Finished Mafia LXI: Forest Fire: Game Over!

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by NinjaPenguin, Jul 9, 2020.

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  1. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    I mean, the Ephe wagon was perfectly good and right there, with two active players voicing their support for it, it should've been an attractive wagon to avoid scrutiny - hence our brilliant theory that there was scum in your votes.

    Cel is a perfectly good player even though sometimes he hangs on the lower activity side of things, but being new she couldn't have known that unless someone more experienced (Mega) told her about it. Cel is infamous for getting killed/eliminated early on (or at least that's the way it feels, sorry Cel lmao), but there was no way for her to know that.
     


  2. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    Maybe, but when you panic-vote you usually go for the safer/more popular wagon, which is not what Lily did there.
     
  3. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    Geez, I'm talking myself into doubting Jabber. Hopefully he comes around for comment, but until then I'm putting my imaginary vote on him.
     
  4. Ephemera Faerie of the Viridian Forest
    Ephemera

    Member

    i mean at the time Cel was the more popular wagon

    gonna check scattered's ISO, then leave the game in your hands.

    one point in favor of scattered – mega's piggybacking strategy went off of town cases, the pushes mega made on D2 were related to scattered.
     
  5. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    Was he? iirc Lily was on the latter half of Cel votes, but was not one of the last.
     
  6. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    lol when Lily was actually the very last vote on Celever
     
  7. Ephemera Faerie of the Viridian Forest
    Ephemera

    Member

    scattered did a lot less D2 than I expected.

    reading back on D2 i'm honestly surprised we caught scum there, low activity, etc etc.

    points not in favor of scattered:
    i kinda noticed that he's careful about his progression. could be scum making sure his reads were consistent and making sure people knew that as well.

    honestly I have no idea whether it's scattered or jabber (or maybe bb in a tinfoil world but please don't vote bb lol that's HIGHLY unlikely) so i think i should
    ##UNVOTE: Jabberwock

    scattered:
    • + feels similar to his towngames
    • + doesn't care if he looks scummy
    • - cares about his progression
    • - very close to mega, but this is weird in which that I don't know if a scumbuddy actually does this
    jabber:
    preface this with the fact that jabber is kind of a blind spot for me in this game, skimmed his ISO but I'm not too sure how well I understood
    • + very solvy
      • unfortunately this may not count for too much because if jabber were scum he'd be solving alone anyhow with no buddy to work with
    • + good analysis
      • feels genuine I guess, someone else could maybe check that
    • - Lily was weird, a little sus in hindsight with the no vote D2 and the Cel vote D1
    honestly Jabber is kind of a null here.

    But I think I'm gonna need to vote. From my scattered ISO, I realized that there wasn't as much basis for my townread as I thought there was.
    Scattered, if you're town, please forgive me.
    ##GOODNIGHT: scattered mind
    (i legit need to sleep really soon so no more analysis posts from me, although maybe short messages might come)

    I hope my thoughts on both scattered and jabber help a little with the solving.
    Go, town!
     
  8. Ephemera Faerie of the Viridian Forest
    Ephemera

    Member

    ngl i'm hoping jade was able to save someone but I know it's really unlikely.

    i just want scum to ignite tonight, and have D5 start with three people instead of the two that would make scum win :U

    if that happens nice one jade and also good luck to townies in that theoretical F3 lol
     
  9. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    This is the post where Lily votes Cel. Lily's been absent for most of the game, but she says she needs to make a vote, and quick. It sounds like someone pushed/reminded Lily to make a vote, and looking at the vote count the Celever/Ephe wagons were 4-2, so Cel was definitely the most popular wagon This bothers me so much because it's such a mix of things.

    Points for scum!Lily/Jabber
    • Wording: "I need to make a vote quickly", implying that if she didn't something negative would've happened, pointed out by Mega in the scum chat. People were already being a bit wary of Lily, so not voting might have put her at even more risk.
    • Target: Celever was the leading wagon by far and it had gained a ton of momentum, so when Cel flipped town it could've been shrugged off reasonably, especially since Cel's wagon was already too ahead for her to tip the scales anyway.
    • Apology: Knowing Cel was town and thus unjustly driven to his elimination, she feels bad for him and apologizes. Her vote wasn't even decisive in which one got eliminated, so it couldn't have been an apology for sealing his fate.
    Points for town!Lily/Jabber
    • Wording: "I need to make a vote quickly", because if she didn't she'd be wasting her way of contributing to the town, and so people might come after her even more. Somewhat less valid than the scum!Lily version because her vote on Cel did not actually matter.
    • Target: Mega was already voting Celever, why would he tell his buddy to vote for the same person knowing they'd flip town, especially if said townie already has enough votes anyway?
    • ??? There's just so much overlap in motives taht it's hard to pick apart.
    That being said, why didn't she just not vote?? That's what irks me the most: she was absent for most of D1, then popped in because she needed to make a vote, but didn't make that vote count by voting Celever, who was already gonna get eliminated had she not intervened - not to mention that Mega was already on that wagon.
     
  10. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    If you won't be around for EoD and aren't sure about your vote, I think it'd be better not to leave it just lying around in case it matters.
     
  11. Jabberwock #Jovimohnaeliackvid
    Jabberwock

    Forum Mod Member

    I can't defend against anything Lily said or did because I don't know her reasoning. I could speculate, but that would be WIFOM.

    scattered didn't refute the points on him as well as bb reckons he did; lemme pull out specific quotes.

    Skimmed the case on Vom; will read it in greater detail once I've addressed scattered's responses.
     
  12. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    I guess not, but what do you think of the points I made about her vote?
     
  13. Ephemera Faerie of the Viridian Forest
    Ephemera

    Member

    oh uh
    sure, if you want me to

    ##UNGOODNIGHT: scattered mind

    I'm just slightly concerned if Jade/bb can't make it to EoD as well
     
  14. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    BB said he likely won't make it, dunno about @Jadethepokemontrainer. Jabber and scattered seem to be around so we can probably get something going here.
     
  15. Vom Shocking Puns
    Vom

    Forum Mod Member

    To put it this way, you either must trust me a lot, or are scum trying to not draw attention towards EoD.
     
  16. Jabberwock #Jovimohnaeliackvid
    Jabberwock

    Forum Mod Member

    Did you get the reaction you were looking for? If so, why did you bring up your earlygame read in D3? If not, why did you drop it?

    I'll give you this; that's a legitimate question. At first I thought it was unrelated, but it's not entirely unrelated. It's still not something you pursued any further, though — I'm looking for a bit more than one additional question, a few pages later, without any specific reference to your earlier questions that you say you were still expecting a reaction to.

    Did you leave it to D2? Looking back on my re-read, I don't think you brought it up again after that till D3. I don't buy the whole "there are other cases to deal with;" that would have been valid if you had made any reference to Amici still being a viable elimination after the Celever flip, but instead you pivoted immediately to bbninjas on D2.

    Okay but that's problematic. You see how that's problematic, right? You said in #180 that you "completely agree" with Amici's sentiment that lurker elims are "out of the question" and only "on the table" if "we're dead in the water." I cannot see for the life of me how you got from there to voting Celever. Noting that it wasn't the smartest move in hindsight doesn't erase the fact that you did something directly contradictory to your voting ethos on D1.
     
  17. scattered mind Competitive VG Forums Mod
    scattered mind

    Forum Mod Member

    I just really want this day to end and see who was the scum so I can applaud them. Seriously good game.

    lily voting Celever- I don’t see it indicative. If town lily could have simply wanted to make a vote. If scum lily would simply want to join the consensus.
     
  18. Jabberwock #Jovimohnaeliackvid
    Jabberwock

    Forum Mod Member

    He explained the Lily one significantly after that post time-wise, the Eph one only in terms of "they're chaotic," and the Vom one not at all.
    scattered said in #180 in no uncertain terms that he "completely agreed" with being against eliminating a lurker. To vote Cel later isn't just having missed the context of the rest of the thread; it goes against his very mindset.
    Not consistently — he only asked Amici one tangentially related question after that, and did not mention either case again until D3.
    That's fair; the "yes please" thing is weird as all hell but I agree that it's NAI.
    Plus this.
     
  19. Jabberwock #Jovimohnaeliackvid
    Jabberwock

    Forum Mod Member

    You mean this @Vom? I know Lily was town, but I don't know her specific motivations. There is literally nothing I can say about anything she's done that you should assign any credence to anyway. As town or as scum, it just comes down to speculation, and either way I would spin her behavior in a townie light.
     
  20. Jabberwock #Jovimohnaeliackvid
    Jabberwock

    Forum Mod Member

    Not only is there not much basis for a townread, there's extravagant basis for a scumread. Caring about his progression is ultimately NAI and the Mega buddying thing is WIFOM, but those aren't the main points on him anyway — did you read my ISO on him?
     
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