bicycles?
Seismitoad EX Variants
- Thread starter Camoclone
- Start date
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
Wouldn't it be worth it to run 1 copy of Battle Reporter because the opponent's hand will get big because they can't play Items.
Thoughts?
Wouldn't it be worth it to run 1 copy of Battle Reporter because the opponent's hand will get big because they can't play Items.
Thoughts?
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
Not a good idea. The opponent is more likely to play a Supporter of their own (if they have one) and discard or shuffle back the items they can't use in order to dig for resources. Regardless, a Sycamore, Colress, or even an N will almost always net you more cards than Battle Reporter would most likely give. I'd run Ghetsis before Reportter because with that the Items would get shuffled back and continue to clog the opponent's deck, but I still don't believe the draw to be worth it compared to the conventional Supporters.
Not a good idea. The opponent is more likely to play a Supporter of their own (if they have one) and discard or shuffle back the items they can't use in order to dig for resources. Regardless, a Sycamore, Colress, or even an N will almost always net you more cards than Battle Reporter would most likely give. I'd run Ghetsis before Reportter because with that the Items would get shuffled back and continue to clog the opponent's deck, but I still don't believe the draw to be worth it compared to the conventional Supporters.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
Good point. Thought it could've worked but what can I expect with that card. lol
My Little Keldeo said:
Good point. Thought it could've worked but what can I expect with that card. lol
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
Also, whether I'd run either R Poké line, my deck would be highly favorable over either VirGen or Dialga EX decks.
Through my experience, running my normal card-drawing engine does not work well (due to potential Supporter "clashes") when I need/want to take advantage of a deck-specific Supporter, like Blacksmith or Korrina. So, I may use a reduced normal card-drawing engine in order to incorporate some Bicycles. I currently run 2 Bicycle, 1 Colress, 3 N, and 4 P Juniper in my Seismitoad-Charizard-Garbodor deck which also contains 2 Blacksmith Supporters.
I'd suggest play-testing different combinations of card-drawing engine configurations till you find the one you like best.
I prefer Charizard EX (Combustion Blast) since it is much easier to setup and requires fewer cards overall too. Although Pyroar's Intimidating Mane can be quite useful at times, 1HKOing a threat with 'Zard is preferred vs. 2HKOing with Pyroar.theliercat said:
Also, whether I'd run either R Poké line, my deck would be highly favorable over either VirGen or Dialga EX decks.
I'm finding that my "normal" decks run just fine with a typical 2 Colress, 4 N, and 4 P Juniper card-drawing "engine" as long as I also have 2 VS Seeker supporting these cards. However, R decks can have an different card-drawing engine configuration should you wish to take advantage of Blacksmith. Playing a Blacksmith causes you to expend your 1 Supporter/turn play; so, Bicycles can also be used to supplement your card-drawing since it is Item-based.Gengar master said:
Through my experience, running my normal card-drawing engine does not work well (due to potential Supporter "clashes") when I need/want to take advantage of a deck-specific Supporter, like Blacksmith or Korrina. So, I may use a reduced normal card-drawing engine in order to incorporate some Bicycles. I currently run 2 Bicycle, 1 Colress, 3 N, and 4 P Juniper in my Seismitoad-Charizard-Garbodor deck which also contains 2 Blacksmith Supporters.
I'd suggest play-testing different combinations of card-drawing engine configurations till you find the one you like best.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
Thanks. I have been running the normal 4 N + Juniper, 2 Colress, kind of strange but maybe it's my luck. lol
TuxedoBlack said:
Thanks. I have been running the normal 4 N + Juniper, 2 Colress, kind of strange but maybe it's my luck. lol
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
I ended up removing my Colress and going for three VS Seeker and a Skyla. The results are interesting. Skyla lets me pinpoint cards i need right away, which is usually Head Ringer or Enhanced Hammer, since I only run two of each. VS Seeker lets me retrieve and reuse if I'm not doing that with Lysandre.
Also, four Crushing Hammers averages two energies removed per game. Sometimes getting rid of a basic energy can be critical, especially if the opponent has no way of getting it back right away. Coupled with a well-timed Lysandre's Trump Card, these can get pretty disruptive. While you are giving your opponent's energy back, you also recover your hammers and you should be in control of the board at this point.
I ended up removing my Colress and going for three VS Seeker and a Skyla. The results are interesting. Skyla lets me pinpoint cards i need right away, which is usually Head Ringer or Enhanced Hammer, since I only run two of each. VS Seeker lets me retrieve and reuse if I'm not doing that with Lysandre.
Also, four Crushing Hammers averages two energies removed per game. Sometimes getting rid of a basic energy can be critical, especially if the opponent has no way of getting it back right away. Coupled with a well-timed Lysandre's Trump Card, these can get pretty disruptive. While you are giving your opponent's energy back, you also recover your hammers and you should be in control of the board at this point.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
You could drop a Garbodor and Trubbish and include 2-2 Pyroar but it might slow down your deck a lot. If you're going to do this I would consider a couple of Fan Clubs to help you grab the basics and then 100% 4 Ultra Balls to help you acquire the Pyroar and Garbodor.
I'd say Garbodor is very useful against VirGen to stop Red Signal abuse and Verdant Wind vs Laserbank. Since they won't be able to Hammer off your tools (because it's an Item), a couple of Weakness Policies might be a worthwhile addition to keep your Seismitoad alive a little longer while you get yourself set up. This handily presents a dilemma to the VirGen player as they're stuck with which to Xerosic (if they even included one) — the Seismitoad Weakness Policy or the Garbodor tool (or should they Lysandre out the Garbodor to kill him and end the ability suppression?).Pokeric said:
You could drop a Garbodor and Trubbish and include 2-2 Pyroar but it might slow down your deck a lot. If you're going to do this I would consider a couple of Fan Clubs to help you grab the basics and then 100% 4 Ultra Balls to help you acquire the Pyroar and Garbodor.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
Silent Lab shuts down basics but Garbodor shuts them down all. Besides that Seismitoad Ex tends to need Laser Bank to take some knock outs and Silent Lab conflicts with that.
Pokeric said:
Silent Lab shuts down basics but Garbodor shuts them down all. Besides that Seismitoad Ex tends to need Laser Bank to take some knock outs and Silent Lab conflicts with that.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
I think the silent lab could be a good stadium to play with Seismitoad EX after Virbank is rotated. Im thinking Seismitoad EX, Ninetails from the upcoming set as well as crawdaunt upcoming set with the Silent lab stadium could be a solid combo. Seismitoad stops items while ninetails stopes them from replacing the stadium, and crawdaunt would be used to discard energy off the active pokemon.
I think the silent lab could be a good stadium to play with Seismitoad EX after Virbank is rotated. Im thinking Seismitoad EX, Ninetails from the upcoming set as well as crawdaunt upcoming set with the Silent lab stadium could be a solid combo. Seismitoad stops items while ninetails stopes them from replacing the stadium, and crawdaunt would be used to discard energy off the active pokemon.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
I'm seeing an increasing number of Seismitoad variants running Pyroar and/ or Reshiram BLW/ NXD/ LTR. Blacksmith and Battle Compressor helps both of these cards power up fast, and with VS Seeker you can keep doing it over and over. This is a particularly good counter to Donphan, as Seismitoad-EX stops them from placing tools and Robo Substitutes, while Reshiram handles Sigilyph, and with a Muscle Band can KO Donphans and other Outrage attackers. There's also a \n obviously good VirGen matchup . I'd be curious to test this against Yveltal, but I can't see it being unfavorable.
I'm seeing an increasing number of Seismitoad variants running Pyroar and/ or Reshiram BLW/ NXD/ LTR. Blacksmith and Battle Compressor helps both of these cards power up fast, and with VS Seeker you can keep doing it over and over. This is a particularly good counter to Donphan, as Seismitoad-EX stops them from placing tools and Robo Substitutes, while Reshiram handles Sigilyph, and with a Muscle Band can KO Donphans and other Outrage attackers. There's also a \n obviously good VirGen matchup . I'd be curious to test this against Yveltal, but I can't see it being unfavorable.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
Zekrom (Outrage) works well in the Yveltal match-ups too.
Zekrom (Outrage) works well in the Yveltal match-ups too.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
The Slurpuff variant could be better in a limited meta as it tends to be better against Donphan and "Garbodorless" and "Keldeoless" Yveltal (decks that don't rely on abilities and don't play Garb) however in turn it sacrifices good matchups against any ability focused deck (metal and fairys). Our conclusion was that the Slurpuff variation is just a gimmicky version of Seismitoad and isn't good enough to be added. The Garbodor version has better matchups across the board and is more consistent than the Slurpuff variant. With non-supporter based draw like Bicycle or Roller Skates the Garbodor version could even have almost as much draw power (even though it's less consistent draw).
Peanus said:
The Slurpuff variant could be better in a limited meta as it tends to be better against Donphan and "Garbodorless" and "Keldeoless" Yveltal (decks that don't rely on abilities and don't play Garb) however in turn it sacrifices good matchups against any ability focused deck (metal and fairys). Our conclusion was that the Slurpuff variation is just a gimmicky version of Seismitoad and isn't good enough to be added. The Garbodor version has better matchups across the board and is more consistent than the Slurpuff variant. With non-supporter based draw like Bicycle or Roller Skates the Garbodor version could even have almost as much draw power (even though it's less consistent draw).
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
I'd argue that the amount of success that Seismitoad/Slurpuff has seen at least warrants discussion, either in this thread or a new one. I might agree that I feel Seismitoad/Garbodor outclasses it, but I have a hard time refuting the deck when many top players use it and do well with it.
I'd argue that the amount of success that Seismitoad/Slurpuff has seen at least warrants discussion, either in this thread or a new one. I might agree that I feel Seismitoad/Garbodor outclasses it, but I have a hard time refuting the deck when many top players use it and do well with it.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
I feel like Toad/Slurpuff is a big meta call. It's a great deck, but when it's run with a low amount of basic energies and relies heavily on special energies, it has a tough time against Metal decks or any Fairy decks that play Aegislash EX. There also isn't much of a counter to Pyroar or Safeguards other than your Lasers.
I'm on the same page. I believe Garbo/Toad outclasses it not only in the mirror, but in general. It's a safer, more consistent play in my opinion. I would rather shut down Aromatisse, Keldeo, Darkrai, Aegislash, Bats, etc. - and be able to focus on the lock and disruption. I feel like you have more control that way when you completely shut off all of the tricks that other decks have to offer. It gives you a better chance to win against every other deck, aside from VirGen, of course.
Blah said:
I feel like Toad/Slurpuff is a big meta call. It's a great deck, but when it's run with a low amount of basic energies and relies heavily on special energies, it has a tough time against Metal decks or any Fairy decks that play Aegislash EX. There also isn't much of a counter to Pyroar or Safeguards other than your Lasers.
I'm on the same page. I believe Garbo/Toad outclasses it not only in the mirror, but in general. It's a safer, more consistent play in my opinion. I would rather shut down Aromatisse, Keldeo, Darkrai, Aegislash, Bats, etc. - and be able to focus on the lock and disruption. I feel like you have more control that way when you completely shut off all of the tricks that other decks have to offer. It gives you a better chance to win against every other deck, aside from VirGen, of course.
RE: Seismitoad EX / Garbodor
I personnally have played a seismitoad garbador varrient as well as a seismitoad slurpuff varrient. The slurpuff varrient has worked well for me and has been more consistant than the garbador build. I have actually beat a Vir/ Gen deck with my slurpuff varrient that i dont play any fire attackers, and I have not beaten any Vir/ Gen decks with the garbador varrient that I have some fire attackers in. Slurpuff was huge in that matchup. It allowed me to draw cards while still using cards like team flare grunt as well as xerosic and crushing hammers and headringers to really slow the oppenent down. This in turn also alowed me to use my lasers. With my slurpuff varrient I have also beaten a sigylyph ( safeguard) heavy dec
I personnally have played a seismitoad garbador varrient as well as a seismitoad slurpuff varrient. The slurpuff varrient has worked well for me and has been more consistant than the garbador build. I have actually beat a Vir/ Gen deck with my slurpuff varrient that i dont play any fire attackers, and I have not beaten any Vir/ Gen decks with the garbador varrient that I have some fire attackers in. Slurpuff was huge in that matchup. It allowed me to draw cards while still using cards like team flare grunt as well as xerosic and crushing hammers and headringers to really slow the oppenent down. This in turn also alowed me to use my lasers. With my slurpuff varrient I have also beaten a sigylyph ( safeguard) heavy dec