Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom

[Jabberwock]

@Jabberwock -

As I explained - I think the Mariano case in itself is not good- it only comes as an interesting case if Jplap is scum. And even then , it is quite a stretch.

When Mariano voted randomly using Random.org, the main complain was that such a random vote would not do its job to yield comments from the votes player because they know it was just random. Then Jplap (the voted player) comes and response to the vote. The response itself seems somewhat forced to me, and that is why I think it might have been staged to defend Mariano, who is Jplap’s scumbuddy.

The logical thing to do was to lynch Jplap to find it out, as Jplap was later on more scummy thanks to other things. However, because Jplap claimed an ability to ask the host a game setup question, and the idea that through that it is possible to utilize that to town’s advantage in the case that Jplap was town, there was the thought to lynch the second scummy player for now, so we can get the answer from Jplap to any question we decide.

Then a lot of other things happened-a lot of good points were made that lynching Mariano without sufficient evident while Jplap has more evidence is silly, because getting an answer about the game setup does not necessarily make it worth to lose a possible townie. Also, eevee started that weird indie not really claim that got all the attention to him. But at that point I was pretty sold on lynching Jplap if it only came down to him or Mariano.

I'm good with that answer actually. Still want to see @NinjaPenguin's.

Am I the only one suspicious of Keeper because of this post? If he speaks the truth, then he basically just told scum to not kill him this night. In my eyes, it looks more like a "don't lynch me, because I am helpful if not lynched" claim, which looks more scummy to me than WIFOM.

Having said that, if Keeper flips town then I would be pretty sure that jplap is scum.

It's worth bearing in mind, but there's zero reason to lynch Keeper for the sake of information on jplap.

I am even more unimpressed by Celever trying to lead the town (i.e. "We'll pick off where we left off."), and presenting the Jplap lynch without any evidence of re-evaluation (despite the mislynch and entering more informed into a new day).

What new information did we gain going into this day? The roz lynch and jplap lynch were p much independent of each other; neither gave much information on the other.

I am widely unimpressed by the town lynching Roz because he 'slipped' and said that [his role] benefited the death of townies, even though it would be foolish for any independent / mafian to say this (and as evident by last game, Roz is no fool). Then town tried to lynch Roz because he didn't explicitly claim being innocent, even though saying this would indicate nothing because people can lie (and as evident by last game, Roz lies). Then town (tried) to force Roz into claiming his role even though role claiming is a last resort beneficial only if someone is a doctor (or a like role), and Roz was not in a position that might warrant this.

Ehh idk about that. Slips are obviously a genuine thing, and it was definitely weird that roz didn't make an effort to defend himself.

The fact that Drac stated who shouldn't be lynched, but not who should, is solid evidence for the classic lack-of-commitment that always shows through in Drac's play as scum.

Idk about that either. Last time I played with Drac-as-scum he picked one player and tunneled them for like three days straight. I don't think his scummeta is necessarily any less committed than his townmeta.

 

[Celever]

First thing's first bb: why were posts #511 and #512 posted in the wrong order?

I am even more unimpressed by Celever trying to lead the town (i.e. "We'll pick off where we left off."), and presenting the Jplap lynch without any evidence of re-evaluation (despite the mislynch and entering more informed into a new day).

While ordinarily I dismiss meta, this isn't a traditional meta defense: you know that regardless of alignment I don't edit my posts to adjust tone. And the only time that would be relevant is if I were intentionally using "we" to try and gain subliminal favour with the town, which I haven't done for 6 years so it'd be a bit wild if I decided to start now. So eh.

The first thing I'm gonna tackle in your next post is your "FoSes" because I've never seen a list of weaker "scumtells" in my life.

FOS at the following players for tunneling // sheeping this wagon: Celever (confirmation bias, equates unhelpfulness == scum, discounting 'evidence'), Aqua (discounting 'evidence' + sheeping), Keeper (out of context, classic tunnel, ridicule), quaking (sheep). Borderline on Mariano (sheep) / scattered (tunnel).​

​

Not to be that guy but the reason I was pushing roz was I had a gut indie-read on him. The fact it was spot on makes me happy.

Plus, it validates me telling NP that new indies don't reach mid-game. So thanks for that.

Nup, not confirmation bias because everyone thought he claimed indie. Even his main supporter, NP, thought he claimed indie; he just thought roz had reason for doing it. It's all well coming in with hindsight and saying "wow y'all are dumb for thinking he was indie", but it's going to fall on deaf ears because we all thought the same thing, and that's for good reason.

OK I'll adjust the story:
Police: "Did you murder this man?"
Murderer: "I never said I did"
Police: "Well, did you?"
Murderer: "I haven't said I did"
Police: "Did you not murder this man"
Murderer: "I haven't said either way"

That's both what's cryptic and incriminating about your stance depending on outlook. Either way, it's not towny behaviour.

Nah I stand by this one. Town have no reason to be cryptic beyond specific circumstances (namely breadcrumbing) which roz wasn't doing. So he was honestly being more scummy than he was being unhelpful.

Okay, last try.

I'm town.

That's not enough at this point. Post your Role PM in the thread and claim.

Yeah, roz, as much as I would like to keep you because you're still quite new here, you've dug yourself quite a hole that is harder to get out of than just saying, "I'm town." My boy is gonna stay.

Ah yes, the evidence of "I'm town". I think I speak for both of us when I say sorry for discrediting the clear keystone of the whole defence.

If you reread everything you would notice that I did not start the whole 3rd party thing, lel

3rd party role?

Around 86 times.

This is 87th time.

Oops I found the contradiction.

This post wasn't taken out of context. And even if it was, reposting the post where roz did discuss being third party (and largely alluded to the credibility of the indie read everyone shared on him) discredited roz's claimed that he never brought up being indie -- which Keeper literally quoted at this time -- and so was a useful, town-minded post to bring up in the thread anyway.

You still haven't denied being indie, and at this point if you did I wouldn't believe you.

This was the attitude of the entire playerbase, including town, at the time. The conversation was "is he harmful indie or not", not "is he indie or not" because he was cryptic with it for such an extended period of time that it was the only reasonable conclusion. It's none of our faults that roz basically claimed and refused to deny something he wasn't. Trying to say individuals are scummy for that is flagrantly wrong.

Not quoting Keeper's ridicule cos long but since when was ridicule something worthy of a FoS?

I like the roz lynch right now, but I'm waiting until a vote count is posted to place my vote, since I don't want a premature hammer. While we're on the question suggestions, what do you guys think of "Is the night kill able to be blocked without a doctor?" Mariano's question is fine, but I feel like PMJ might veto it, since it would be too powerful, since all town who have QTs could then unconditionally trust eachother. Would this work as a back-up? It could come in handy if there's no nightkill during a night, and potentially provide a way of catching scum if they are blocked.

Technically. But tunneling is the weakest scumtell out there so it's not worth putting stock into. Why is quaking's tunnel worthy of a FoS but not the other tunnels/sheeping which you said are only borderline FoS?

I g2g but will respond to more later. You can't come into the game on Day 2 and tell us we all messed up on Day 1. It was the obvious lynch.

And your "case" on GM Drac sucks but again I'll post again later.

 

[Zone Q11]

It's worth bearing in mind, but there's zero reason to lynch Keeper for the sake of information on jplap.

Hm... Fair point.

Well then, back to the main topic... Actually, my main topic was going to be about Quaking, but seeing as he wants to get subbed, I don't think it is worth it to preach further onto him.
...welp! Time to play the waiting game again. For jplap's answers.

 

[Scattered mind]

Hm... Fair point.

Well then, back to the main topic... Actually, my main topic was going to be about Quaking, but seeing as he wants to get subbed, I don't think it is worth it to preach further onto him.
...welp! Time to play the waiting game again. For jplap's answers.

Thing is, I am starting to suspect Jplap has decided to quit the game. He has not posted since late D1 after conveying frustration about getting blamed every game, and that makes me think he might be town frustrated from getting blamed and dropping from the game for it. As scum, I would expect him to become mute, but only for the rest of D1, not up until now. Becoming mute for strategy is something you do as scum to contribute to the scum win con. Becoming mute to the point where you risk a modkill from a very serious GM is not a strategy. It’s giving up.

Regardless, I think waiting for his answer is pointless. We should focus on getting to the point where we have at least two options to lynch towards the end of the day.

I need to read back, as I think most of us need to atm, and see what we got. I guess we can look for possible connections between players, the NP-Celever wall fight, and any notable post that can raise an eyebrow for meta/contradiction/sus intention.

 

[Keeper of Night]

I am so beyond happy we get Celv vs bb for my game back. Let me get popcorn.

Am I the only one suspicious of Keeper because of this post? If he speaks the truth, then he basically just told scum to not kill him this night. In my eyes, it looks more like a don't lynch me, because I am helpful if not lynched claim, which looks more scummy to me than WIFOM.

I claimed bomb yesterday already, no reason to back down from that. It's a mind game, see.

I am widely unimpressed by the town lynching Roz because he 'slipped' and said that [his role] benefited the death of townies, even though it would be foolish for any independent / mafian to say this (and as evident by last game, Roz is no fool).

Having not played last game, I can say Roz very much seemed the fool to me in this one. I was happy with his lynch.

Then town tried to lynch Roz because he didn't explicitly claim being innocent, even though saying this would indicate nothing because people can lie (and as evident by last game, Roz lies).

He had no reason to be as cryptic as he was about anything. Both the truth and lying are pretty straight-forward, he decided not to use either of them.

Then town (tried) to force Roz into claiming his role even though role claiming is a last resort beneficial only if someone is a doctor (or a like role), and Roz was not in a position that might warrant this.

Oh no yeah, he was. Role claiming is a useful tool regardless of how you slice it. If nothing else it would give us more information to discuss before his lynch. But just like any other useful information, Roz refused to give it to us.
We had no reason not to lynch him. Literally. Because he had claimed indie and refused to say otherwise. That's not something you just leave alone.

FOS at the following players for tunneling // sheeping this wagon:

Celever (confirmation bias, equates unhelpfulness == scum, discounting 'evidence')

Confirmation bias means nothing. If you're right you're right.
Unhelpfulness does not equal scum. Refusing to ever be helpful at any point, though, is a strong indicator.
...If you think somebody saying I'm town is evidence after a full game day of implying otherwise then you need to double-check the meaning of that word.

Aqua (discounting 'evidence' + sheeping)

Aqua was scummy as heck before any of this, but he got subbed out, didn't he? Was it you or Luis that took his place?

Keeper (out of context, classic tunnel, ridicule)

I believe the context was he said he never claimed indie. Now with that in mind try to read the post again.
It was in direct response to Roz and Celv and their back and forth about anti town roles/abilities. He hadn't denied being indie, and kept insisting about his ability. Being the basis for his responses. He needed better context for that, which he never gave.
Ridicule is kinda my jam. Maybe you noticed.

quaking (sheep). Borderline on Mariano (sheep) / scattered (tunnel).

Same ol' reads. If everyone thinks somebody is scum, ain't a reason not to attack him. None of your reads are worth reading into.​

I am also widely unimpressed by the town trying to lynch Jplap because he asked about indies, even though it clearly would have been in the mafian's best interest to confirm the existence of - or lack thereof - certain power roles*.

Unless you're new and don't know what to look for. Plus he claimed a potentially very powerful role (again, depends on all context, because like I said before it could also be totally useless) and lived the night. And now I can't see his ability either. Everything about him is fishy.

Then, the town (i.e. Celever) discounted this reasoning as WIFOM, even though a mafian is more likely to ask about indies is just as WIFOMy. And then, the town decided that Jplap 'slipped' because he speculated that their is possible a mafian that can identify player's abilities, even though players regularly speculate without anyone considering this a problem (in fact, this is evidence of players being misinformed, unless proven coincidental) .

This is a fair point. Unfortunately it's not the only reason we're suspicious of him.

FOS at the following players for tunneling // sheeping this wagon:

Celever (narrow thinking, selective, tunnel, absolutes), scattered (absolutes, narrow thinking, unreasonable expectations), mariano (sheep), quaking (sheeping through a flimsy side-point) + any more sheepers that I missed.

Not going through this again because I'm gonna assume it's more of the same nitpicking from before, but good on you for paying such close attention to the game. Actually impressed.

*Responding to Cel and scattered, indies are typically consider 'town' for the sake of wincons; and unlike what has been implied, scum can hunt indies without having any information about them (and to keep options open, they would prefer minimal information). It is actually a pro-town move for an innocent to ask about indies, because it informs the amount of effort town needs to invest into scumhunting.

Likewise, it's also most helpful for scum to learn about indies since they are potentially (and on PB, usually) the only other faction with a kill. Meaning, the only wild card that could really hurt mafia. Watching the lynch is part of the game, but you can't deal with random night kills.
That doesn't seem to be the case this game, but this was on Night 0, mind.

I don't believe Jplap asking for indie is indicative of alignment, so I can't believe it's fair to try and paint that as being a town or scum move over and over and over. It gets us nowhere. It's helpful for EVERYONE to learn about indies, no matter how you dice it.
However, his behavior would have led him to an early lynch regardless if it hadn't been for meat shield Roz. Now Jplap has a chance to give us his info, explain why I can't see him, and we can move on from there.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Why are quote tags so easy to mess up?

*Responding to Cel and scattered, indies are typically consider 'town' for the sake of wincons; and unlike what has been implied, scum can hunt indies without having any information about them (and to keep options open, they would prefer minimal information). It is actually a pro-town move for an innocent to ask about indies, because it informs the amount of effort town needs to invest into scumhunting.

Likewise, it's also most helpful for scum to learn about indies since they are potentially (and on PB, usually) the only other faction with a kill. Meaning, the only wild card that could really hurt mafia. Watching the lynch is part of the game, but you can't deal with random night kills.
That doesn't seem to be the case this game, but this was on Night 0, mind.

I don't believe Jplap asking for indie is indicative of alignment, so I can't believe it's fair to try and paint that as being a town or scum move over and over and over. It gets us nowhere. It's helpful for EVERYONE to learn about indies, no matter how you dice it.
However, his behavior would have led him to an early lynch regardless if it hadn't been for meat shield Roz. Now Jplap has a chance to give us his info, explain why I can't see him, and we can move on from there.

 

[Zone Q11]

Thing is, I am starting to suspect Jplap has decided to quit the game. He has not posted since late D1 after conveying frustration about getting blamed every game, and that makes me think he might be town frustrated from getting blamed and dropping from the game for it. As scum, I would expect him to become mute, but only for the rest of D1, not up until now. Becoming mute for strategy is something you do as scum to contribute to the scum win con. Becoming mute to the point where you risk a modkill from a very serious GM is not a strategy. It’s giving up.

Regardless, I think waiting for his answer is pointless. We should focus on getting to the point where we have at least two options to lynch towards the end of the day.

I need to read back, as I think most of us need to atm, and see what we got. I guess we can look for possible connections between players, the NP-Celever wall fight, and any notable post that can raise an eyebrow for meta/contradiction/sus intention.

-> I see. ...isn't this bad though? ...I'll ask at my home forum if anyone wants to volunteer. Hopefully A5G_Reaper (a.k.a. Death, the GM) has the time and motivation...

I claimed bomb yesterday already, no reason to back down from that. It's a mind game, see.

Oh. I see.
...that is still NAI though.
But so far you have been progressive and that is a good trait regardless of alignment...
Hrm... I will check for anyone else before coming back to you then. Because so far, except for Luis the inactive, you are my best shot. I mean, there is Drac as well, but I don't know his meta enough to judge whether he really is behaving different then when he isn't bothered with RL.

Aqua was scummy as heck before any of this, but he got subbed out, didn't he? Was it you or Luis that took his place?

It's on the first post. Luis subbed Nick. bb subbed T_E.

It's helpful for EVERYONE to learn about indies, no matter how you dice it.

Try to convince that to Celever. I won't even try to do that because I know that I will lose in any form of discussion.

Now Jplap has a chance to give us his info, explain why I can't see him, and we can move on from there.

Uh... What scattered mind said: It seems that he has given up. ...having said that, it seems that he was online until Tuesday, so we have no confirmation about him throwing the towel.

 

[Celever]

FOS at the following players for tunneling // sheeping this wagon: Celever (narrow thinking, selective, tunnel, absolutes), scattered (absolutes, narrow thinking, unreasonable expectations), mariano (sheep), quaking (sheeping through a flimsy side-point) + any more sheepers that I missed.​

​

And actually asking about the indie is the better question to ask than asking for a seer as scum. The first thing scum need to do is get numbers straight before they start role speculating.

##VOTE: jplap

Out of all the possible questions you could ask, such as how many scums are there, you chose the one question scum will definitely would prioritize.

"I disagree with you" =/= narrow thinking =/= a scumtell. Like, I don't even know what you're attempting to paint here, but A) it's not narrow thinking in the first place; even if you don't think the question was scummy you can't dismiss people who think it was scummy as just not being receptive to other ideas (kettle black) and B) narrow thinking has never signified mafian allegiance. Ever.

If I were scum, the first question I would ask would be if there is a seer role in this game.

WIFOM

Not scummy with cause. If someone said "2+2=53" you have cause to dismiss it. Equally if someone makes a defence of no credibility, we can chuck it. And that was exclusively WIFOM with no worth beyond -- because of who said it, mind you, and so when you pointed at other people doing WIFOM it wasn't, because we were in a different position.

But knowing that there is a seer I think would benefit from scum more because you never know if one of your scum buddies has a way to discover who that is now that you know there is one.

Niiiiiice scumslip. Now we know one of the mafia's roles, too.

I think you and NP need refreshers on what tunneling is. I mean the act of linking to a singular post and saying "this is a tunnel" is literally inherently flawed, because tunneling is only identifiable via a pattern of several posts. And either way is a false accusation and is in the same string of posts as where bb says I "attacked everyone" which is mutually exclusive with tunneling, so which is it? :L

And honestly I don't even know what you mean by absolutes so I'm skipping that rather than assuming what you mean and letting you rethink.

Even if I know that there is an indie role, I still have no clue who it could possibly be

Again, you would know now exactly how many townies there are to kill. And again, you don’t comment on the fact you as town would be a lot more interested in how many scums there are, or other obviously better questions for town:

Can scum kill twice somehow?
Do all scums know each other?
Does any scum have a chat with any townie?

This post was made under the pretense that jplap is mafia which was something both parties were cognizant of (and was quite obvious so I'm not sure how you missed it). Understanding that it was means that I think what you're going for is avoided? But honestly who knows what you were going for again, because there are no unreasonable expectations in this post.

I cannot agree more with this.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: jplap

The question jplap asked is far more helpful to scum than for the town. Town should always have in mind the win condition and do things to accomplish it, how does that help us to achieve it? And even worse, why did you make it public if you are town? Scum now knows it.

##Unvote
##Vote: jplap

I'm agreeing with a lot of the reasoning I'm seeing about jplap, especially the scumslip. Something I haven't seen brought up though is the timing of when jplap revealed the part of his role. It was already after a little bit of pressure from RVS, so I could see it being a move from him to divert suspicion from himself early on, by showing others that he can be trusted. It's kind of a weak point, but I think it's worth being brought up, after a couple of stronger points against jplap (ability usage, potential scumslip), have already been brought up by others.

Sheeping / Bandwagoning is absolutely OK on the first few phases and is still one of the weakest scumtells in the later ones. There wasn't enough material for everyone backing the vote to have different reasoning for doing so and that's OK. Why do you think that's scummy?

 

[Celever]

Try to convince that to Celever. I won't even try to do that because I know that I will lose in any form of discussion.

I understand that it does have some use for town but has much more use for mafia, especially on Night 0. The first thing the town has to get straight is the mafia team and the first thing the mafia has to get straight is how their threats are dispersed. So later on the town cares about the indie but care about the mafia more first, whereas mafia care about the indie first and then power role hunting towards the later stages. That's just the basic strategy. So the issue with jplap was timing.

 

[Scattered mind]

Jplap and I care about tone

Post from D1. Can you explain why you included Jplap caring about tone? I am aware it is out of context, but I’m reading back and I can’t see any post where Jplap showed any interest in tone.

 

[Scattered mind]

Lately, my actions as PR have only killed more town than scum, so if I have a killing PR (which I thankfully don't have this time), I will abstain.

You claimed to not have a killing power role. It is a subtle claim, but kinda weird coming off a player who currently blames another player for a similar reason. I also kinda confused from the wording. Can you clarify overall why you made that comment? What are you going to abstain from?

 

[Zone Q11]

I understand that it does have some use for town but has much more use for mafia, especially on Night 0. The first thing the town has to get straight is the mafia team and the first thing the mafia has to get straight is how their threats are dispersed. So later on the town cares about the indie but care about the mafia more first, whereas mafia care about the indie first and then power role hunting towards the later stages. That's just the basic strategy. So the issue with jplap was timing.

But... if it is about the amount of scum, then didn't NP already explain that it should be three? His argument of "four is too much" sounds reasonable to me. Don't we have any other setting-based scum-related questions? ...oh wait, we already asked that. ...time to wait again.

You claimed to not have a killing power role. It is a subtle claim, but kinda weird coming off a player who currently blames another player for a similar reason. I also kinda confused from the wording. Can you clarify overall why you made that comment? What are you going to abstain from?

You kinda put my words out of context, but the reason why I posted that part is basically to suppport the first half of the paragraph which says that I do not trust my own reads lately. In other words, it literally was meant as a support. The subtle claim was a slip of the tongue, I suppose.

As for the blame on Keeper... Yeah, I have nothing on that. I am kind of looking for anything to blame at this point.

Let's see what I have...
-> Celever and you are strong town in my eyes because you are scumhunting with progression in your mind.
-> NP and Keeper are odd cases where I can see them as scum, but feels as if they could be town based on their reasons for their actions. (Though that last part is somewhat less on Keeper because his alignment is unknown to me and I have this mindset where I keep seeing him as scum even though logic says that it is WIFOM at best. ...sigh, time will tell.)

-> Oddly, this mindset doesn't apply to NP. Perhaps it is because he didn't roleclaim? Or perhaps it is a matter of choices with words? I don't know myself.​

-> Jabberwock, bb and Mariano are basically a null read for me because I can't seem to read anything strongly alignment indicative from them. (Well... bb just came in with that post, but he has yet to respond to Celever's reactions.)
-> Quaking is going to be subbed or modkilled, but I highly suspect him to be either scum or bandwagonner. (If he somehow survives without explaining more, then I will be sure to vote him immediately.)

-> ...after a re-check, apparently he did answer the questions that Mariano gave so I have to re-evaluate them. Mariano has more town points from me simply for questioning my suspect (because I suck at questioning and pressuring people), while I can't help but agree with Quaking's answers. ...except Answer 2. Answering any question with "it is role-indicated" seems too suspicious. The question Quaking had was "Can night kill be blocked without doctor?", so... Quaking is a roleblocker? -still, the question fails to help town and practically helped scum instead.​

-> Drac's reason to be semi-active is RL. (...I think I kinda need to re-check him as well.)
-> Jplap has yet to talk.

...yeah, I am at a loss at what to do here.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Do you still feel like it's a good idea, and if not, what changed your mind?

No. Quaking is scummier. I also now like BB's case on Drac ftr but I don't even remember him as town at this point tbh.

@Jabberwock I actually thought a lot more was revealed in the discussion but I want to spend some time going over an reviewing it. There were definite potential mafian plays by NP.

"Definite potential mafia plays" are literally everybody lol.

Well then, back to the main topic... Actually, my main topic was going to be about Quaking, but seeing as he wants to get subbed, I don't think it is worth it to preach further onto him.

Give us your thoughts. Just cause he's subbed out doesn't mean his slot no longer exists.

I'm gonna look at BB's quotes on his FoS statements when I get the time but that isn't for a while.

Zone what you can do is give us some quotes to support your reads and some detail on why you think so. You can also place a vote and begin to push it.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Post from D1. Can you explain why you included Jplap caring about tone? I am aware it is out of context, but I’m reading back and I can’t see any post where Jplap showed any interest in tone.

That's my lack of punctuation. I was talking about the wagon formation and Jplap relating to it. Me caring about tone was a seperate thing; who knows what Jplap thinks about it.

 

[Luispipe8]

Oh snap, I forgot this was here :'v
Anyways I /did/ read D1 but I need to catch up this latest posts, I'll be back in hopefully a couple hours (tomorrow max, promise >.<)

 

[Luispipe8]

Aqua was scummy as heck before any of this, but he got subbed out, didn't he? Was it you or Luis that took his place?

Ok, first, as someone already said, I subbed in for Nick, SO...

I'm not saying this to "get rid" of whatever he did D1, but simply put, I'm NOT going to respond for whatever Nick did/said D1 simply because I'm not in his head. If/When you want to use that as evidence of some sort please, go ahead, but I won't respond to something I don't even know why was written. Everything else and /my/ behavior I'll gladly answer as usual.

@bbninjas and @Luispipe8 - what do you think about Jplap’s case? Also, are you up to date with everything that happened D1?

In my POV, I'd actually would have given jplap the benefit of the doubt and let him live so we can get more info, as trivial as it could be. His apparent absense in a bummer, to be quite honest, and I'm hesitant to even vote for him considering he hasn't even posted since yesterday so he should be mk'd rather sooner than later.

Imo there wasn't that much of a reason for Keeper to claim there. He could very easily have said "it's relevant to my role" and people would've left him alone; that happened often enough in your own most recent game.

*Emphasis on the bold*
HA. HAHA. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You and me both that's never going to happen; we'd probably ask the hell out of someone saying "I need that info for my role", depending on how deep the info is.

I am even more unimpressed by Celever trying to lead the town (i.e. "We'll pick off where we left off."), and presenting the Jplap lynch without any evidence of re-evaluation (despite the mislynch and entering more informed into a new day).

Ditto. I'm sorta getting used to it but not necessarily liking it.

Again, I think that the problem is the timing. If it was the second or third question then I’d agree, but when that’s the first thing that comes to your mind it is more scummy. If anything, asking about how many mafs are there is way more helping for town to know how much effort they need to invest in scumhunting.

I 100% agree on this, though. Blatantly echoing, there were various more useful questions that we could have had answered in order to help the town. Asking directly about the Indie(s) is really weird considering there's still a chance our wincon can be fulfilled simultaneously with the indie. That makes me think jplap was either a) scum trying to get ahold of even more info, or b) An indie trying to find out if there were others like him. Although the likeliness of b) is rather low since we'd have (3? most likely, by assumptions made by a some of you yesterday) mafians and 2 separate indies in a game this size would be almost null.

and it was definitely weird that roz didn't make an effort to defend himself.

Time to comment on the roz situation...

He had no reason to be as cryptic as he was about anything.

Yes, I agree he was being way more cryptic than he should have. But it took just that "slip" for everyone to jump in an insane bukkake all over him and asking stuff agressively that, regarless of whatever he said, nobody changed his mind. He said "I'm town" and you all had him cornered at gun point asking him to claim, like that would have changed a thing. I myself would have at least waited and, honestly, not placed a vote until he started being clear about things (WIFOM possibly, but considering I'm a sub I guess I get to say my stance). Either way, he /wasn't/ being clear and got lynched for that, but I do have to say that it was a desperate/agressive lynch and all to avoid lynching jplap. I don't remember all very clearly but I'd look a bit more into those that drove the lynch heavily.

About quaking, I'd rather wait to know if he's being subbed out or directly modkilled (to see if it's even worth it), but his rather shallow contribution yesterday /is/ worrysome.


Anyways, I'll probably keep reading during the night and post whatever I find sometime tomorrow.

 

[Jabberwock]

No. Quaking is scummier. I also now like BB's case on Drac ftr but I don't even remember him as town at this point tbh.

Do you still believe the Mariano case has any basis in reality? Not whether there's a better lynch, but whether it deserves to be considered at all.

*Emphasis on the bold*
HA. HAHA. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You and me both that's never going to happen; we'd probably ask the hell out of someone saying "I need that info for my role", depending on how deep the info is.

Nope. It would actually be rolefishing if one did ask the hell out of them in that instance.

 

[Luispipe8]

It would actually be rolefishing if one did ask the hell out of them in that instance.

Mostly it depends how sensitive the info is. It basically would be an argument of "who is rolefishing who", if the original asker's question is more sensitive than its reasons. But in my personal case I wouldn't give out /any/ info with a "it's for my role" purpose. All we know there's an anti-town role that benefits on trivial questions (example, a Pokémon setting that gives a scum an additional kill if they know all players that are gym leaders or something like that). I've seen a lot myself in past games to have a reasonable paranoia for that sort of stuff.

 

[Jabberwock]

Mostly it depends how sensitive the info is. It basically would be an argument of "who is rolefishing who", if the original asker's question is more sensitive than its reasons. But in my personal case I wouldn't give out /any/ info with a "it's for my role" purpose. All we know there's an anti-town role that benefits on trivial questions (example, a Pokémon setting that gives a scum an additional kill if they know all players that are gym leaders or something like that). I've seen a lot myself in past games to have a reasonable paranoia for that sort of stuff.

So you'd a) ask the hell out of somebody who isn't sharing info, and b) keep similar info close to your chest if it were you in that situation?

 

[PMJ]

It is 7 to lynch. Numbers in parentheses represent the post number of the vote.

@Professor_jplap - @Celever (475)
@quakingpunch73 - Ability Effect (473), NP (477)
@NinjaPenguin - @Jabberwock (498)
@GM DracLord - @bbninjas (514)

Not voting: @Keeper of Night, @scattered mind, Drac, quaking, @Mariano11887, @Luispipe8, jplap, @Zone Q11

This is current as of post 539. Everyone is tagged for activity. Reminder that if two or more players are tied for most votes at the end of the day, there will be no lynch.

Day 2 ends Sunday, August 26, at 4 PM CDT (Timer) or whenever someone is lynched.

I am still looking for a sub for quaking. If you know anyone interested, have them contact me ASAP.