High retreat cost + expensive attack = huge potential liability against Trev BREAK. All they'd have to do is Lysander up a benched Regi and it's stuck there while they silent fear their way to victory. This seems like something that should be teched against. I'm thinking either running more AZ (atleast 2) or Something like Dodrio from Breakthrough (just having 1 out would allow Regi to retreat for 1 energy) There's also Bronzong from Fates Collide, which unlike Mr Mime, can stop damage placement.
Discussion Regirock-EX: a liability?
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Then don't play it. Zygarde-EX can handle Trevenant BREAK by himself. If you start with it, then there's not much you can do about it except Float Stone or keep the AZ handy. If you're playing Lucario-EX instead of Zygarde-EX, then you lose anyway.
In my Zygarde-EX/Carbink BREAK deck, I tech in 1 copy for awkward numbers. I only put it down if need be. Even if I do place it down though, I like to have some sort of switching card in my hand or a way to get to one. When it does get Lysandred out, I play a VS Seeker for AZ ,or attach a Float Stone, etc. I say the reward it can bring is worth the effort to switch back onto the bench.
I've found it to be a weakness that I can easily capitalize upon, using my Expanded Snivy Lock deck, I can Lysandre up a Regirock-EX, and if my opponent doesn't have any Switches remaining, I'm free to Trick Shovel and Team Rocket's Handiwork my way to a win by decking out my unfortunate opponent. Even using AZ isn't enough to help, as they usually end up playing Regirock back down, free to be Lysandred again. I'd recommend simply not running it, as Fighting already has more than enough support, and it ends up being a possible liability.
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This was the problem with Deoxys-EX back in the Plasma era as well. You had people that were X Ball-ing Deoxys for free Prizes (or getting into Deoxys wars) and it was a little weird.
Unfortunately with Regirock, you don't have Fighting-type Weakness for you to trade Prizes with easily. The most prominent Grass-type in the meta right now is Vespiquen and you simply cannot trade with a one-Prize attacker very well in these Fighting.dec builds. I mean, I guess this is dependent on what you play as your main attacker, but if it's not Lucario-EX/Zygarde-EX + Focus Sash/Fighting Fury Belt I think you're doing it wrong. Furthermore, the Float Stone/Escape Rope Retreat thing doesn't matter if your opponent can Lysandre it out and OHKO it. So. Yikes.
I think it's a liability and for this meta, isn't good right now.
Unfortunately with Regirock, you don't have Fighting-type Weakness for you to trade Prizes with easily. The most prominent Grass-type in the meta right now is Vespiquen and you simply cannot trade with a one-Prize attacker very well in these Fighting.dec builds. I mean, I guess this is dependent on what you play as your main attacker, but if it's not Lucario-EX/Zygarde-EX + Focus Sash/Fighting Fury Belt I think you're doing it wrong. Furthermore, the Float Stone/Escape Rope Retreat thing doesn't matter if your opponent can Lysandre it out and OHKO it. So. Yikes.
I think it's a liability and for this meta, isn't good right now.
In all honesty, Regirock-EX is something you should only have to play sparingly. I know some Regirock/Carbink builds that run 2 of them, but they usually only want to play maybe 1 at a time since that's all that's needed to power up the team enough to OHKO Shaymins and other common 170 HP EXs like Yveltal-EX after they get their boosts.
Everything said here is also true of shaymin and hoopa EX, but people still run them, and people still play float stone/escape rope with them. Lysandre anything into a OHKO, doesn't matter about retreat cost or bulk or HP at that point. If they are looking for a quick Lysandre into prizes then you can't stop them. All pokemon have some weakness, like Manectric being a thing doesn't mean you shouldn't play Shaymin just because it can Lysandre 1 shot you. Yeah vespiquen and Surperior can one shot it, but they are easily one shot back in return, and so are the Shaymin they have sitting around on the bench. It's why I put a single Lucario EX in my Zygarde deck, it massivly swings the grass matchup back to a 50/50.
Another thing I tend to do is just throw two energy on it if I get a spare turn with Carbink Break up, you put a Regirock with two strong energy on your bench and people will not be lysandring that up for you to use unless they can OHKO it. Turn your liability into a legit threat by putting two energy on it. Only need 1 more energy to attack or retreat. If it's got a floatstone or a FFB on it even better.
My idea, which I am hoping to test soon, and which I believe has more potential than either Zygarde or Lucario (partly because of the prize exchange) is a Primal Clash Medicham/Safeguard Carbink/Break/Regirock; my own idea was that, to maximise damage output, include 4 Regirock-EX. Get three out with Ultra Ball/Hoopa, while making bench space with Sky Field instead of fighting stadium. I wasn't sure about the change at first, but it didn't take long for me to realise that sky field allowed for more space, more Regirock, and more than just and a maximum of 40 instead of merely 20 damage...which, in the case of Medicham, is more like 80 over 40. A big difference. Plus, a lot easier to get multiples of into play for fast, furious damage. If Sky Field gets taken down and you are forced to discard, use Buddy-Buddy Rescue or Super Rod. And don't forget, you already have Carbink with safeguard (and an awesome Break attack) plus Muscle Band and Strong Energy; in Unlimited, you could use Pluspower instead, but that isn't really an option at present.
As for getting a Lysandre'd Regirock out of play? It's really the same as with Hoopa and Shaymin, except that you want to keep it in play after playing it. Personally, I might use Hex Maniac, as it, along with 4 VS Seekers and other Supporter techs, works well in this deck, since you will be aiming to discard Strong Energy using Battle Compressor from turn one. And after that, it's just Switch (best card in the game), or AZ, or Scoop Up. Alternatively, one could use Marowak as a 1-1 or 2-2 line for help against item lock. If it's that you think Regirock is easily able to get pulled into the active spot and KO'd (and that's the reason you don't want to play it) then I would think about reconsidering the Shaymin, as well. Just saying, it has way more HP, even though the attack isn't that great and the retreat is high. Another option to counter this is a 2-2 Zoroark line.
If you are only playing a Lucario or Zygarde deck, you will probably only need one or two, simply because they don't share the Omega Barrage trait and, therefore, cannot utilise the full potential or Regirock's boost; 10 or 20 extra damage is only a little boost, but when messing with Medicham keep in mind that those numbers are doubled.
(Sorry about the long post, but nobody ever seems to even think of Medicham as an option. Guess I just love the art too much).
As for getting a Lysandre'd Regirock out of play? It's really the same as with Hoopa and Shaymin, except that you want to keep it in play after playing it. Personally, I might use Hex Maniac, as it, along with 4 VS Seekers and other Supporter techs, works well in this deck, since you will be aiming to discard Strong Energy using Battle Compressor from turn one. And after that, it's just Switch (best card in the game), or AZ, or Scoop Up. Alternatively, one could use Marowak as a 1-1 or 2-2 line for help against item lock. If it's that you think Regirock is easily able to get pulled into the active spot and KO'd (and that's the reason you don't want to play it) then I would think about reconsidering the Shaymin, as well. Just saying, it has way more HP, even though the attack isn't that great and the retreat is high. Another option to counter this is a 2-2 Zoroark line.
If you are only playing a Lucario or Zygarde deck, you will probably only need one or two, simply because they don't share the Omega Barrage trait and, therefore, cannot utilise the full potential or Regirock's boost; 10 or 20 extra damage is only a little boost, but when messing with Medicham keep in mind that those numbers are doubled.
(Sorry about the long post, but nobody ever seems to even think of Medicham as an option. Guess I just love the art too much).
I can attest to the strength of Ancient Trait Medicham in a deck like that, though having that many Regirocks in a deck is overkill. Ideally, you only want to play 1 at most, and under normal circumstances, the Strong Energies and Fighting Stadiums alone should be enough to deal with most Pokemon. You can put down 2 if you desperately need the OHKO on EXs, but that leaves you very vulnerable, especially if your opponent can cause ability lock. You may want to keep a copy or two of Zygarde-EX, though, since Cell Storm gives you more defensive options against Pokemon like Trevenant or Alakazam-EX.
I get what you mean, about having too many, but remember, I haven't actually tested the deck yet; though I hope too soon. Figuring that Medicham's 30, plus two Strong Energy, is easily boosted to 110, with Fighting Stadium and Muscle Band bringing it to 190, means that you raise a very good point. The reason I would use Regirock-EX (1-2) is really to help bring the damage over 200 to KO Mega's/Assault Vest Walls. The third and fourth I like to believe as important pieces to fit into a most dire situation, just in case early on you can't get many cards out, start with the wrong Pokémon, etc. I agree though, three to four does seem like a bit too much.
Zygarde, though? Once you include him, it's not really a Medicham Deck anymore. Might as well just go with all fighting EX's like Zygarde/Lucario.
I'm not saying it's a tier one deck, I'm just going to try to make it work (as soon as PTCGO stops crashing on me)/
Strangely enough, a Fighting deck should be capable of running both Medicham and CarBREAK together without being too clunky thanks to Korrina. I only mention running Zygarde-EX in a Medicham deck because when you don't run Zygarde-EX, you get bodied so hard by Trevenant decks. Seriously, all it takes is one, and they can just chip away at your entire team after they Lysandre up a Regirock-EX. It's best if you just stall out decks like that with Zygarde-EX's Cell Storm. A few copies of Delinquent can also even the odds against them.
I believe that Regirock is a HUGE liability. Grass decks eat them for breakfast. I play Serperior (my own list) and all I have to do is Lysandre+Poison+Slashing Strike (without Muscle Band) and Regirock dies on my next turn.
Just a reminder:
Personal experience matters, but it is also personal so your mileage may vary. If you run Deck X and it makes Regirock-EX a terrible play, that is only relevant to the rest of the metagame if your deck is popular, either as an established deck or an up-and-comer. +10 damage is worth it if it makes the difference between OHKOs and 2HKOs, possibly 2HKOs and 3HKOs. Conversely, taking out a Regirock-EX may not be worth it if you're ignoring a bigger threat.
Personal experience matters, but it is also personal so your mileage may vary. If you run Deck X and it makes Regirock-EX a terrible play, that is only relevant to the rest of the metagame if your deck is popular, either as an established deck or an up-and-comer. +10 damage is worth it if it makes the difference between OHKOs and 2HKOs, possibly 2HKOs and 3HKOs. Conversely, taking out a Regirock-EX may not be worth it if you're ignoring a bigger threat.
Personal experience matters, but it is also personal so your mileage may vary. If you run Deck X and it makes Regirock-EX a terrible play, that is only relevant to the rest of the metagame if your deck is popular, either as an established deck or an up-and-comer. +10 damage is worth it if it makes the difference between OHKOs and 2HKOs, possibly 2HKOs and 3HKOs. Conversely, taking out a Regirock-EX may not be worth it if you're ignoring a bigger threat.
Otaku gets it, just cause you misplay sometimes or find a lot of grass decks in your area doesn't make a card bad. I love my regirocks, but sometimes I deliberately won't play any in a game. Sometimes they are a liability like against Surperior where you don't need 10 more to get a OHKO. So don't play it in these games. If you see a Surperior or Vespiquen deck across the table, where their best pokemon has 90-140 HP, and you can easily hit that for a couple of strong energy from CarBREAK and a manual in one turn, then why bother playing your regirocks. Save your bench space, use him as ultraball fodder, get him in the discard pile where he is safe.
If a card is expensive or you see loads of people doing well with it and you aren't, then it might be down to your decision making. It's easy to go on autopilot and just turbo out your deck strategy no matter what as quick as possible, but that isn't a good thing (unless you are nightmarch or trev ;p). Fighting decks like this require a lot of finness to work to their full potential.
I've said it before in this thread and I'm gonna restate it, Regirock's attack is actually damned good. 100 and he takes 20 less damage the next turn? With a FFB and all the other fighting damage modifiers available he can easily hit for as much as Zygarde or Lucario. Don't just think of him as a bench sitter that gives you plus 10, think of him as a good back up attacker that happens to also give a modifier. (remember regirock don't modify other regirock, If they did a perfectly viable deck would be "ignore zygarde and just play 4x regirock and keep cycling and powering them up with each other and CarBREAK")
I had a game where I prized 2 of my three Zygarde and my one Lucario. I took all six prizes using my two regirocks with FFB's on. Too tanky for Greninja to deal with. (he took five prizes off of Carbinks and Shaymins, it was close)
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Can't speak for Trevenant BREAK decks as I haven't run them, but one of the reasons I don't find Night March as problematic is because too many people I know go on autopilot when running it... which means they crash into counters or at the very least don't make optimal plays. What do I mean? I'll be running my own Night March deck or Vespiquen/Flareon [Plasma] or anything where the opponent doesn't need to discard a lot of Night Marchers and yet still that is what they do. So I happily can try to run them out of Night Marchers on the field. ^^