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Alt. Format Mewtwo & Mew GX Tool Box WIP Decklist

Discussion in 'PTCG Deck Garage' started by Duo, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic V/V-MAX
    Duo

    Member

    Mewtwo and Mew GX is probably my favorite card coming out from Unified Minds mostly because it offers a high level of versatility. It can be splashed into any deck simply for things like weakness coverage (i.e. to not auto lose to water if you're a fire deck) and having a lot more HP (i.e. Blacephalon GX only having 180 HP which makes it easy to OHKO, but Metwo and Mew GX have 270 to stick around longer), and thanks to Cherish Ball and Mysterious Treasure - mostly Cherish Ball - basically any deck can utilize it consistently.

    I feel like building a deck completely around Mewtwo and Mew GX is very powerful because the tools you can run with it can challenge just about any deck.

    I'm still working on finding the best solution to getting energy, but that's why it's a WIP

    Pokemon x14

    Mewtwo & Mew GX x3
    Garchomp & Giratina GX x2
    Solgaleo GX Promo x2
    Latios GX x1
    Naganadel GX x1 (Unified Minds)
    Dragonite GX x1
    Jirachi GX x1
    Dedenne GX x1
    Mew x1 (Unbroken Bonds)
    Giratina x1 (Lost Thunder)

    Supporter x11

    Lillie x4
    Cynthia x4
    Hapu x3

    Item x22

    Mysterious Treasure x4
    Cherish Ball x4
    Acro Bike x4
    Great Catcher x3
    Switch x3
    Tag Switch x3
    Reset Stamp x1

    Stadium x3

    Viridian Forest x3

    Energy x10

    Psychic Energy x6
    Fighting Energy x4

    Gonna run down the reasonings like I usually do. Please see further posts for explanations of list changes.

    Mewtwo & Mew GX - The core of the deck. I think 2 copies is just fine since the deck has 4/4 Mysterious Treasure/Cherish Ball, giving you little to no risk of losing it to prizes and 10 ways to see it. The main reason to run it is the ability to access any other GX Pokemon's attack from either the bench or the discard pile, but the GX attack is pretty solid too.

    Garchomp & Giratina GX - Every GX Pokemon from here on out is played at 1 copy to be part of Mewtwo & Mew's toolbox. They can all stand on their own, and the ones that can be played onto the bench can also attack if needed. This card is really strong with both a decent 1 energy attack option to place some damage onto a future potential threat to later follow up with the attack that swings for 240 for only 3 energy and no other downsides than simply needing damage on something already. This card is supported by the Giratina from Lost Thunder which can passively put damage counters onto 2 of your opponent's essential Pokemon, which make both of them become at risk of getting followed up on by Garchomp & Giratina.

    Latios GX - This is an offensive/defensive utility inclusion. The only thing Tag teams are really in threat to get OHKO'd by is...other Tag Teams for the most part. Any exception has only 180 HP and can be dealt with with other cards in this list, so this card is included for any Tag Team match ups. The best part about running Latios with Mewtwo & Mew GX is that they won't carry the ability that Latios GX has that only allows it to attack with 5+ Pokemon in play. Latios GX also has free retreat, which makes it a great starting Pokemon in a Malamar based list if you so happen to see it in your opening hand.

    Naganadel GX - This is included to be able to hit 170 damage anywhere on the field. Combine this with Giratina, and you can "OHKO" snipe 2 benched Blacephalon GX back to back for 4 prizes. Most often I would see this as a way to close games by simply KOing someone's Dedenne GX, since basically every deck will have at least one on their bench by the time 4 prizes have already been taken. This card will never be played actively and simply take advantage of Mewtwo & Mew GX's ability to get the attack.

    Dragonite GX - Again taking advantage of the discard pile portion of Mewtwo & Mew GX's ability, this unlocks the ability to swing for 270 (Up to 280 if you play Giratina in advance), which allows you to OHKO any meta relevant Tag Team GX in the game...except if Wailord & Magikarp become meta relevant. The attack is very highly costed, but it also grants a very high reward. There will be a time & place where this is the best course of action.

    Jirachi GX - Basically here to prevent me from getting steamrolled by any other Psychic deck and other decks that are teching Mewtwo & Mew GX. I don't think there's any exception to playing this in this deck for the anti-psychic weakness. The GX attack is also a viable attack to be used on Mewtwo & Mew GX to force your opponent into attacking something else.

    Dedenne GX - I don't think this needs explaining.

    4/4 Malamar Line - This is where I'm sort of doubting my choices a bit. 4/4 Malamar is a lot of cards that take up a lot of space just for the purpose of energy acceleration, and even then you still need cards like Switch and Tag Switch to get the energy where it needs to be. You might have noticed Tag Switch in the list. The goal is to Malamar a bunch of energy onto a Tag Team GX on my bench, then Tag Switch it onto my active. The other alternative is to play regular switch so I can just move the Pokemon and energy all at once, since the only Tag Team GXs in the list right now are ones I would actually attack with. A lot of attacks that I utilize in this list discard energy from attacking, so this is a good way to keep energy passively moving to stream attacks. But again, this method of energy acceleration is completely bottlenecked by seeing Switch or Tag Switch even when I already have all the energy I need on the board. This list only ever really needs 2 Malamar in play to accomodate for everything, but you have to play 4/4 to maximize the consistency, IMO. I almost want to increase counts of Giratina and Garchomp & Giratina GX and rely on an attack that doesn't discard energy as often so that I can run a thinner Malamar line.

    Mew - Between the new Naganadel GX and PikaRom's GX attack, Dedenne GX is at a lot of risk of just losing you the game outright to some free bench damage. Latios GX and Jirachi GX have similar weaknesses. Having Mew prevents these auto loss conditions against decks that have the ability to effortlessly spread damage around.

    Giratina - The ability is pretty good in this list. It helps hit numbers and enables Garchomp & Giratina GX on two of your opponent's Pokemon. This will become even better when Great Catcher release in Remix Bout so you can immediately capitalize on it.

    Not going to explain Lillie or Cynthia since I consider them to be no brainers.

    Sightseer - This deck benefits from both Pokemon and energy being in the discard pile. Full hand dumps to stock up on both departments is a huge win for this deck.

    4/4 Mysterious Treasure/Cherish Ball - Max consistency. Treasure gets your Malamar Line and other Psychic techs, Cherish Ball gets everything else.

    Acro Bike - An amazingly good card in this deck since, like the reasoning with Sightseer, you can gain advantages from the card that gets thrown out if you see either a GX Pokemon or energy in one of the two cards you pick up.

    Switch - With no free retreat options, you have to run Switch to prevent yourself from getting caught by Custom Catcher or any other gusting effects, or just to a really unideal starting Pokemon. Also just gets prepped attackers into the active since Malamar only puts energy on the bench.

    Tag Switch - No regular energy switch because between the 3 Tag Teams in this deck and the 8 cards that search them, you should never be in a situation where you aren't putting energy on your Tag Teams to move around by the time you get a Malamar or two in play. Saves on deck space compared to moving only 1 energy at a time, and enables turn 2 attacking.

    Viridian Forest - Helps you get that pesky Fighting Energy run at low counts just to enable Garchomp & Giratina GX's attacks. Also a discard outlet that can put Naganadel/Dragonite GX and energy in the discard pile. Also stadium wars.

    9/3 Energy Split - A good portion of attacks in this deck involve a colorless energy, so running a few extra Fighting energy doesn't really hurt at all to use them as your attach for turn. 12 energy should be more than enough to see the deck through since no attack in the list costs more than 5 energy.

    This is a list I'm going to have to sit on for a while to decide everything that I want in it, but I think the basic principles are there. The deck can hit all relevant numbers to all points of the field, even without gusting, while offering anti-damage sources to keep yourself safe. The deck's biggest weakness is to prizing the exact 1 of I needed for the exact match up, but that's a weakness for all toolbox decks.

    Biggest question for me is the best way to put on energy in relation to how often I'll be using certain attacks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019


  2. Mysticvulpix Just be chill
    Mysticvulpix

    Member

    Wow, I really like this list. I’m actually thinking that I might play something along the lines of this. That said, I think some things might need to be fixed.
    First off, I feel there are quite a few techs in here, and the low consistency scares me a bit. Maybe add a mewtwo+mew or Giratina+garchomp? Yes, you do get cards before prizes, but a mulligan has a chance to happen here. Another option might be one or two copies of Brock’s grit, as it can help later game and if your deck starts to run low.

    Also, I feel pokegear might want to be in this deck, as refreshing hands is exactly what might be needed. As you said, energy may be a problem, so if you can get consistent supporters through it it can help.

    I hope this helps, and would love your feedback! After all, I am highly interested in this build!
     
  3. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic V/V-MAX
    Duo

    Member

    I've been thinking about this deck ever since I posted it and looked around at other Mewtwo & Mew GX tool box decks and have seen some of them run a Welder based build and focusing on fire and Reshizard as their primary attacker of choice. I personally prefer my psychic build overall because the attack spread and consistency offered by 4/4 Cherish Ball + Mysterious Treasure I think holds some massive advantages. Garchomp & Giratina GX also has a very valuable 1 energy attack and has no attack restrictions preventing it from swinging twice in a row, which I think makes it a better attacker. T1 Lillie is also just stronger than T1 Welder, in my opinion, partially because you aren't guaranteed 2 energy in your opening hand to begin with.

    Pretty much all of the lists I've seen run a heavy count of 1 of techs because, well, that's just what a toolbox list is about. I believe I mentioned in the original post that losing to having the specific techs you need for specific match ups and timings in your prizes is a general problem for the deck that I'm aware of, which in response to your suggestion, increasing the counts of Mewtwo & Mew GX, Garchomph & Giratina GX, or both would help improve my basic consistency.

    The main problem comes with my energy acceleration options, and that problem I think can actually be resolved by the promo Solgaleo GX and its 2 colorless cost Turbo Strike. By that ends, I think I can make a very easy update to the list.

    -4/4 Inkay/Malamar line

    +1 Mewtwo & Mew GX
    +1 Garchomp & Giratina GX
    +2 Solgaleo GX (Promo)

    I think by including 2 copies of Solgaleo GX Promo as energy acceleration, it is acceptable to remove the 4/4 Inkay/Malamar line up. 2 copies because I want to see it and discard it as soon as possible, and I never want it to be prized otherwise the deck just loses right away most likely.

    I see this as acceptable because Turbo Strike can put energy onto benched Tag Team Pokemon, and then Tag Switch can move all those energy in bulk to my active if I want to go for something like Dragonite's attack. Malamar can only ever come out as soon as turn 2 of the game, so Malamar does nothing to help you use Turbo Strike any sooner, even if you are going second turn 1 (in which case you would probably just use Garchomp & Giratina GX's first attack and start buttering things up). Malamar becomes kind of pointless if I'm focusing on Garchomp & Giratina GX's attacks which don't discard energy anyway which is why I was so uncomfortable expending 8 deck slots to it.

    Additionally, the 120 damage offered by Turbo Strike is a pretty perfect clean up attack. Dragonite GX has the only attack that I expect to OHKO Tag Team GXs, but Turbo Strike plus any other attack can 2 hit KO a lot of things while accelerating energy at the same time. For example, copying Nagandel's attack to snipe for 170 discards 2 energy from 4 to use the attack, which puts me back to 2 which is exactly enough to Turbo Strike next turn. If I choose to just attack into the active or hit the bench and then gust the same target next turn, I can swing for 170 + 120 which will KO anything in the format and get those 2 energies back which I can just Tag Switch next turn to put onto the active. Rinse and repeat, or go for a new strategy.

    I'm spinning a lot of possible play options through my head so it probably sounds like I'm just ranting, but I think Turbo Strike is the solution to save deck space on a 4/4 Malamar line.

    As for the other 4 spaces I opened up:

    +4 Custom Catcher

    With Naganadel GX and Giratina in the list, you just have to have gusting options to capitalize on bench sniping. These 4 spaces will become 3-4 Great Catchers in the future. I think 3 Great Catcher 1 Reset Stamp is actually the correct replacement for these.

    -2 Sightseer
    +2 Hapu

    To clean up the list even further, I think Hapu is a mandatory supporter for the list and better than Sightseer. Between Dedenne GX, Mysterious Treasure, and Viridian Forest, the deck already runs a good handful of hand selection discard. Playing Hapu will allow me to keep 2 discard 4 which can massively load my discard pile and my hand with necessary resources. Hapu is particularly beneficial for things like if I have the 1st Custom Catcher in my hand and need to see the second. Hapu will always dig deeper than Sightseer and I need this utility in the deck.

    -1 Psychic Energy
    -1 Fighting Energy

    +1 Hapu
    +1 Acro Bike

    I think Hapu is so necessary that she needs to be run at 3 copies, and I want the 4th Acro Bike in order to further maximize digging and discarding. I think 12 energy is too much for a deck that runs 3 Viridian Forest to always make sure you have energy in hand anyway. 10 energy should be just fine, and 2 Fighting is also fine since you only ever need 1 of them around to make Garchomp & Giratina useable.


    I think Pokegear 3.0 would be good for the list as well, but I also don't think the deck has room for it. It can grab crucial supporters, but I think the deck just needs so many other tools that there just isn't room for it.

    EDIT: Looking again at energy requirements, the most Psychic energy I'll ever need for any attack in the deck is 3, which is for Jirachi's GX attack. The extra 4th energy for the bonus effect of Mewtwo and Mew GX can be anything, and then things like Latios and Naganadel GX only need 1 Psychic and a bunch of colorless.

    That being said, it's much more favorable to run a more even energy split so that I don't have to struggle so hard to see my fighting energy. I think a 6 psychic/4 fighting split is ideal. I only ran a bunch of psychic before because Malamar can only touch psychic. Turbo Strike can get any basic energy on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  4. Mysticvulpix Just be chill
    Mysticvulpix

    Member

    I took a look at the changes, and some I agree with. For example, I do think running so many psychic energy and fighting might be an error, so that’s a possible good play.
    However, I’m not enjoying the solgaleo change. The reason you run the Malamar line is so that your energy Is constant, and can be charged pre-attack. It’s a way to hit good numbers while also getting a charge. With solgaleo, your sacrificing energy consistency before attacks, for what becomes a meh attack output. I’d rather wait for a well set-up turn two instead of a semi-good turn one.
    Basically, image this: you’ve got the solgaleo in discard and mewtwo up front t1. You still need to manually charge both turns, and you’ll only be hitting 120 and charging energy. Plus, the attack is useless in a scenario where you need to hit back right after getting KO’d yourself. Malamar, on the other hand, gets down turn two and can get down to business. As long as you do the same things you would with solgaleo (discarding energy) you can get yourself a Giratina attack, or basically any attack, turn two, giving you big number possibilities. And that’s if you only hit one T2. With multiple, bench charging is easy.
    Also, the Hapu in this deck... I’m nervous of decking out here. You basically eat yourself up to lose twelve cards to discard if you use all three. That leaves you a maximum of 26 card in hand if you use all three. While I support using two, three is too many. So do the swap for sightseer, but don’t with energy. I’d ay this: run 3/3 Malamar and add the Giratina and mewtwo for conistency, and see if there may be somewhere else to add the custom catchers.
     
  5. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic V/V-MAX
    Duo

    Member

    The thing is I don't think Garchomp & Giratina GX is an attacker that necessarily needs that kind of energy acceleration, especially because, as I stated in that post, none of the attacks involved with it discard energy upon attack, and it has a very good 1 energy attack that helps it follow up KO any meta relevant Tag Team GX later down the road. Once you get the 3 energy on you're basically set, and Tag Switch can help you move that energy around in the same manner that people play Energy Switch/Tag Switch in PikaRom so that you can move energy around to healthier Pokemon if your active gets bullied a lot.

    What I think this is boiling down to is me trying to make a list that's doing too many things at once. I'm trying to combine a Mewtwo and Mew GX toolbox with a Garchomp & Giratina deck, which is spreading myself too thin. When you look at energy efficiency and general consistency, it's probably just generally in my favor to just run a Garchomp & Giratina GX focused list, because frankly Garchomp & Giratina GX is a card that takes care of it all by itself. Honestly, you can win games just by slapping the 40 damage onto two tag teams on your opponent's side of the field, then swing 240 on them later for game. The base 160 damage of the second attack is also strong enough to just gust Dedenne GX's for game whenever you feel like it. Having the tech cards is nice, but perhaps it's not what the deck is supposed to be about, because the more I review the list the more I just want to use Garchomp & Giratina GX.

    So basically if I did something like this:


    -2 Mewtwo & Mew GX
    -2 Solgaleo GX
    -1 Latios GX
    -1 Naganadel GX
    -1 Dragonite GX
    -1 Jirachi GX

    +1 Garchomp & Giratina GX
    +4 Inkay
    +3 Malamar

    That would make my Pokemon line up look like the following:

    Garchomp & Giratina GX x3
    Mewtwo & Mew GX x1
    Dedenne GX x1
    Inkay x4
    Malamar x3
    Druddigon x1
    Giratina x1

    Mewtwo & Mew GX becomes included for a useful GX attack in case GG End GX isn't the right choice. It also gives you an option to prevent you from getting destroyed by fairy decks (don't underestimate Gardevoir & Sylveon GX). All the other cute tech options go away and you're simply focused on spreading damage around with Garchomp & Giratina's first attack. I think 4/3 Malamar line is fine because this deck doesn't focus on discard energy on attack. You really only need 1 Malamar in play to get a Garchomp & Giratina live by turn 2. All extra Malamars just go towards setting up back up attackers. 4 Inkay I think still helps so that you can maximize your chances of getting it out T1 to evolve.

    Druddigon comes in from Unified Minds so that it can, for 2 colorless energy, gust an opponent's Pokemon to the active and deal 30 damage to that new active. You can then retreat it the following turn and move up a Garchomp & Giratina GX to swing for 240. That 270 damage will handle up to every Tag Team GX that's relevant (except for that 280 HP Dark Tag Team, in which case add Giratina's ability for 10 more). It forces your opponent to retreat or have some kind of switching option and can be incredibly disuptive. I'm less concerned about Mew in the list because I don't have nearly as many bench targets for PikaRom to snipe for free prizes. Giratina is still a great pick to pre-emptively put damage counters on Stage 1s or Basics with 170+ HP that can later be gusted by Custom Catcher/Great Catcher for the KO. Giratina's Shadow Impact is also basically your only out to anti-tag team and anti-GX like Latios GX, other than Druddigon just gusting those problems out of the active for you.

    And now that I'm not really worried about stocking my discard pile with all of my tech cards, Hapu can become something else and dropped back down to 2 copies. Erika's Hospitality or Coach Trainer are good options I think (leaning more towards Coach Trainer since Erika is basically unplayable in the first 2 turns of the game since your opponent has no bench yet anyway).

    -3 Hapu
    +2 Coach Trainer
    +1 Switch

    4 Switch just so you can maximize your own board movement freedom.

    I also want to tilt the energy ratio slightly more in favor of Psychic again, so I would go for 7 Psychic 3 Fighting in this situation.

    Perhaps I changed the list too far in a different direction, but perhaps that's good? Will continue to consider my options.
     
  6. Mysticvulpix Just be chill
    Mysticvulpix

    Member

    I feel interested, but I’m unsure. I think best move is to play test a bunch and see what works best
     
  7. Duo Dreaming of a Milotic V/V-MAX
    Duo

    Member

    Yeah. I'm still trying to figure out a deck I really want to play post rotation. It's hard to find a match. Rayquaza GX and attack-based acceleration was my favorite playstyle, but it's a shame that it kind of just dies to a bunch of stuff. Haven't really found a deck style that emulates Ray but can keep up with the meta. I've honestly considered Latias & Latios GX to have that same kind of GX attack of Zeraora, and it's a beefy 250 HP Pokemon that can swing 240 damage without any set up, but I know that's not the right play for this list, even with Viridian Forest allowing me to run both Water and Fighting energy.

    Need to make time for playtesting some time, really.
     
  8. Mysticvulpix Just be chill
    Mysticvulpix

    Member

    True. I’m testing between two Malamar variants and dark box, as they’re cheap and good.
     
  9. Skater_J Aspiring Trainer
    Skater_J

    Member


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