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Expanded NinjaBox Sword&Shield

Discussion in 'PTCG Deck Garage' started by Laurier_Ex, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    Here is my list for Sword&Shield expanded. So far it beats most meta decks with a upper hand. Just went on a 17 wins out of 20 games with this list. The toughest decks to beat so far are V decks which hit like a truck (Zacian and Snorlax). Have not really found hard counters yet against those but decided to include a Sudowoodo to provide some assistance. I included Zacian V to help with drawing early. Adds also the possibility to use Mallow with the steel energy for free attachment on Zacian V. Before S&Sh I was having problems with Ultra Necrozma decks but Wobuffet V acts as a very efficient counter with the help of Chaotic Swell as long as you can stream energy so now I am having a positive win rate. Hoopa is a good way to raise win% against Dark box and counters Roxie/Gartina. Apart from that, replaced Ultra Ball with Quick Ball instead and added Aurora energy. Regirock XY is there to counter decks like Sableye or other energy disruptive decks.

    The deck still feels very good,


    ****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

    ##Pokémon - 17

    * 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
    * 1 Tauros-GX SUM 100
    * 1 Hoopa SLG 55
    * 1 Comfey GRI 93
    * 1 Machamp-EX AOR 90
    * 1 Regirock PR-XY 49
    * 1 Pheromosa & Buzzwole-GX UNB 1
    * 1 Jolteon-EX GEN 28
    * 1 Magearna-EX STS 110
    * 1 Zacian V SSH 138
    * 1 Mewtwo & Mew-GX UNM 71
    * 2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 137
    * 1 Unown AOR 30
    * 1 Wobbuffet V SSH 86
    * 1 Keldeo-GX UNM 47

    ##Trainer Cards - 31

    * 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
    * 1 N FCO 105
    * 1 Stealthy Hood UNB 186
    * 1 Mallow GRI 127
    * 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
    * 3 Pokémon Communication TEU 152
    * 1 Scramble Switch PLS 129
    * 1 Colress PLS 135
    * 3 Ninja Boy STS 103
    * 2 Ultra Ball SUM 135
    * 4 Quick Ball SSH 179
    * 2 Chaotic Swell CEC 187
    * 1 Float Stone BKT 137
    * 1 Guzma BUS 115
    * 4 VS Seeker ROS 110
    * 1 Field Blower GRI 163
    * 1 Great Catcher CEC 192
    * 1 Guzma & Hala CEC 229

    ##Energy - 12

    * 1 Beast Energy {*} FLI 117
    * 2 Aurora Energy SSH 186
    * 1 Rainbow Energy CES 183
    * 4 Prism Energy NXD 93
    * 4 Double Colorless Energy XY 130

    Total Cards - 60

    ****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020


  2. Nyora A Cat
    Nyora

    Member

    I don't know what decks you refer to in your 17/20. If the deck was really as good as you say, you wouldn't be the only person I've ever heard of it from. Personally, I don't have a lot of experience with Ninja Box decks, but I feel like a FAC Mew, 1-2 of, is super good/ok. It, along with Counter Energy, allows you to easily use your other Pokemon's attacks, given you're behind. I think it's BKP Sudowoodo is also more helpful vs both Zacian V and Snorlax VMAX, as using Watch & Learn on either attack results in a knockout, barring any cards to reduce the damage (Metal Frying Pan for Zacian V and any form of weakness removal for Snorlax VMAX).

    There's a lot, lot of 1-ofs in here. There are 32 1-ofs to my counting, which is more than half your deck. This makes prizing something not dismissable at all. This list desperately needs Gladion to prevent losing games due to prizing.

    Wobbuffet V does help vs Ultra Necrozma, given a couple things:
    1. You have the Energy to attack with. Yeah, you have 4 DCE, but keep in mind Ultra Necrozma's attack discards it. I'd count on only being able to use 3 a match, as there is always the chance the 4th gets discarded/prized/otherwise unusable. Though it is still there. This means you get about 3 KOs in total using this strategy.
    2. They don't have a switching method. Unless you start stacking Energy, which Ultra Necrozma can discard, Wobbuffet V on it's own provides 0 offensive pressure to an opponent. Now, you could just refrain from sticking Pokemon on the board, which due to Ninja Boy, could be a little easy as you could always Ninja Boy into Unown and have it discard itself. But even with Rescue Stretcher, this is a 2-of deal. You can't bench more than 6 Prizes.

    While these seem fairly moot at first, they're both very important. Point 1 says you can't rely on Wobbuffet V to win you the game because you only have a limited number of Energy to attack with, which also means a limited number of KOs. What I didn't mention there, though, is the other Ultra Necrozma lists that play Ultra Beasts, or really just other forms of damage altogether. If they somehow happen to put any extra damage on Wobbuffet V that Wobbuffet V can't KO with, then it's surefire that in a couple turns it's gonna get KO'd.

    If you can keep track of your Energy, conserve it, keep your bench small, and watch for other attackers an Ultra Necrozma player may have and prepare for those, you should be able to use Wobbuffet for a decent portion of the game.

    Overall, I will be honest this list does not look too terribly good, it needs a lot of luck in not prizing things and is easily crippled by control. The 1-ofs situation also places more reliance on each 1-of especially if they're important to the matchup, meaning even if they aren't prized, if they aren't used to their full potential (being discarded early fsr, KOd, etc.) you might just take an autoloss.

    Again, not super good with Ninja Box decks, but in my honest opinion it doesn't look super wonderful. I'd probably be using MegaLop/Jiggly to take much better MUs vs DarkBox and some Snorlax VMAX too. A Jirachi XY67 could also work against a wide variety of the meta, even though people do occasionally play Pokemon Ranger now due to Noivern & ADP.
     
  3. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    Thank you for the input. I like what you said and thats a lot pf text so I will just bring a few points up in response to your commentaries.


    Probably because people will only wait for a renown player to bring forth an idea before even considering it. I have been playing the deck As soon as Ninja Boy got printed and just keep improving it and adapting to the meta as I could every new expansion forward. Through all this playtest time from Steam Engine and forward the deck gave me overall at least 65% win pct. The idea of this deck already got used before and you probably heard of Mew Box, Marshadow Box or Mew3 box of course. Here the deck uses Ninja Boy instead to copy attacks. This removes the weakness of having your attacker completely being reliant on its ability to attack and gives the deck better access to weaknesses, It also allows it to use pokemon abilities like Hoopa’s or Keldeo GX’s which is not possible with a Mew, Marshadow GX or Mew3 deck. The deck is as good as I say, you are welcome to give me a try anytime.

    Prizing makes for around 10% given that you play 1 of. These games make it to your disadvantage, especially when you really nées the prized card. So unless that prized card is a must against the deck you are playing, you will loose at most 10% of your games that way. The game as many tools to work with and sometimes even if the card you need is prized, you can still find a way to play around it. So maybe in the end, prizing will cost you 8% win%. When you play this deck, you need to accept it. This is the price to pay in order to gain access to that many tools and counter so many decks.


    Ultra Necrozma decks from experience will always let you play first. Given this fact, you can already start with 1 energy attachment ahead. No point attaching a DCE first for them to just discard it next but you can attach other energies for the time being. You can also just let them take 1 prize and attach on the bench. And if you play Chaotic Swell, they cant attack on the first turn so this gives you more energy to attach before they start discarding them. And If they dont attack and you dont, whomever decks out first looses and that is something I am willing to do against Ultra Necrozma decks given the cards they usually include. You can also prepare a backup attacker with Regirock on the bench. Don’t know if people cant just play the matchup right but unless i brick or have Wobbufet prized, I do not loose much against them. If they bring something else to deal with Wobb, you dont just wait for Wobb to get Koed, you Ninja Boy into something else and then come back to Wobbufet after the threat is out.
     
  4. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    Rebellious Clash cards just got revealed. I had time to quickly go through the cards to find out if anything stands out and could represent a possible addition to the Ninja Box deck.

    At first sight, the most interesting card the expansion has to offer is Ninetales V. It offers something very special. In fact, Ninja Box is a deck that can gain advantage of the game by gaining access to hitting for different weakness and achieving more damage that way. Most of the time through each expansion from Ninja Boy release forward, with this deck, you had access to a good basic pokemon which could be splashable and hit for weakness for only 2 energy attachments, ideally doing a OHKO on a big pokemon, stalling or giving another advantage at the same time. Magearna-Ex for example can OHKO Sylveon&Gardevoir GX with a Fighting Fury Belt as well as rendering your pokemons immune to effects of attacks. Jolteon-Ex can OHKO Shaimin-EX and stall at the same time. The exception to this rule as far as I can remember was unfortunately hitting for Fire, Fighting or Grass weakness because the game had poor choices to offer.

    With Fighting, Marshadow GX was a 2 energy attachment choice that could warrant a OHKO but his low HP and bad synergy with the deck never allowed him to be promoted for long. With Grass, there was never a 2 energy attachment pokemon choice the deck could reliably use to achieve either a OHKO on weakness or something to improve the resilience of the deck. The choices In that department where always limited to 1 and 3 energy attachement choice. Cards like Leafeon-Ex, Pheromosa-Gx or Buzzwole&Pheromosa Gx could do the trick against some meta decks and be used with a bit more investment if really needed.

    Ninetales V offers a pokemon choice to the deck that can finally achieve a OHKO on pokemon with fire weakness for a 2 energy attachment cost. In fact, Ninetales V can OHKO Zacian V for a low energy price as well as a lot of other fire weak pokemon that will or already is part of the gaming scene. Time and testing will tell if that card is good enough to be included but it gives me good vibes.
     
  5. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member


    I dont play Pokémon leagues or anything but let me prove you that the knowledge I got of the game is not to be shy of. I got a very good resume and background of Pokémon (from when I started playing it) and gaming . I still learn on a day to day basis but my knowledge is vast and I am wise. I am surely not some immature 12 years old who just made a deck last week and rants about it. I am 38 years old and been posting on gaming forums for the past 20 years.


    I started posting back about builds for other games a long time ago. I was on WC3 and Dota 1 beta forums back in the time posting meta builds for people to work with. I had a Nintendo console when I was 7 years old and before I was running games with a taping machine and an old Radio Shack multicolor computer my older cousin handed me over. I have studied computer and electronics in university on top of working in civil and electric engineering. English is my second language just so you know.



    It was not the proper post to argue about Ninja Box I agree. On the other hand I had to respond to your arguments that tell something but in the end dont end up proving to be sufficient to outright kill the deck or make your argument true. I see how what you are saying makes sense but the deck overcame a lot of obstacles you mentioned. Let me explain.


    First of all, having to play with a 1 card of. That's why the deck includes right now a Mew3 copy which can copy other attackers and a copy of Rescue Stretcher. Mallow makes it easier with the help of Unown and Shaymin Ex to draw into the Stretcher if that's what you need. Having access twice to every Pokémon in your deck is just what you need, no more, no less, and Mew3 serves as a back up for most of these.



    Also, from as far as I recon and from what I have understood by reading and studying the game, gusting effects have won a lot of tournaments in the past. Ninja Box is one of the few decks that can manage your bench and avoid loosing to Gusting effects. Ninja Boy is a better Giovanni's exile which recycles your Shaymin Ex and Tapu Lele Gx and manages your bench support perfectly by allowing you to either bench Unown (extra draw which synergizes with Mallow), Regirock (energy protection and backup guaranteed attacker), Comfey (not affected by any special conditions) or Magearna Ex (no effect of attacks) in exchange. All of thesa counter a vast majority of Expanded decks you encounter. I could list over 10 right now.


    Another thing, I did say that Ninja Box made 65% win rate but that was over the course of hundreds of game including all the time I placed in developing a totally different engine that works around Ninja Boy. Right now, the only games I am loosing are the ones where:

    1.I misplay (5-10%)
    2. I brick (5%-10%)
    3. I end up having something priceless for a match up prized (5%)
    4. The final 5-10% would be because of games I play against decks that have a very high win rate against mine and this would include Noivern Gx, Snorlax Gx and Murkrow Gx.

    So roughly I would say I can play around 75% right now up to 85% if I don't misplay at all.


    Finally, how can you compare Noivern to Ninja Box? Noivern can't win against any stall/mill decks to begin with from what I can see and I don't see any similarities with Ninja Box to be honest. The closest thing that Ninja Box can be compared to is Mew3 toolbox and let me tell you about it. First off, Ninja Box beats Mew3 box in a 1vs1 fight over 90% of the time because it can stall with Keldeo-Gx and force the Mew3 to hit with Greninja's 130dmg piercing attack just to retaliate with a Ninja Box into Machamp Ex and/or Tauros Gx for a OHKO 3 prize shot. Not to mention that Mew3 is totally reliant on abilities to function at all and relies solely on 3 prizes attackers which is a big con, especially in a meta full of Silent Labs and Garbotoxin.


    My advice to you is to try Ninja Box before you comment any further because you obviously don't see behind the curtain. Here, I should quickly mention the fact that you just about never bench the attacker you need for the match up with this deck. Instead, ideally you want to attach energy to Shaymin Ex or Tapu Lele Gx to recycle them and avoid having your pokemon attacker targeted and sent to the discard pile before it is online and ready. The deck is a lot better than anyone would believe to be. Just learn how this deck counters just about anything that comes at it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  6. FourteenAlmonds Roasted, but not salty
    FourteenAlmonds

    Member

    Why use Mewtwo-EX? Wobbuffet V seems so much better if you do need a pokemon to "switch" damage counters
     
  7. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    The main reason is that Mew3 can switch up to 300 dmg counter with a FFB while Wobbuffet is limited to 250dmg. And Mew3 is sometimes more useful to have has your main attacker than Wobbuffet who has a weak second attack and will require you to switch back into another attacker with Ninja Boy while you could use your supporter turn in a better way. There is some occasions where this 40dmg difference is the difference between life and death. From the top of my head here, I can state for exemple Reshizard who can go through stall with his Gx to hit for 300dmg or Dark box which hits Wobbuffet for weakness. But neither of those matchup requires Mewtwo&Mew for you to win it.

    Mewtwo EX is one of these cards that remained in the deck from last expansion and could very well be removed and replaced with a consistency card like Ultra Ball for exemple. Definitely not the most used card out there and you might be right about the fact that this spot could very well be used by another better card. Maybe the card is more overrated in the current meta state. Good point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
  8. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    After reading’Dolls are broken’ article on the news page i felt like I gad to give some info about playing Ninja Box against the Dolls deck. I was not able to get a matchup against all variants of Dolls but fortunate enough to play against a very good player with the Oranguru variant. And It felt very satisfying to win the game against him. I guess that this sounds a little bit hard to believe especially when Grant Manley says in his article that Dolls cant loose against any normal attacking deck. But Ninja Box is not a normal attacking deck.

    The strategy I use to win against Dolls involves the use of Regirock XY promo and Buzzmosa. The idea here is to attach all your energy to Regirock promo to prevent energy disruption from hammers and supporters while trying to get a few prizes using him as an attacker.

    Regirock is a decent attacker against Dolls because he can OHKO Oranguru and Hoopa if he is included. He can also recycle stadiums which is great if they run Beaches. After attaching all the energy you could on Regirock and taking the first two prizes, the trick is to use Ninja Boy to swap Regirock for Buzzmosa. Buzzmosa can get rid of 2 Dolls in one go with his first attack or gets some damage counters on the bench to prepare for the next move. With at least 8 energies attached to Buzzmosa, he can use his Gx attack to net 4 prizes in one go. By attaching a maximum of energy on Regirock, you are making sure that Buzzmosa is able to keep attacking with over 8 energies for at least enough turn to get the opportunity to use the GX attack for 4 prizes to get 6 prizes before you deck out.

    Buzzmosa is also used in a similar way against Durant mill but usually Durant does not opt for energy denial so Regirock is not useful against it. Regirock on the other hand, is used against Sableye decks as well. With the use of Stealthy hood to prevent being countered by Articuno Gx, going for Regirock and into Buzzmosa for the finishing move usually works.

    Prizing either of your pokemons in these matchup is most likely a loss. But having everything you need will give you the win unless you have poor luck and they get lucky with discarding the cards you need.
     
  9. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    *edited list, replaced Sudowoodo, Metal energy, Parallel City and Mew2 Ex for consistency.

    I am very mitigated on how to do the final tuning of the deck at the moment. It feels nice to be able to go through most degenerate decks and a wide variety of attacking decks. But you need to also account for the matchups where the win average gets closer to 50%. In this case, the 3 best attacking decks against this one are probably Turbo Dark, Snorlax Vmax and Zacian V. These deck hit the 180 dmg threshold and make it harder to use retaliation strategies. Same can apply to ADP once he used his Gx attack. This 180 threshold is what sometimes poses a threat and makes it go from a win to a loss. In these matchup, tools are very important. Is it better to use Sudowoodo and Stealthy hood more heavily or to remove Sudowoodo and use Fighting Fury Belt instead? Sometimes it is one, sometimes the other. Right now, I am a bit thorn between the 2 options because both tools helps against some other matchup as well.

    Snorlax Vmax matchup

    Removing Sudowoodo makes Snorlarx Vmax harder to beat. The main problem is that Chaotic Swell by it's own only brings Snorlax Vmax attack down to 180 dmg with 5 benched Pokémon but then you cannot use Ninja Boy into Machamp Ex or Tauros Gx to OHKO it back because they have 180hp each(unless you attach a Fighting Fury Belt or use Mewtwo to copy). So removing Sudowoodo makes you more reliant on having to draw into FFB alone to counter the deck.
    Turbo Dark

    Turbo Dark is not a bad matchup but it goes around 50-50 most of the time. You can beat Turbo Dark a few ways. First way involves Jolteon Ex paired with Comfey and Guzma to target Sneasel and maintain the stall with Flash Ray as long as you can. In case Claw Slash is used, Ninja Boy into Tauros Gx or Machamp Ex can be used to get a KO and remove treat from evolved Pokémon's. Then you focus back on promoting Jolteon-Ex once more or go into another stall mode.

    The second way involves using Keldeo Gx and Hoopa to stall and Ninja Boy into Machamp Ex or Tauros Gx to take prize cards and try to secure stall when it is needed. If the other player goes into Skyfield and expands a lot of Shaymin/Dedenne to draw, Chaotic Swell can be used to prevent the opponent from benching non Gx-Ex pokemons anymore and avoid loosing from Keldeo Gx or Hoopa. Managing the bench properly can be time consuming in this matchup but essential. Gusting effect as well as drawing into the items when you need it is what provides this matchup a higher challenge.
    Zacian V

    Zacian V can be beaten with Jolteon Ex if Pokemon Ranger is not included. If it is included, the matchup becomes much harder. The fact that he can hit and reach 270 dmg with it's attack renders Machamp Ex and Tauros Gx powerless. Mew3 has a way to get those retaliation attacks to work with the help of FFB attached. Wobbuffet V if Zacain can only hit up to 230dmg could use a FFB to swap damage around and OHKO Zacian V while healing.

    Including Mewtwo with damage swap to use it with Mew3 to avoid getting KOed can work in this matchup.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  10. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    I spent around 350 tournament tickets last week. I did not have much FA, SR or Hollow cards.

    ----------> Ninja Box pimped up <-----------
     
  11. I like pokemon Aspiring Trainer
    I like pokemon

    Member

    I normally play meta/ fun, publicized decks and I don't know that much about how to play your deck but I have a few questions.

    * What do you do in the beginning turns of the game since I don't really see any energy acceleration? Do you stall with Hoopa/keldeo-GX?
    * What is the main GX attack you want to use (if any is required)?
     
  12. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    First thing, with the new 1st turn supporter rules, I still always choose to go 1st or end up going first because this deck does not have energy acceleration and because every one wants to go second. I have not tried going second so far and I do not think it would be better most of the time just because going first allows you to gain a tempo on energy attachment which is something most of the time crucial for the deck.

    Then, you need to choose where to attach your energy. If your active is at risk of being OHKO, you get a possible stall out like you said to avoid that or attach the energy onto the bench ideally to a Shaymin-Ex or Tapu-lele-Gx so it gets recycled and ready again to be used. With this deck, you dont bench your attacker 95% of the time. You want to bench Shaymin-Ex, Tapu Lele-Gx and Zacian V and attach your energy to one of those or a pokemon that you need to stall with. Then when you are ready, you Ninja Boy into the attacker you want from one of those.

    Finally, regarding the Gx attack, it depends on the matchup and situation. Against 2-3 prizes deck that take 2HKO, I use Tauros-Gx or Mew3’s Gx attack the most. Against 1 prize attackers, Buzzmosa’s Gx attack is usually best and helps to win the prize race. Vs spread decks, Mew3’s Gx attack can be very good. Against Dolls, Durant mill and Sableye mill, with the help of Regirock to prevent energy disruption, my strategy is to use Buzzmosa-Gx’s attack to the full potential (8 energy attachment) and take the final 4 prizes all at once. And then, Keldeo-Gx can be used when Keldeo-Gx is a decent stall in the matchup or against fire decks to take OHKO.
     
  13. Laurier_Ex Ninja master
    Laurier_Ex

    Member

    I did a lot of testing and here are the current status of the deck:

    -The deck has favorable matchup against most pre SwSH release decks including Ultra Necrozma and most ADP variants.
    -The hardest matchup overall are V decks. Custom catchers, Whistle, ropes and suchcan be seen as a counter. They force you into trying to deny more prizes on your bench to avoid gust and prevent you frm discarding useless pokemon cards.
    -Dolls and most degenerate decks are winnable using Regirock and Buzzwole&Pheromosa Gx. Charge into Regirock, take a few prizes then Ninja Boy into Buzzwole for 4+ prizes.
     

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