Discussion Pidgeot-EX Deck Concept

crystal_pidgeot said:
I think Pidgeot needs additional cards to do well or something to give it more HP so it can tank hits. It still does well against decks that trade hits with it but if it come across a deck that can OHKO it, you just lose and your Max Potions just become dead cards, which makes it harder to use Octillery since they just sit in your hand. I don't think other cards can really work with it but I'm still looking for other options but I think each card option needs to let Pidgeot do what it wants to do better so no useless tech. I think the biggest problem facing Pidgeot EX and its mega is the fact it doesn't have enough HP.
Click to expand...

I have started brewing with M Pidgeot EX and found I often mega evolve the first active one without a spirit link as I was not going to attack anyway. Your comment had me thinking if I could have attached an Assualt Vest then it would effectively have 260 HP vs anything with special energy, i.e. the things that most likely ohko it. Just an idea.

Secondly I have been using 2-2 Umbreon GX line alone side it, early strafes allow you to switch into a Pidgeot while still doing some chip damage. The GX attack gives the deck an GX option as well as some disruption and the Shadow Bullet 90 dmg attack plus 130 from Mach Cyclone does 220 dmg when combined. Also redundancy in Shadow Bullet and Feather Lance allow you this to be a viable strategy as well. Effectively both primary attackers have 3 attacks when Shrine of Memories in play, Umbreon technically has 4 if you include the one it gets from Eevee SM. This is what I just threw together, but it is very untuned and the trainers are definitely a mess up, I was not playing Puzzle of Time.

Would you mind posting your list to see what the puzzle of time and supporter/trainer packages look like?
 
Breeder Emmy said:
I have started brewing with M Pidgeot EX and found I often mega evolve the first active one without a spirit link as I was not going to attack anyway. Your comment had me thinking if I could have attached an Assualt Vest then it would effectively have 260 HP vs anything with special energy, i.e. the things that most likely ohko it. Just an idea.

Secondly I have been using 2-2 Umbreon GX line alone side it, early strafes allow you to switch into a Pidgeot while still doing some chip damage. The GX attack gives the deck an GX option as well as some disruption and the Shadow Bullet 90 dmg attack plus 130 from Mach Cyclone does 220 dmg when combined. Also redundancy in Shadow Bullet and Feather Lance allow you this to be a viable strategy as well. Effectively both primary attackers have 3 attacks when Shrine of Memories in play, Umbreon technically has 4 if you include the one it gets from Eevee SM. This is what I just threw together, but it is very untuned and the trainers are definitely a mess up, I was not playing Puzzle of Time.

Would you mind posting your list to see what the puzzle of time and supporter/trainer packages look like?
Click to expand...

This is my list right now.

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 13

* 1 Bunnelby PRC 121
* 4 Pidgeot-EX EVO 104
* 3 M Pidgeot-EX EVO 105
* 1 Magearna-EX STS 75
* 2 Remoraid BKT 31
* 2 Octillery BKT 33

##Trainer Cards - 38

* 1 Professor Kukui SUM 128
* 1 Skyla BCR 134
* 3 Pidgeot Spirit Link EVO 81
* 2 Lysandre FLF 90
* 3 Shrine of Memories PRC 139
* 1 Olympia GEN 66
* 1 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 3 Ultra Ball FLF 99
* 2 Nest Ball SUM 123
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 1 Silent Lab PRC 140
* 2 N FAC 105
* 1 Hex Maniac AOR 75
* 1 Float Stone BKT 137
* 3 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 134
* 2 Mega Turbo ROS 86
* 4 Max Potion BKP 103
* 3 VS Seeker PHF 109

##Energy - 9

* 4 Double Colorless Energy PHF 111
* 5 Metal Energy Energy 8

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
 
Breeder Emmy said:
I have started brewing with M Pidgeot EX and found I often mega evolve the first active one without a spirit link as I was not going to attack anyway. Your comment had me thinking if I could have attached an Assualt Vest then it would effectively have 260 HP vs anything with special energy, i.e. the things that most likely ohko it. Just an idea.

Secondly I have been using 2-2 Umbreon GX line alone side it, early strafes allow you to switch into a Pidgeot while still doing some chip damage. The GX attack gives the deck an GX option as well as some disruption and the Shadow Bullet 90 dmg attack plus 130 from Mach Cyclone does 220 dmg when combined. Also redundancy in Shadow Bullet and Feather Lance allow you this to be a viable strategy as well. Effectively both primary attackers have 3 attacks when Shrine of Memories in play, Umbreon technically has 4 if you include the one it gets from Eevee SM. This is what I just threw together, but it is very untuned and the trainers are definitely a mess up, I was not playing Puzzle of Time.
Click to expand...

@crystal_pidgeot Any comments on the use of Assualt Vest and/or Umbreon GX?
 
Breeder Emmy said:
@crystal_pidgeot Any comments on the use of Assualt Vest and/or Umbreon GX?
Click to expand...

I like Assault Vest. I used to run two in my list but took them out because special Energy fell out of favor but they are starting to show up again so I'm interested in running them again, since I normally get a Mega Pidgeot down without the Spirit Link so its a nice tool to have around. Umbreon-GX is a bit different. Outside of snipe damage, I don't see what it really offers. I do feel that Pidgeot needs a GX attacker in the deck but I feel the new Sylveon-GX is more Pidgeot's speed since it can remove Pokemon from the board and just outright improve specific matchups. As of now, I think you'll benefit more from two Lugia-EX or similar attacker since you can drop it and go and depending on the build, might be able to get away with a FFB or two. Pidgeot gains new tools when the next set drops so I'm waiting for that since I feel it makes Pidgeot 1000 times better.
 
I probably wouldn't be running Mega Turbo here either. I would just run 4 copies of Shrine of Memories to ensure consistency there so that you shouldn't ever need the Mega Turbo. Bursting Balloon should further compensate for this, and the replacement of the help to enable more effective cards for offsetting advantage factors against the opponent (such as Pokémon Center Lady). Unfortunately, I can't image being able find a place in here for Pokémon Center Lady if Ninja Boy and Delinquent are here. You'd probably want to run a 3-1 between those two, then use the remaining Supporter spots to get in 4 Copies of Judge—and something like 3 copies of Professor Sycamore, 3 copies of N, and 2 copies of Skyla. Zoroark should have plenty of room taking the place of Octillery as a 2-2 line. It also be far more effective given its offensive potential, and tactical bonus effected by the Switch-like effect of {Stand In} (which can be used to ace Special Conditions).
 
Yeah, I don't have a list. That is how this thread ended up in this topic to begin with. You're on your own here. Why don't you sift through my collection with the link in my sig and check the deck proportions there. You could learn a lot from them.
 
ReapThaWhirlwind said:
Yeah, I don't have a list. That is how this thread ended up in this topic to begin with. You're on your own here. Why don't you sift through my collection with the link in my sig and check the deck proportions there. You could learn a lot from them.
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who can't see his signature? o_O

Just trying to figure out if I did something in my settings and forgot about it. I can see at least some other signatures...
 
In case you can't see it, you can simply follow this link. Just a personal note that I don't follow the mainstream, as I've done all my deck structures from scratch from the very start, using mathematical proportion and game dynamic analytics to develop the resourcing and tactical combat strategies my decks utilize.
 
Last edited:
I don't like really going offsite to look at something. Things should be as contained as possible so things are easier to find but looking on your blog, I couldn't find anything on Pidgeot.

As a person who is playing this deck, you are 7 to 11 cards slower than your opponent, which is a problem because other decks have things like Max Elixir and other speed cards to work with so Pidgeot needs to be drawing cards consistently through out the game and Octillery lets you do that. Disruption is slow but it doesn't always work since Pidgeot-EX is a reactive card, meaning you're waiting for something to happen and since you're slower than your opponent, they will be able to draw out of it assuming things like Judge even did a thing.

Like I said, damage scaling decks are huge right now and they aim to KO you in one hit so they will sit there and wait until they are able to get around Mirror Move so you need to be hitting them to prevent that so your cards need to focus more on getting going and tanking the rest of the game.
 
I don't have a Pidgeot deck in my collection. The suggestion was to check out the method of deck structuring I use, so that you can learn from it, and more tactically build your Pidgeot deck without being so dependent on the cliché Octillery, Mega Turbo, VS Seeker base suite. Check the decks I have that utilize Judge and Delinquent as disruption, and take a look at the method used to structure the deck around accommodations for that. This will give you a general idea, and experience gain for how to work with these things for yourself. From there, you should be able to plug in things such as Fighting Fury Belt, Bursting Balloon, etc. to custom suite the 3-2 Pidgeot/M Pidgeot line, alongside 4 Pyukumuku, Tauros-GX, and possibly 2-2 {Stand In} Zoroark.
 
It just seems a bit unnecessary to me, and I'm the guy known for making weird list. The problem with Pyukumku is it's easily countered and with all the damage scaling decks out there, they will just sit and build damage but I question the need for Delinquent. What I really want to know are the numbers you suggest for these cards. I'm not a fan of Delinquent because there is so much draw in the game. I would much rather not discard my Shrine of Memories to make an opponent lose three cards from their hand and depending on the matchup, this can be very helpful to the opponent. A lot of play happens from the discard pile now so it isn't as disruptive as it would be in a game like Yugioh or Magic where little card draw exist and should my opponent have a draw support, then I wasted a supporter when, it could have done me better to either draw cards or maintain my board.

With what you list, I wonder why you even need Pidgeot in the deck? Zoroark could be nice since it hits mega Ray hard but what else does it do? You want Pidgeot to take hits so you can respond with Mirror Move or get going fast enough so you can force them to hit you so you can Mirror Move. Everything else you list is counter productive to what Pidgeot wants to do.

I'm also not sure what you mean by cliche either? None of my list are what you consider standard or even sub-standard. I run these cards because they work. I don't have the answers most are looking for with this deck but I'm slowly finding the right mix and from what I learned, your sub attackers should deal with your worst matchup. You need to also be fast while also maintaining what it is Pidgeot wants to do. We run Octillery because it's better for us than Shaymin-EX and since we are playing Pidgeot-EX, players will look for ways to not attack a Pidgeot so they go after Shaymin as it gets them closer to their win condition whereas Octillery is a harder card to target down since it breaks the prize trade. If you got two of them down, they will more than likely be there the whole game. We don't run Mega Turbo because we run a Mega, we do so because after we Max Potion a Mega Pidgeot, we can re-attach the basic Energy and attach somewhere else on the board. My Pidgeot list is carefully crafted to perform decently well against the meta and the card choices are there for a reason. The one thing I noticed is only one of your decks have VS Seeker in them and the rest don't. Why are you suggesting to people they don't run it? I could give argument to things like Octillery or Puzzle of Time but I've never heard anyone say to not run VS Seeker?

On another note. I want to know what numbers you're suggesting for the Trainers because I looked at your list and I'm confused.
 
Typically, I would image to be running some Supporter base like 4 Judge, 2 N, 4 Sycamore, 2 Skyla, 3 Delinquent, 1 Ninja Boy. Keep in mind that you don't have to use Delinquent on your own Stadium, typically you're going to have 7 cards total that it's effective on (given your opponent is packing at least 3 Stadiums). It's a very effective play to get something out of acing your opponent's Stadium before you play your own. M Pidgeot has free retreat, so if you would lose attack potential, you can just retreat behind Tauros-GX or Pyukumuku. One of the prime things here is not having anything on your bench that your opponent is going to want to Lysandre out. Pyukumuku boasts a consequence to it—Tauros-GX threatens to One-Hit KO their Active Pokémon. This increases the hostility of the environment to make their options with Lysandre a lot more difficult to freely exercise.

Cliché is a term that refers to deck structures and strategies that are immensely repetitive to the mainstream and questionably supported by a blind following. Not saying your decklists in particular, but some of the strategies you aim to entertain can be defined as majorly Cliché. The blind explicit use of 4 VS Seeker is a great example of this. It's a cliché strategy that the mainstream hardly understands the scientific details of, but instead clings to from the theoretical understanding that VS Seeker can be tactical. That would be why you never heard anyone say not to run VS Seeker, and if you would like to check it out, I just had a full debate about this very subject that you can read here → this link. My points were very clear, and should be easy to understand.

I understand the potential of M Turbo, but M Pidgeot has free retreat, so you have the evasive option with Pyukumuku to replace Mega Turbo for greater consistency in your disruption department with Judge, N, and Delinquent, which can offer greater overall potential than Mega Turbo will.
 
I looked through the whole thread and it made no sense to me. You're basically saying to not run VS Seeker and run more hard counts of Supporters and while I could use a few more, taking out VS Seeker isn't a option. I run three because I have four copies of Puzzle of Time and could grab a supporter should I need it. I don't know why you are suggesting disruption so hard though. Any good player wouldn't allow themselves to get hit more than maybe two times in a match by Delinquent and won't drop any Stadiums after that, meaning you have to drop yours, which you can't do because you need your Shrine of Memories.

Where are the Lysandre at? You need to be able to remove weaken Pokemon on the board. The point is to be able to find things like Max Potion when you need them. You also need to find a Energy and Stadium assuming Mega Pidgeot got hit. It's super hard for me to continue this conversation without seeing a actual list. You're talking to a guy who has been playing the deck since it was released and while I'm not the go to guy for all the answers, I can speak on it. You need Octillery. You need Puzzle of Time, You need to be decently fast.

I need you to make a list so I can see what you're talking about.
 
Item lock is still a thing in the Standard format. In which additional copies of actual Supporters versus VS Seeker helps to protect you against Item lock. Consider that, as it tends to be very important. I have decks that fair miserably against Item lock, but you're vying for competition, so you'll need to take precaution against it. Most people can't do without the benefits of their Stadium cards. I've been in both situations where I have purposely held them to prevent things like [Gaia Volcano], as well as times where I played them anyways despite such effects, rolling with the punch to jump ahead of the game pace. It can go either way, and really depends on how diversified your opponent's potential is.

Raw power can make up for tactic, which is a very prominent aspect I like to check and include when developing my deck structures. A raw power option enables you to switch up your combat style, and gives you a reliable combat strategy to fall back on in the face the preventive effects and disruption (such as Judge and Item lock).

M Pidgeot has some Lysandre-like potential so I would say that it's not needed here. If you really wanted to, I would consider exchanging the Delinquent for Lysandre, but that is going to detract from your ability to dampen your opponent's resources (a very significant factor to keep cards like VS Seeker, Lysandre, and precious energy out of their hand). I haven't been active in the game, and I'm in the process of shelling out my entire collection to quit the game, so I don't know what to tell you. I hope at least I've been able to help you see things in a greater light, and possibly you will be able unlock the alpha potential here for yourself.
 
That is true but Item lock beats everything so this isn't a fault with Pidgeot and I don't think making your other matchups worse for one you might not play against is the right call. Its why it's so hard to add techs to Pidgeot because you don't know what is more of a threat. I don't understand what you mean by raw power. I may be missing something here but can you elaborate more on that but I guess your last point is more telling. How active were you and how useful was all of this for you - all the disruption and all.
 
Item lock doesn't beat everything, it only beats a majority of decks out there in the mainstream because they so structured and majorly dependent on Item cards. This Pidgeot deck I have been talking about would probably suffer against Item lock a bit itself, mostly due to the Bursting Balloon/Fighting Fury Belt suite. However, it could also be adapted to beat out Item lock as well. The technique for this primarily involves trying not to include more than 3 Item cards total (not including Pokémon Tool Cards) if you're looking some direction with this. Another obvious adaptation to make, is to get rid of VS Seeker in lieu of actual Supporter cards (as suggested by default).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top