Discussion Predicting The Metagame For Nationals

GengarGuys

"Pickle Enthusiast"
Member
Hey Pokebeach, everyone is trying to find the deck with the best matchups for nationals, but why don't we just look for the metagame going into Nationals then go from there as to what deck you will play so here are my predictions from what will show up the most to what will show up the least.

Yveltal
Trevenant
Greninja
Nightmarch
Jolteon Variants
Vileplume Variants
Vespiquen Variants
Zygarde
M Alakazam

Post what you think will be the list for nationals down below. Thanks!

-Gengar
 

Syk0tikx

Aspiring Trainer
Member
manectric will def have a solid showing. and most likely sceptile too ( that deck is hidden OP )
 

ProZlockie

Meow? Meow.
Member
Water-Box will show up, and not sure if this is covered under "Jolteon variants" but M Ray/Jolteon will show up, and maybe a few Metal Ray decks, but that's pretty risky right now.
 

ToToLaw

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Giratina variant, Wailord stall, quad Entei

entei deck isn't that bad against greninja actually, it will lead by 2 prizes usually at first, can hit 130 easily, hit 170 probably (2 muscle band), high HP to force a combination of shuriken and attack for KO, one prize attacker. secondary attacker could be Charizard Ex, Pyroar FLF or Zoroark
 

NintendoAlian

Frontier Brain
Member
Right now, I expect some Night March, Greninja, Trev, some Metal and Bees and a ton of Darkrai/Garb(sometimes with Giratina). Darkrai/Garb beats Greninja(unless they play multiple Megaphones) and Trev and Giratina does give it an edge over Night March, but it's still pretty close, like 55-45. VespiPlume can beat Darkrai/Garb, depending if they can get Float Stone on Trubbish before you set up and whether Vespiquen can get OHKOs on Darkrai. Giratina is hard to set up without VS Seekers and Elixer so it's not a huge worry, especially if you play Lysandre. It beats Night March and Greninja pretty well, and it can beat Trev, it's dependent on a coin flip and VespiPlume's first turn imo. There could be some Yveltal, because it does pretty well against Darkrai/Garb and Trev, but it's bad against Night March and loses to Greninja in my experience. Water Toolbox can beat Darkrai/Garb, because if you can get a lone Regice then you win, there's nothing they can do other than use Baby Yveltal, but in that case just set up another Regice. Gallade cripples Darkrai and Zoroark with Muscle Band takes KOs on Darkrai's.

@ToToLaw, I really like Entei. Imo, it goes even with Greninja, just because Giant Shuriken can do so much. Maybe Entei with Bronzong FCO or Garb and you solidly beat Greninja. It can beat Yveltal, but you need Fury Belts. Zoroark, Gallade, and Baby Yveltal all can't hit 210 and you'll do 150, which knocks out Zoroark and Gallade, and Baby Yveltal without a Fury Belt. Yveltal EX can be a problem because you need the Muscle Bands and you can't hit 210 either, but Yveltal can. I say it's like 60-40 or 70-30 in Entei's favor. Darkrai/Garb is a problem, especially with Tina, which just obliterates you. Darkrai's a problem, because you can't hit 180, but it's hard for it to hit 210, and you're a non EX. I say it's 55-45 or 60-40 in Entei's favor, but if they set up a Giratina it's pretty much game over. Water Toolbox is a terrible MU, Toad and Articuno destroy you. VespiPlume is ok. If you get double Fury Belt on an Entei you Flame Screen for the win, because they're not going to do 140, but you're doing 100 on Bees. That gives you time to set up more Entei's and then you Heat Tackle. If you don't get the dream, then you can still win if you can consistently set up Entei's Heat Tackle. Night March is pretty good, because if you play Megaphone, you can Flame Screen for 40 or 60, and they'll have to hit 200 or 240, and if they have 12 Marchers in the discard pile, then you pretty much won because they'll run out of attackers. A Flame Screen with two Bands is 70 on Joltiks with Belts, and if you can consistently get rid of their stadiums, then you do pretty well. If you play Garb with it, then they can't use Mew, which leaves using Joltik or them getting D Valleys and Pumpkaboos. For anyone reading at this point, I congratulate you for reading this wall of text, you deserve a prize of some sort. Anywho, against Trev, it's pretty bad. Trev shuts off your tools and you can't do much against Break, but, if you play Garb(I really like Garb, if you can't tell), then you can Lysandre up anything not a Trev, attack a tool to Garb, and you win easily. Heat Tackle with one Band and one Belt does 160 and you have 170 HP. If you can't set up Garb, then the MU's pretty bad. The main problem I see with it is consistency, Garb is pretty clunky, but a list that has Garb and is really consistent has a ton of potential to do great.
Tl;dr, Night March, Greninja, Trev, Dark/Garb, Water Box, Metal, and Bees are the decks that will probably see the most play. There could be some fighting just to counter Dark/Garb also. I think that Entei/Garb can do well with the right list, but I'm probably missing something about why it won't do well. I could be sleeping on some decks like Zygarde or Sceptile too.
 

ToToLaw

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Right now, I expect some Night March, Greninja, Trev, some Metal and Bees and a ton of Darkrai/Garb(sometimes with Giratina). Darkrai/Garb beats Greninja(unless they play multiple Megaphones) and Trev and Giratina does give it an edge over Night March, but it's still pretty close, like 55-45. VespiPlume can beat Darkrai/Garb, depending if they can get Float Stone on Trubbish before you set up and whether Vespiquen can get OHKOs on Darkrai. Giratina is hard to set up without VS Seekers and Elixer so it's not a huge worry, especially if you play Lysandre. It beats Night March and Greninja pretty well, and it can beat Trev, it's dependent on a coin flip and VespiPlume's first turn imo. There could be some Yveltal, because it does pretty well against Darkrai/Garb and Trev, but it's bad against Night March and loses to Greninja in my experience. Water Toolbox can beat Darkrai/Garb, because if you can get a lone Regice then you win, there's nothing they can do other than use Baby Yveltal, but in that case just set up another Regice. Gallade cripples Darkrai and Zoroark with Muscle Band takes KOs on Darkrai's.

@ToToLaw, I really like Entei. Imo, it goes even with Greninja, just because Giant Shuriken can do so much. Maybe Entei with Bronzong FCO or Garb and you solidly beat Greninja. It can beat Yveltal, but you need Fury Belts. Zoroark, Gallade, and Baby Yveltal all can't hit 210 and you'll do 150, which knocks out Zoroark and Gallade, and Baby Yveltal without a Fury Belt. Yveltal EX can be a problem because you need the Muscle Bands and you can't hit 210 either, but Yveltal can. I say it's like 60-40 or 70-30 in Entei's favor. Darkrai/Garb is a problem, especially with Tina, which just obliterates you. Darkrai's a problem, because you can't hit 180, but it's hard for it to hit 210, and you're a non EX. I say it's 55-45 or 60-40 in Entei's favor, but if they set up a Giratina it's pretty much game over. Water Toolbox is a terrible MU, Toad and Articuno destroy you. VespiPlume is ok. If you get double Fury Belt on an Entei you Flame Screen for the win, because they're not going to do 140, but you're doing 100 on Bees. That gives you time to set up more Entei's and then you Heat Tackle. If you don't get the dream, then you can still win if you can consistently set up Entei's Heat Tackle. Night March is pretty good, because if you play Megaphone, you can Flame Screen for 40 or 60, and they'll have to hit 200 or 240, and if they have 12 Marchers in the discard pile, then you pretty much won because they'll run out of attackers. A Flame Screen with two Bands is 70 on Joltiks with Belts, and if you can consistently get rid of their stadiums, then you do pretty well. If you play Garb with it, then they can't use Mew, which leaves using Joltik or them getting D Valleys and Pumpkaboos. For anyone reading at this point, I congratulate you for reading this wall of text, you deserve a prize of some sort. Anywho, against Trev, it's pretty bad. Trev shuts off your tools and you can't do much against Break, but, if you play Garb(I really like Garb, if you can't tell), then you can Lysandre up anything not a Trev, attack a tool to Garb, and you win easily. Heat Tackle with one Band and one Belt does 160 and you have 170 HP. If you can't set up Garb, then the MU's pretty bad. The main problem I see with it is consistency, Garb is pretty clunky, but a list that has Garb and is really consistent has a ton of potential to do great.
Tl;dr, Night March, Greninja, Trev, Dark/Garb, Water Box, Metal, and Bees are the decks that will probably see the most play. There could be some fighting just to counter Dark/Garb also. I think that Entei/Garb can do well with the right list, but I'm probably missing something about why it won't do well. I could be sleeping on some decks like Zygarde or Sceptile too.

Maybe i am he first guy who finished reading all of these?;)

i really like your idea of Entei/garb, but i am not sure whether a 2-2 garb line with 2 float stone hurt entei speed and consistency. also, entei depends on using blacksmith, then shaymin ex for draw, so garb slow entei a lot too.

another garb i nearly play on my national (i finally play water box and took the second place), is vespiquen/yveltal/garbodor. without any ability vespiquen is protected from shuriken and bat bites, yveltal is for NM MU. garb is also very valuable against metal deck, which depends so much on bronzong
 
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