Ruling mario or nidokingler
- Thread starter flareon breeder
- Start date
Pokeric, you should go against a player who is good with Mario to see which is better. 3-4 Games sounds good. you can't just go by 1.
There are so many variables in Pokemon, not just deck to deck but event to event and game to game and player to player, and as a lot of people have pointed out, you cannot claim that any one deck is better than another just because of theoretical this or that, or because in isolated instances your deck won over this archetype or that archetype. This is especially true if you play solitairre games, or games against the same handful of people. As has already been suggested, take this to Battle Roads or some other legitimate, balanced, real life tournament. Then, if you're still confident, take it to Cities. Then take it to Regionals. And so on and so forth. Thing is, every game is going to be different, and especially when you start ascending the ranks (if you make it to the top-tier events such as Nationals/Worlds), you are truly going to be playing against people who know this game inside and out, and who know archetypes like Mario inside and out, and who will take all of your preconceived theories about how great your deck is and FORCE you to back them up in the heat of the moment, in person, when it counts. Until then, everything you think you know about the awesomeness of Nidokingler is going to be distorted, speculatory, theoretical, etc..
Also, I think you misunderstand the potency of Mario. It does not have to get a KO on turn 1 to win. That is not mandatory. It just does possess more of an ability to get quick KOs than most decks. Mario may not be all about finesse or intricate combos, but it can have mid-to-late game longevity. Look at its core. Lucario comes out of the gate fast and hard, a 90 HP stage 1 hitting for 40 turn 2 or resistance-evading 30 turn 1. That isn't something to scoff at. He also softens up benched Pokemon at the same time that he's dealing 40 to the active. Again, good stuff. Then you factor in disruption cards like Cessation Crystal and Battle Frontier, and you're hurting a lot of decks, because a lot of decks rely heavily on Powers/Bodies and your deck doesn't. Also factor in Machamp. It has 130 HP and is NOT an Ex, so it doesn't give up two prizes, its first attack does 70 for 1 energy if the opponent got a prize off you last turn, and its second attack does a possible 90 plus confusion for 3. It can "retaliate" for cheap and get you an easy prize, it can clean, it can come out early and give them trouble from the start. For a stage 2, it also has one of the most solid evolution lines out right now. Machop is a real Haymaker of a Pokemon. It is how a lot of first turn KOs happen if they happen at all-- 20 x 2 for 1 energy + 10 from PlusPower/Strength Charm and you've taken down a lot of common Pokemon, including Eevee, Skitty, Holon's Castform, and Pikachu. It also puts a dent in cards like Absol ex. Basically this deck is very solid and does not simply crumble if you can't get some extremely quick KOs in (although the deck is designed to maximize the odds of this). The Pokemon have great HP, they attack for cheap, they do solid/heavy damage, Lucario snipes, Machamp can Confuse, they don't have double weakness, they don't have Powers, their type is one that a lot of Pokemon have weakness to, etc.. You can't just write Mario off so easily, especially not when it is in the hands of a seasoned player.
Also, you should post an in-depth analysis yourself of exactly why you think Nidokingler has an edge over Mario instead of relying on other people to do it. Maybe you have some good points. Maybe you don't. Either way, I think the disclosure of such an analysis would help give some meaning to this thread.
Also, I think you misunderstand the potency of Mario. It does not have to get a KO on turn 1 to win. That is not mandatory. It just does possess more of an ability to get quick KOs than most decks. Mario may not be all about finesse or intricate combos, but it can have mid-to-late game longevity. Look at its core. Lucario comes out of the gate fast and hard, a 90 HP stage 1 hitting for 40 turn 2 or resistance-evading 30 turn 1. That isn't something to scoff at. He also softens up benched Pokemon at the same time that he's dealing 40 to the active. Again, good stuff. Then you factor in disruption cards like Cessation Crystal and Battle Frontier, and you're hurting a lot of decks, because a lot of decks rely heavily on Powers/Bodies and your deck doesn't. Also factor in Machamp. It has 130 HP and is NOT an Ex, so it doesn't give up two prizes, its first attack does 70 for 1 energy if the opponent got a prize off you last turn, and its second attack does a possible 90 plus confusion for 3. It can "retaliate" for cheap and get you an easy prize, it can clean, it can come out early and give them trouble from the start. For a stage 2, it also has one of the most solid evolution lines out right now. Machop is a real Haymaker of a Pokemon. It is how a lot of first turn KOs happen if they happen at all-- 20 x 2 for 1 energy + 10 from PlusPower/Strength Charm and you've taken down a lot of common Pokemon, including Eevee, Skitty, Holon's Castform, and Pikachu. It also puts a dent in cards like Absol ex. Basically this deck is very solid and does not simply crumble if you can't get some extremely quick KOs in (although the deck is designed to maximize the odds of this). The Pokemon have great HP, they attack for cheap, they do solid/heavy damage, Lucario snipes, Machamp can Confuse, they don't have double weakness, they don't have Powers, their type is one that a lot of Pokemon have weakness to, etc.. You can't just write Mario off so easily, especially not when it is in the hands of a seasoned player.
Also, you should post an in-depth analysis yourself of exactly why you think Nidokingler has an edge over Mario instead of relying on other people to do it. Maybe you have some good points. Maybe you don't. Either way, I think the disclosure of such an analysis would help give some meaning to this thread.
i think it's depend on the situation. but surely, nidokingler is the better deck.
it's like nidokingler's deck has a 65% potential of winning while mario 35%.
no heart's feeling okay guyz
it's like nidokingler's deck has a 65% potential of winning while mario 35%.
no heart's feeling okay guyz
You didnt like The Dr. Eric show 
that hurts Draek...I think Im gonna cry ok but anyways Im not saying anything else about Nidokingler Im just gonna keep testing it and fixing it so I can use it for BR
holey crap butler I didnt even read half of that, I thinks its more than I typed in my entire life
that hurts Draek...I think Im gonna cry ok but anyways Im not saying anything else about Nidokingler Im just gonna keep testing it and fixing it so I can use it for BRholey crap butler I didnt even read half of that, I thinks its more than I typed in my entire life
@Butler
Wow. What decks want to start with Absol ex anywayz >_> those are screwed anyhow.
Oh and Mario likes to start with Riolu better, probably because a T1 Lucario Feint has about the same chance of a T1 draw of Pluspower + Machop + energy.
@Pokeric
Butler has a point. (which your probably missed, since you told us you didn't read it all)
Try to battle more R-Gon, Mario and Infercatty players and you'll see how matches USUALLY will go. And then post a piece of analysis about it.
Something like this (I made this up so it isn't all pro, but meh, go search site for better ones)
Infercatty vs. RaiEggs 80/20
RaiEggs would ideally start with Pikachu, where Infercatty would probably start with Chimchar. From there, it's pretty straightforward for Infercatty. A T1/T2 Infernape will beat the hell out of any Raichu, even with a Metal energy on it. In later game, watch out for Zzzap and Split Bombs, since Cursed Stones is poking those Catties to death. Infercatty plays Windstorm anywayz (also getting rid of CC), so that shouldn't be all that much of a problem. This should be easy game for Infercatty, seeing how Infernape KOs anything in RaiEggs with 1 DRE, where RaiEggs needs at least 1 normal energy + 1 DRE to do some decent damage (not counting Zzzap) The only real chance RaiEggs has is to Warp Point out some of the Catty exes, but Infercatty will send out the Catty PKs (or a 2nd Infernape, of course), since those are more expendable. Both Catty and Catty ex have Fighting weakness, so that's what your opponent wants Infercatty to have out while Delta Circling or Split Bombing you. Then again, Catty ex can OHKO anything in RaiEggs easily as well, so not that much problems here. Alltogether, this should be an almost autowin for Infercatty once Infernape starts doing 80s consistently.
Wow. What decks want to start with Absol ex anywayz >_> those are screwed anyhow.
Oh and Mario likes to start with Riolu better, probably because a T1 Lucario Feint has about the same chance of a T1 draw of Pluspower + Machop + energy.
@Pokeric
Butler has a point. (which your probably missed, since you told us you didn't read it all)
Try to battle more R-Gon, Mario and Infercatty players and you'll see how matches USUALLY will go. And then post a piece of analysis about it.
Something like this (I made this up so it isn't all pro, but meh, go search site for better ones)
Infercatty vs. RaiEggs 80/20
RaiEggs would ideally start with Pikachu, where Infercatty would probably start with Chimchar. From there, it's pretty straightforward for Infercatty. A T1/T2 Infernape will beat the hell out of any Raichu, even with a Metal energy on it. In later game, watch out for Zzzap and Split Bombs, since Cursed Stones is poking those Catties to death. Infercatty plays Windstorm anywayz (also getting rid of CC), so that shouldn't be all that much of a problem. This should be easy game for Infercatty, seeing how Infernape KOs anything in RaiEggs with 1 DRE, where RaiEggs needs at least 1 normal energy + 1 DRE to do some decent damage (not counting Zzzap) The only real chance RaiEggs has is to Warp Point out some of the Catty exes, but Infercatty will send out the Catty PKs (or a 2nd Infernape, of course), since those are more expendable. Both Catty and Catty ex have Fighting weakness, so that's what your opponent wants Infercatty to have out while Delta Circling or Split Bombing you. Then again, Catty ex can OHKO anything in RaiEggs easily as well, so not that much problems here. Alltogether, this should be an almost autowin for Infercatty once Infernape starts doing 80s consistently.
Pokeric: That "I didn't read half of that" line is kind of revealing. It's like you're openly admitting that you don't care much for advice or constructive criticism. Just because what I type is "long" doesn't mean you should skim through it and then dismiss it. I said pertinent things, and at the very end I even made a direct suggestion to you (post an in-depth analysis of why Nidokingler has an edge over Mario). It kind of defeats the point of asking questions when you don't even listen to the answers (I know you didn't start this particular thread but you are the "auteur" behind Nidokingler and thus its biggest proponent/the one who all of this discussion benefits most).
StealthAngel667: Yeah I was just thinking of popular basic fighting- weak Pokemon. Starting with Absol ex would be uncool, but I'm sure it does happen (it's a possibility). It was really just an afterthought though (even mentioning Absol ex). That card does go down later in the game rather easily though to both Lucario and Machamp. As far as the preferred Riolu start, I'd say that's going to vary with the player. Getting a turn 3 fully powered Machamp out might be more appealing in certain games, or a turn 1 Machop doing a guaranteed 20/40 followed by a turn 2 Machoke doing (likely) 40/80 might be more of a sure-fire way to KO even non-fighting weak starters. You also don't always have the luxury of choosing between Riolu and Machop as openers-- sometimes it'll just be one or the other in your opening hand, and in that case, Machop can still apply the beatdown. I guess in my Mario analysis I should've just said that Machop can get T1 KOs as easily as Lucario (or a lucky Riolu). Because relatively speaking, it can.
StealthAngel667: Yeah I was just thinking of popular basic fighting- weak Pokemon. Starting with Absol ex would be uncool, but I'm sure it does happen (it's a possibility). It was really just an afterthought though (even mentioning Absol ex). That card does go down later in the game rather easily though to both Lucario and Machamp. As far as the preferred Riolu start, I'd say that's going to vary with the player. Getting a turn 3 fully powered Machamp out might be more appealing in certain games, or a turn 1 Machop doing a guaranteed 20/40 followed by a turn 2 Machoke doing (likely) 40/80 might be more of a sure-fire way to KO even non-fighting weak starters. You also don't always have the luxury of choosing between Riolu and Machop as openers-- sometimes it'll just be one or the other in your opening hand, and in that case, Machop can still apply the beatdown. I guess in my Mario analysis I should've just said that Machop can get T1 KOs as easily as Lucario (or a lucky Riolu). Because relatively speaking, it can.
instead of calling it NidoKingler, you should call it Kingdom instead. less obvious (although everyone here is going to know anyway). but yeah, keep testing it aganst whatever they said and keep editing your list.
Yeah but what I meant is that if you are not gonna play Lucario early game, you won't be playing it at all, since Machamp is stronger. And playing it T1 is ideal most of the time, since about 40% of the decks have a fighting-weak possible starter.