OU: Strategy Morals, Personal Views, and Pokemon

PG24

<Pride> I'm my wildest fantasy
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Morality and personal views in competitive Pokemon is a touchy issue that I have noticed over my time playing. Morality and personal views themselves are something we apply to everyday life to determine our judgements and opinions on issues. In Pokemon, we form a morality around what we believe the game should be and how we should play. Sometimes, these views are considered radical, eccentric, off, etc. by others. Here are some examples of common things I have noticed over time related to players' morals or personal views:

  • The game should be left unchanged and kept to its core, free of bans and other regulations in an attempt to make the game "fairer".
  • Strategies that revolve around gimmicks are discouraged by the way the metagame and others' views on them are set up.
  • The game should be regulated to the point where competitiveness and skill are more encouraged even if it makes the game more difficult for "worse" players.
  • "I believe in not using legendaries and/or any event exclusives."
    • Similar thinking, "I only use teams composed of my favorites no matter how bad they are."
  • The game should be regulated so that everything is put on an even scale. For example, Stealth Rock in previous generations was viewed by some as a factor that caused the wrong type of centralization by making Pokemon weak to it unusable.
  • The game itself is ruined by players who take an elitist, overly-competitive approach to things. These type of players are viewed as party poopers who suck the fun out of things.
  • The metagame has slowly digressed by Game Freak's own design to the point where it's unfixable (see: gen 5).
Ultimately, this raises various questions. At what point are morals and personal views "wrong"? Can they be wrong, or is it just that we view them as such based off our own morals and personal views? What are some of the morals and personal views you hold and why?
 
Yum, this is quite a controversial topic. Thank you :)

Just as morality and personal views influence our everyday decisions, I respect that they do the same to our views in Pokémon. While not every view is considered viable or optimal by the majority, they ought to be accepted, as close-mindedness is an unhealthy factor in the development of the metagame.
The game should be left unchanged and kept to its core, free of bans and other regulations in an attempt to make the game "fairer".
This imo can lead to untame and unruly metagames. The philosophy of power creeps are what I believe to be the epitome of this argument: "Even if Pokémon become more broken, the only difference from one generation to the next is the amount of power." I consider a ban-free metagame to be a giant dent in the fairness of anything - ban lists exist for a reason. A level playing field is not a completely new one with an insane power difference from the previous one but instead one that stays consistent and adapts to the introduction of new threats.
Strategies that revolve around gimmicks are discouraged by the way the metagame and others' views on them are set up.
This is a very true and prevalent philosophy, though I like others hate to agree with it. The concept of "netdecking" RMTs is a spawn of this because whatever is conventional and is having success is the "right way to go". This mentality discourages a lot of possible innovation, and while it is true that the majority of gimmicks are nothing more than what the term connotatively suggests, it deprives us of some of the intellectual challenges and overall fun, playing against carbon-copy after carbon-copy team on the ladder.
The game should be regulated to the point where competitiveness and skill are more encouraged even if it makes the game more difficult for "worse" players.
This one is the dividing line between overzealous competition and casual play. As one of those on the left side of this line, I do appreciate the regulation, as it ensures that there isn't an overwhelming incompetence amongst the people I play against. On the other hand, the line of separation is very detracting from the development of newer or less serious battlers. A clear example of this to me is the division in my track team among those who make it to meets and those who don't. It's the embodiment of "the good get better and the bad get worse," to put it in simple terms. I feel like that works the same in this philosophy's relation to Pokémon. It's definitely a controversial thing that has its pros and cons.
"I believe in not using legendaries and/or any event exclusives."
  • Similar thinking, "I only use teams composed of my favorites no matter how bad they are."
I'm not an advocate of this mentality, though I'm all but forced to respect it sometimes. I'm extremely competitive with many things that I do (well), and the limits that are self-imposed by these thoughts I can't begin to imagine placing on myself. I feel as if it's an unnecessary weight on your success, but again, the dividing line between competitiveness and fun sets this mentality in its own little pocket of validity. I know we're likely not to find a balance between these two mentalities.
The game should be regulated so that everything is put on an even scale. For example, Stealth Rock in previous generations was viewed by some as a factor that caused the wrong type of centralization by making Pokemon weak to it unusable.
This is the balanced metagame I was trying to elaborate on earlier. We ought to keep things on a level field rather than just raise standards to accommodate for the most broken new inductees. As I've said, "power creep" is not something I'm a fan of.
The game itself is ruined by players who take an elitist, overly-competitive approach to things. These type of players are viewed as party poopers who suck the fun out of things.
There's a fine difference between doing well and doing whatever you want. I believe in doing well; I possess a distinct success mentality with many things, and it's hard for me to take some things lightly given my competitive nature. On the other side, there is a certain degree of fun to be had by both mentalities - you can have fun succeeding in your goals, or you can have fun by virtue of free will and happy-go-lucky abandon. I respect that both of these clash, but being of the former thought process, I greatly enjoy the thrill of success and setting new records for myself (I have this mentality in running, card games, video games, etc.). I feel like this is a preferential choice, and it depends on your personality and in what you take the most pride in.
The metagame has slowly digressed by Game Freak's own design to the point where it's unfixable (see: gen 5).
Although we try to fight it, "power creeping" is just something we can't hold back. The game slowly rises in standards without us really analyzing it to figure out the correct limitations to put in place - thus, the #banallthings campaigns are regularly complained about by the laddering community. This is to me a very real truth; it's just that we haven't figured out how to properly contain the power creep. Admittedly this is a relatively stable relapse from the chaos of the fifth generation, but there is always room for improvement. Nothing is perfect :p

tl;dr I'm competitive, and I take great pride in success and achieving new accomplishments, but I feel it vital to understand and respect the various theories of how to play and maintain this game. An open-minded metagame is a healthy one, open to all possible solutions and working to establish a relative calm.
 
PG24 said:
Morality and personal views in competitive Pokemon is a touchy issue that I have noticed over my time playing. Morality and personal views themselves are something we apply to everyday life to determine our judgements and opinions on issues. In Pokemon, we form a morality around what we believe the game should be and how we should play. Sometimes, these views are considered radical, eccentric, off, etc. by others. Here are some examples of common things I have noticed over time related to players' morals or personal views:

  • The game should be left unchanged and kept to its core, free of bans and other regulations in an attempt to make the game "fairer".
  • Strategies that revolve around gimmicks are discouraged by the way the metagame and others' views on them are set up.
    [*]The game should be regulated to the point where competitiveness and skill are more encouraged even if it makes the game more difficult for "worse" players.
    [*]"I believe in not using legendaries and/or any event exclusives."
    • Similar thinking, "I only use teams composed of my favorites no matter how bad they are."
  • The game should be regulated so that everything is put on an even scale. For example, Stealth Rock in previous generations was viewed by some as a factor that caused the wrong type of centralization by making Pokemon weak to it unusable.
  • The game itself is ruined by players who take an elitist, overly-competitive approach to things. These type of players are viewed as party poopers who suck the fun out of things.
  • The metagame has slowly digressed by Game Freak's own design to the point where it's unfixable (see: gen 5).
Ultimately, this raises various questions. At what point are morals and personal views "wrong"? Can they be wrong, or is it just that we view them as such based off our own morals and personal views? What are some of the morals and personal views you hold and why?

The bold is mine and I'll only answer to those and the last text, since I'm not a TCG player but the ones that I've highlighted I think I can answer them without being a part of it.

Why does it bother if the game allows for "worse" players? Sure, the competitions may take longer since it'll have both good and bad players but those that are good and know it, shouldn't just try to brush off the others. If they're good, then they will be able to easily defeat the bad players. If they want something more exclusive then ask for it, ask for some kind of different set of rules or so for experienced players but still maintaining the "other" game as it is for others.
Well, if someone believes in not using legendaries and exclusives or only using the ones they like, fine. Again, just don't go wanting that for everyone if they don't want it.
I'm suggesting different rules or competitions for different players but having said that, I know that perhaps it can't be made simply because of lacking the means to it or the time that would be spent doing so much stuff.
"Answering" the broader questions, I judge others opinions based on my own values, experiences and moral and I do believe others do it too. Despite this, one might try to be more acceptable and try to look at the other side, try to understand what is behind the others opinion.
What I've been asking myself lately is how much should I give up on my opinions for the sake of allowing democracy, freedom of opinion (and not being stubborn) even if they seem dumb (couple that with relativism and I end up being very doubtful of everything, either mine or others).
As for the practical side, the wrong and right will depend on ones opinion which expresses a set of values and ideas. So, the thing is how many people share those same core ideas and values so they can make a majority that has the power to implement them in practice or even force things? The majority doesn't mean they're right but we'll know the power and dangers of the majorities but then again, I'm saying this thinking that I might be part of a minority wanting something that I view as not harmful (like various branches of challenges in TCG) but when the matter at hand is some core mechanic or something alike, then perhaps what I see as innocent might be harmful.
Sorry for this comment. It mirrors the relativism in which I find myself, questioning everyting, on one side with fear to give a straight answer and stick to it in order to not upset anyone (and please everybody) and on the other based on the premise that I know that I know nothing (and even this is questionable...:( )
 
Leaf_Ranger said:
Sorry for this comment. It mirrors the relativism in which I find myself, questioning everyting, on one side with fear to give a straight answer and stick to it in order to not upset anyone (and please everybody) and on the other based on the premise that I know that I know nothing (and even this is questionable...:( )

Hey, this is why we have these discussions. Don't be afraid to stick yourself out there and assert your position. Yours is a very valid one, and I wish we could all be as conscious as you regarding the choice between democracy and standards/demands. So yeah, don't be ashamed for questioning the placement of the bars a community sets.

The "overly competitive players ruin the fun" approach is typically held by steadfast conservatives from my experience, but you don't really seem like that. The rigidity of their arguments and the fierce attacks they throw at others on forums almost seems religious in nature. Of course, this opinion is probably the same for that exact brand of thinking in how many elitists tend to be condescending. It's quite the battle. I wish taking a side didn't get such silly reactions, but alas, I tend to just agree to disagree by default and let them think what they think. My experiences discussing these mentalities with conservatives are stupid enough to where I don't think it's worth the effort oftentimes. Like they say, you can't change a person, he has to change himself.
 
Uralya said:
Leaf_Ranger said:
Sorry for this comment. It mirrors the relativism in which I find myself, questioning everyting, on one side with fear to give a straight answer and stick to it in order to not upset anyone (and please everybody) and on the other based on the premise that I know that I know nothing (and even this is questionable...:( )

Hey, this is why we have these discussions. Don't be afraid to stick yourself out there and assert your position. Yours is a very valid one, and I wish we could all be as conscious as you regarding the choice between democracy and standards/demands. So yeah, don't be ashamed for questioning the placement of the bars a community sets.

The "overly competitive players ruin the fun" approach is typically held by steadfast conservatives from my experience, but you don't really seem like that. The rigidity of their arguments and the fierce attacks they throw at others on forums almost seems religious in nature. Of course, this opinion is probably the same for that exact brand of thinking in how many elitists tend to be condescending. It's quite the battle. I wish taking a side didn't get such silly reactions, but alas, I tend to just agree to disagree by default and let them think what they think. My experiences discussing these mentalities with conservatives are stupid enough to where I don't think it's worth the effort oftentimes. Like they say, you can't change a person, he has to change himself.

Thanks for your answer! :)

I wouldn't call that ridigity religious but rather fundamentalism, to the point where they won't listen and have that set of opinions as a "creed", in this case, pertaining to a game.
While I agree with your solution of agreeing to disagree since it'll avoid some headaches and waste of time, I think that caution is needed in order to avoid either side - wether the elitists or the commoners - gaining the upper hand to the point where they become a majority that might be heard by those who set the rules. It's a thing of choosing the battles. Like I've said, if possible and without harming and pushing others aside, it's welcome to have different rules, since the game led to branching, if not, while supporting the idea of creators paying attention to what fans and players have to say, until there's a way of trully knowing those that give their opinions are fans and that everyone who's a fan is involved, then it's best for the rules to stay only in the creators' hands.
 
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