Expand your horizons and make new friends on one of the largest Pokémon forums on the net!
Radiant Collection 2
Sun & Moon
Sword & Shield
Sword & Shield Black Star Promos
Black & White
Black & White Black Star Promos
X and Y Black Star Promos
Base Set 2
EX Ruby and Sapphire
EX Team Magma vs. Team Aqua
EX Hidden Legends
EX FireRed and LeafGreen
EX Team Rocket Returns
EX Unseen Forces
EX Delta Species
EX Legend Maker
EX Holon Phantoms
EX Crystal Guardians
EX Dragon Frontiers
EX Power Keepers
Diamond & Pearl
HeartGold & SoulSilver
Call of Legends
POP Series 1
POP Series 2
POP Series 3
POP Series 4
POP Series 5
POP Series 6
POP Series 7
POP Series 8
POP Series 9
HeartGold & SoulSilver Black Star Promos
Kalos Starter Set
X & Y Black Star Promos
Discussion in 'Pokémon Video Games' started by Water Pokémon Master, Nov 6, 2019.
Funny thing is none of this matters to me since I wont be buying the game. No Pidgey, no sale.
Honestly I'm really liking the sounds of all these things. I don't want to say anything for certain until I've played the game, but it's shaping up to possibly be my fave game since B/W/BW2.
Well like I said, inherently an action such as running back to the Pokemon Center does not add value to the game and it isn't very fun in any way. The only difference between having to do it or not having to do it is theoretically whether you spend time on it or not because it's just not a substantial gameplay feature.
So does that mean it should just be replaced with accessing healing from anywhere? Absolutely not because adding things like that starts breaking the game and it's very visible if you've ever played any games with cheats on. Once you reduce a game down to instantly being able to perform actions and remove features from the gameplay loop, things get weird and unfun.
Walking back to the Pokemon Center is inherently not a substantial or fun feature, and yet removing that and replacing it with instant healing would feel very wrong. The same way grinding for 2 hours to get a Pokemon's level up is not a very substantial use of your time and neither is it very fun, but remove that and do something like speeding the game up in an emulator and suddenly you just feel empty and lazy and the game feels unrewarding.
This. Pokemon isn't Dark Souls, they've never been challenging titles and they never will be.
I'll preface this by saying I do have patience for certain aspects of games with a slower pace, like JRPG's. (Also, I'm not trying to argue, and I know you aren't either. All I'm trying to do is explain why something like this is off putting to me. But my posts can be long-winded, and I'm sure that can seem argumentative.)
I just don't see how traveling to a Pokemon Center to access a PC is really that time-consuming. While you're playing through the story, one of the first things you do upon reaching a new town is visit the Pokemon Center. So if you need to access the PC, there it is; you didn't have to make a special trip for it. While progressing through a route, If for some reason you feel the need to go back and get a Pokemon from the PC, it shouldn't take too long to reach the Center again since routes are typically short in more recent games. Travelling to and from the Center might take 2 minutes? (Caves, however, could certainly take longer.) But now what reason would you have to get a Pokemon from the PC mid-route? HM's are no longer a thing, so you wouldn't need to get the right Pokemon to progress if it wasn't on your team. And if you have 6 Pokemon on your team and you catch a new Pokemon, the game now asks you if you want the new one on your team and to choose which Pokemon to send to the PC, which was a great change. So you don't have to travel to a Center if you immediately want that new Pokemon on your team. Once you get Fly (or its equivalent), reaching a PC is a short cut scene away. So I don't know how spending this small amount of time is a hindrance in modern generations.
With there being even fewer reasons to access a PC mid-travel, this new everywhere-PC just seems pointless. I'm assuming since this was in the Let's Go games and that didn't heal your Pokemon, it'll be the same in SwSh, which I suppose makes this relatively harmless. But the reason I don't care for it is what I said in my last post to someone else: Everyone knows that Pokémon games are designed with children in mind, but the increase of handholding and oversimplified solutions to problems that didn’t exist are what’s been off putting for me. I don't need the games to be difficult to think they're fun. But I also don't see the need for games to treat the player like a simpleton. Not to sound like a curmudgeon shaking my cane while saying "kids these days," but that reminds me of my nephew playing Pokemon games. Sun and Moon had characters telling you where to go next AND a map literally showing you where to go at all times, and he somehow still managed to get lost and asked me for help. He was probably 10 at the time. I know he's not dumb, but that was shocking to me. Side note, despite having a Switch and 3DS, he tends to gravitate towards garbage-y F2P mobile or PC games. I guess because they tend to give instant gratification? I don't get it. So something like the everywhere-PC seems designed for someone like him that needs instant gratification/access. Maybe it's just an unfortunate side effect of the current times? Oooorrr... if I were to think of anything that's different in SwSh, perhaps that open area really is so big that traveling through it would feel like a gauntlet if you did need access to a PC? Only thing I can think of.
I know you weren't trying to argue, if anything I was afraid my reply seemed argumentative. I only meant to add to why I personally think that simplification of gameplay features is a bad thing and even doing it with things that seem like they don't hold any value inherently to the player can hugely affect the enjoyment of the player.
I agree that it seems to have something to do with instant gratification. (This very thing is also what makes f2p games so effective in general. They give instant gratification and then take it away until the player pays money.)
Instant gratification also has to do with why it's bad to make actions instant and to simplify things too much. I also don't see any use in the everywhere-PC unless they really added something that makes getting your Pokemon in and out on the fly a necessary thing. I was also talking about instant healing the whole time while it is very likely if they added this that the healing from switching Pokemon around in your box has been removed. However even with that removed something about this feature or simplification just feels wrong. Was it really necessary?
Instant gratification is also the very reason cheats absolutely ruin the enjoyment of games. It seems really like your brain just needs that challenge and that the idea that you have to do something to get the gratification is important for enjoying anything. When you can instantly get shiny Pokemon because of Action Replay, that sounds fun at first thought maybe. "Oh every Pokemon I encounter will be shiny!". But then you actually do it and it's extremely boring. Afterwards shiny Pokemon are less special to you for a while as well until you throw away your cheats and possibly delete the cheated shinies.
I don't know how kids think anymore as I'm 20 now, but I do remember that as a child in Pokemon Emerald I got stuck a lot and the reason was that I couldn't actually read English but knew enough English to play the game still. I got stuck a lot and there wasn't much visual indication on where to go sometimes, but I still managed to get through.
Oh, good! I was only concerned about me coming off a argumentative. It’s one of those instances where you have a simple thought or opinion, and you fully understand your reason for it in your head. But once you start typing it out, it seems overly complex and way too long! But it sounds like we’re on the exact same page.
And also totally agreed with you on instant gratification through cheats. It’s one thing if a game offers something like a New Game+ and you get to keep your levels and/or equipment. You beat the game, you earned this, now go have fun. But it’s another if it’s cheating through unearned instant gratification. I certainly had Game Sharks and an Action Replay when I was younger. Instant shinies—whoa!! And even as recently as B&W, I remember requesting someone to get me a shiny Reshiram because I loved how it looks, but it was shiny locked. It wasn’t something to show off or something that had meaning, just something neat. Fast forward to Omega Ruby, I got the Shiny Charm for completing the Pokédex, and with a lot of time and patience, I caught my very own shiny Reshiram—and shiny Cresselia too! They’re irreplaceable and I’m very happy that I legitimately caught them. Not to sound sappy, but cheat codes granting instant gratification can’t compare to that. Shiny hunting isn’t for everyone; it’s very boring. But it’s incredibly satisfying when it works.
I can understand getting lost in older games, maybe Gen 1 through 3. Certain areas in those games might feel like, “Wait, where do I go next?” But Sun and Moon? Nope.
This is further proof that Game Freak trying to cater to two different audiences instead of both like they've done in the past has backfired on them tremendously and not in a good way either. It also didn't help matters with all the Kanto pandering in Let's Go, Pikachu / Eevee! either though I can see with the way the game was designed that competitive players felt left out because of it until Sword & Shield was officially announced. Still having that option of completing the National Dex is still ingrained within the foundation of the Pokémon franchise regardless If Game Freak refuses to accept it. I'm guessing that the "Gotta Catch 'Em All!" slogan is more popular outside Japan due to the success of the 4Kids dub.
I understand why they did it yet at the same time it's alienated more of their devoted customer base that's kept this video game franchise chugging along in sales. I don't think there will be enough people boycotting Sword & Shield to the point where the games sell less than 15 million units worldwide for Game Freak to get the message that they need to listen to consumer feedback and learn from their mistakes going into Gen 9. As much as I'd like for that to happen chances are that they're still going to continue to settle for mediocrity because it's worked for them in the past despite how the community wants a new approach to the video game franchise that's as groundbreaking as Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Super Mario Odyssey on the Nintendo Switch.